The drip on this Brady case shows how awful a commish Roger Goodell truly is | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

The drip on this Brady case shows how awful a commish Roger Goodell truly is

retro44 said:
Seriously,what does Hillary have to do with a just cause action the NFL has a right to do.

WAWA...Kraft I paid a million bucks for the suspension(WAWAWAWA) to go away...WAWAWAWAWAWAWAWA
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Do you even know the facts of the case? I seriously 100% doubt you know the actual facts of the case. Even Patriot haters admit this isn't a just cause action because their is no precedent and the action likely exceeded the bounds of the Collective Bargaining Agreement and is now in the Federal Court to decide on the merits. Being happy the Patriots are getting punished is different from just cause action. If you are accused of a crime you have to prove it. The NFL has not proven any ball manipulation took place during the alleged game. My god I doubt you even realize this.

If you want to have the opinion something happened that is a legitimate opinion because it is your right. However, beyond that you are legitimately making me laugh by how you don't even know and want to engage. It is funny. Thank you for making me laugh after a very busy 3 days.

I bring up Hillary Clinton because I doubt you will call her a cheater or criminal because she didn't voluntarily hand over her email server. Just like Tom Brady was UNDER NO OBLIGATION to provide his phone to the NFL. You label one a cheater and probably make excuses for the other and show your bias. By showing that bias you show you don't care about the merits you just want to support the side your own and not interested in being fair.
 
I hope you are not losing sleep over this as it appears to be...who cares. He's a full blown cheater.

I was just working out near the cheaters stadium and many fans still think Hernandez is innocent because Kraft said Aaron told him he was. So is Issa going to hold hearing on spygate now?
 
retro44 said:
I hope you are not losing sleep over this as it appears to be...who cares. He's a full blown cheater.

I was just working out near the cheaters stadium and many fans still think Hernandez is innocent because Kraft said Aaron told him he was. So is Issa going to hold hearing on spygate now?
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Wow, this is just loaded with some stuff. I won't comment on because I don't want to get punished by the moderators on this site. I will just say if you actually think more than 1 or 2 idiots think Hernandez is innocent you really show hatred of the Patriots and their fans that is off the charts.

Like seriously I can't even response to this how I want too. I am seriously not going to respond to another post you ever make me because of how off the charts your 3rd sentence is.
 
Alsacs said:
Wow, this is just loaded with some stuff. I won't comment on because I don't want to get punished by the moderators on this site. I will just say if you actually think more than 1 or 2 idiots think Hernandez is innocent you really show hatred of the Patriots and their fans that is off the charts.

Like seriously I can't even response to this how I want too. I am seriously not going to respond to another post you ever make me because of how off the charts your 3rd sentence is.
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Alsacs said:
Do you even know the facts of the case? I seriously 100% doubt you know the actual facts of the case. Even Patriot haters admit this isn't a just cause action because their is no precedent and the action likely exceeded the bounds of the Collective Bargaining Agreement and is now in the Federal Court to decide on the merits. Being happy the Patriots are getting punished is different from just cause action. If you are accused of a crime you have to prove it. The NFL has not proven any ball manipulation took place during the alleged game. My god I doubt you even realize this.

If you want to have the opinion something happened that is a legitimate opinion because it is your right. However, beyond that you are legitimately making me laugh by how you don't even know and want to engage. It is funny. Thank you for making me laugh after a very busy 3 days.

I bring up Hillary Clinton because I doubt you will call her a cheater or criminal because she didn't voluntarily hand over her email server. Just like Tom Brady was UNDER NO OBLIGATION to provide his phone to the NFL. You label one a cheater and probably make excuses for the other and show your bias. By showing that bias you show you don't care about the merits you just want to support the side your own and not interested in being fair.
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Everyone realizes Brady did not have to turn over his cell phone. I'm sure you are aware of this, but perception becomes reality. Destroying the phone reeks of destroying evidence, even if no one had the right to that evidence. Add to that Spygate, and you understand why the entire world (outside of NE) labels the Pats cheaters. Nothing good will come of taking this to court. There will be no quarter given, internally, to the Pats ever again. Brady and the Pats got caught doing something they shouldn't have, no matter how trivial. Would have been easier to say, "Oops, sorry. It won't happen again". Take your punishment (which surely would have been reduced to one or two games) and move on. In the court of public opinion, Brady has damaged his legacy, regardless of how many rings he has. Again, perception is reality.
 
orange79 said:
Everyone realizes Brady did not have to turn over his cell phone. I'm sure you are aware of this, but perception becomes reality. Destroying the phone reeks of destroying evidence, even if no one had the right to that evidence. Add to that Spygate, and you understand why the entire world (outside of NE) labels the Pats cheaters. Nothing good will come of taking this to court. There will be no quarter given, internally, to the Pats ever again. Brady and the Pats got caught doing something they shouldn't have, no matter how trivial. Would have been easier to say, "Oops, sorry. It won't happen again". Take your punishment (which surely would have been reduced to one or two games) and move on. In the court of public opinion, Brady has damaged his legacy, regardless of how many rings he has. Again, perception is reality.
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First,thank you for an actual intelligent response and not just running your mouth firing shots without facts.

Second, you can think the Patriots cheated, but the NFL has not proved Brady and the Pats did anything. I hope you can agree to that. It is a reasonable opinion to feel they cheated, but the NFL has not proven any air was taken out of the balls by the NE Patriots. The NFL is measuring the air pressures this season in a new policy because they want to understand science. The science in the Wells Report has been debunked as wrong by the non-interested AEI 3rd party.

If the NFL can prove the balls were manipulated by the NE Patriots they deserve to get hammered but the the NFL can not do this. Goodell has played this entire affair as PR relations and what the 31 owners want to rehab his image after the Rice debacle.
 
Alsacs said:
First,thank you for an actual intelligent response and not just running your mouth firing shots without facts.

Second, you can think the Patriots cheated, but the NFL has not proved Brady and the Pats did anything. I hope you can agree to that. It is a reasonable opinion to feel they cheated, but the NFL has not proven any air was taken out of the balls by the NE Patriots. The NFL is measuring the air pressures this season in a new policy because they want to understand science. The science in the Wells Report has been debunked as wrong by the non-interested AEI 3rd party.

If the NFL can prove the balls were manipulated by the NE Patriots they deserve to get hammered but the the NFL can not do this. Goodell has played this entire affair as PR relations and what the 31 owners want to rehab his image after the Rice debacle.
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Agreed - and there is no love lost between the Pats and the other owners. ;)
 
I don't know how the courts handle things that are arbitrated like this, so perhaps someone here knows more...

What I've been reading is that essentially, the courts will not rule on whether or not Brady is innocent. The NFL process determined that he was not, so that's no longer really the issue. The courts will simply be deciding whether or not the appeal process was handled the way it's supposed to be per the CBA. Is that correct?
 
Melancer46 said:
I don't know how the courts handle things that are arbitrated like this, so perhaps someone here knows more...

What I've been reading is that essentially, the courts will not rule on whether or not Brady is innocent. The NFL process determined that he was not, so that's no longer really the issue. The courts will simply be deciding whether or not the appeal process was handled the way it's supposed to be per the CBA. Is that correct?
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The lawsuit is all about procedure now. Brady is likely to file a defamation lawsuit at a later time in MA. That is probably a bargaining chip he can use to try and get the suspension lifted but the NFL likely won't do it and will get sued again in MA court.

This suit rests upon whether the arbitration hearing between the NFL and NFLPA was properly conducted. Courts tend to not overturn arbitrations if they are fair. The NFLPAs lawsuit was brilliantly constructed to show all the flaws in the NFL's arbitration. First, Goodell was an interested witness and refused to recuse himself as the judge of the case. The CBA grants him the power to be the judge but since he was a potential witness he shouldn't have been the judge. Second, the law firm that wrote the "independent" Wells Report sat on the NFL's table during the Brady appeal hearing and conducted all the questioning for the NFL at the hearing. I could list the rest of their suit, but people's opinions are already made up.

I have no problem discussing anything with anyone if they can actually know the facts before the embarrass themselves. You and I have disagreed but I get your position which is fair IMO.
 
Alsacs said:
The lawsuit is all about procedure now. Brady is likely to file a defamation lawsuit at a later time in MA. That is probably a bargaining chip he can use to try and get the suspension lifted but the NFL likely won't do it and will get sued again in MA court.

This suit rests upon whether the arbitration hearing between the NFL and NFLPA was properly conducted. Courts tend to not overturn arbitrations if they are fair. The NFLPAs lawsuit was brilliantly constructed to show all the flaws in the NFL's arbitration. First, Goodell was an interested witness and refused to recuse himself as the judge of the case. The CBA grants him the power to be the judge but since he was a potential witness he shouldn't have been the judge. Second, the law firm that wrote the "independent" Wells Report sat on the NFL's table during the Brady appeal hearing and conducted all the questioning for the NFL at the hearing. I could list the rest of their suit, but people's opinions are already made up.

I have no problem discussing anything with anyone if they can actually know the facts before the embarrass themselves. You and I have disagreed but I get your position which is fair IMO.
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Yeah, I'm more or less just curious to see how this plays out than anything at this point. You'd like to think that Goodell would have been smart enough to not screw up the arbitration process, but then again, we've seen him mess these things up time and time again at this point lol. I think Brady likely is guilty, but that isn't really important anymore.
 
Alsacs said:
The lawsuit is all about procedure now. Brady is likely to file a defamation lawsuit at a later time in MA. That is probably a bargaining chip he can use to try and get the suspension lifted but the NFL likely won't do it and will get sued again in MA court.

This suit rests upon whether the arbitration hearing between the NFL and NFLPA was properly conducted. Courts tend to not overturn arbitrations if they are fair. The NFLPAs lawsuit was brilliantly constructed to show all the flaws in the NFL's arbitration. First, Goodell was an interested witness and refused to recuse himself as the judge of the case. The CBA grants him the power to be the judge but since he was a potential witness he shouldn't have been the judge. Second, the law firm that wrote the "independent" Wells Report sat on the NFL's table during the Brady appeal hearing and conducted all the questioning for the NFL at the hearing. I could list the rest of their suit, but people's opinions are already made up.

I have no problem discussing anything with anyone if they can actually know the facts before the embarrass themselves. You and I have disagreed but I get your position which is fair IMO.
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Who cares,he's guilty and 30 other plus teams feel the same way.

Brady's lawyers did him a total disservice if they even remotely thought he was innocent. His legacy will forever be tarnished as the league/fans really doesn't know how many times he cheated. Even Belicheat backed away from Brady in an interview there after.

All he had to do was turn over paper copies of his texts to the league,but no...... he just wasn't man enough to do it.
 
retro44 said:
Who cares,he's guilty and 30 other plus teams feel the same way.

Brady's lawyers did him a total disservice if they even remotely thought he was innocent. His legacy will forever be tarnished as the league/fans really doesn't know how many times he cheated. Even Belicheat backed away from Brady in an interview there after.

All he had to do was turn over paper copies of his texts to the league,but no... he just wasn't man enough to do it.
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30 other teams mess with balls too -- and Roger overstepped the CBA, and has acted out of the scope of his powers, and given four games to this when the CBA says a $25k fine is it

the NFL is not the Fed --- they cannot go asking for evidence and then punish someone for not complying
 
orangenauburn said:
30 other teams mess with balls too -- and Roger overstepped the CBA, and has acted out of the scope of his powers, and given four games to this when the CBA says a $25k fine is it

the NFL is not the Fed --- they cannot go asking for evidence and then punish someone for not complying
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Logic not need apply in this thread.
 
Alsacs said:
Logic not need apply in this thread.
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I hope you never serve on a jury...tunnel vision with a lack of common sense.

You would never make it on the streets
 
orangenauburn said:
30 other teams mess with balls too -- and Roger overstepped the CBA, and has acted out of the scope of his powers, and given four games to this when the CBA says a $25k fine is it

the NFL is not the Fed --- they cannot go asking for evidence and then punish someone for not complying
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Where in the constitution does it say you can't suspend a player for a total lack of cooperation.

He was messing with the integrity of the game.....
 
orangenauburn said:
30 other teams mess with balls too -- and Roger overstepped the CBA, and has acted out of the scope of his powers, and given four games to this when the CBA says a $25k fine is it

the NFL is not the Fed --- they cannot go asking for evidence and then punish someone for not complying
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I think we have to wait and see to see if Brady's lawyers can really prove Roger overstepped the CBA. I imagine they'll try to pound the $25k fine into the ground; and I imagine Goodell's counter will be that waiting until after inspection, stealing the footballs back, and deflating them post-inspection is much more than an equipment violation. There seems to be a lot of gray area there; I'm pretty sure that rule was meant to be in regards to players not wearing the correct socks for example; not something that gives a player an actual advantage. It'll be interesting to see who wins out on that point.

And if Goodell screwed anything else up regarding the CBA then that point might not even really matter anyways.

I do agree that other teams mess with the balls too, but I'm not sure many do it after the pre-game inspection like the Patriots allegedly did. For example, if we're taking him at his word, I believe Aaron Rodgers said he'll have the ball boys over-inflate the balls and if the refs catch it in their inspection, then so be it. That's drastically different from what the Patriots allegedly did.
 
retro44 said:
I hope you never serve on a jury...tunnel vision with a lack of common sense.

You would never make it on the streets
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I'm not a Pats fan, but I think Brady is getting a raw deal here. I think you should read the defense his team has come up with.

The NFL has been leaking info from the start, and even botched the measuring of the footballs during the Colts game.

1. The used two separate air pressure guages.
2. Some Colts Balls were underinflated.
3. The NFL leaked to ESPN that the Pats balls were underinflated by more than they actually were underinflated.

I mean you can infer that Brady probably did something, but the facts were so botched by Goodell and the NFL, I don't think you can actually prove it was as bad as it was.

If you are a judge or jury I'm not sure you can make a decision that Brady is fully guilty because Goodell and the NFL blew the facts of this case just like he blows every other decision he makes. He makes Gary Bettman look like a good commisioner.
 
Melancer46 said:
I think we have to wait and see to see if Brady's lawyers can really prove Roger overstepped the CBA. I imagine they'll try to pound the $25k fine into the ground; and I imagine Goodell's counter will be that waiting until after inspection, stealing the footballs back, and deflating them post-inspection is much more than an equipment violation. There seems to be a lot of gray area there; I'm pretty sure that rule was meant to be in regards to players not wearing the correct socks for example; not something that gives a player an actual advantage. It'll be interesting to see who wins out on that point.

And if Goodell screwed anything else up regarding the CBA then that point might not even really matter anyways.

I do agree that other teams mess with the balls too, but I'm not sure many do it after the pre-game inspection like the Patriots allegedly did. For example, if we're taking him at his word, I believe Aaron Rodgers said he'll have the ball boys over-inflate the balls and if the refs catch it in their inspection, then so be it. That's drastically different from what the Patriots allegedly did.
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This lawyer explain the NY law pretty well and why Brady has a good argument.
http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2015/08/another-home-field-advantage-for-tom.html

Brady's team has to show evident partiality. They have to show the person administering the arbitration was biased and not fair. Since Goodell administered the hearing that won't be hard when if those goes to court and doesn't settle the NFLPA would argue Goodell was a potential witness and thus couldn't administer a fair proceeding when his testimony was part of the arbitration.

The judge of this case has basically said he wants a settlement by his letter to both sides and demanding Brady/Goodell personally attend the conferences pre-trial to try and resolve the matter. The judge is Judge Berman who was a Clinton appointee so I am sure both sides will know his history and a settlement will likely occur.
 
Alsacs said:
This lawyer explain the NY law pretty well and why Brady has a good argument.
http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2015/08/another-home-field-advantage-for-tom.html

Brady's team has to show evident partiality. They have to show the person administering the arbitration was biased and not fair. Since Goodell administered the hearing that won't be hard when if those goes to court and doesn't settle the NFLPA would argue Goodell was a potential witness and thus couldn't administer a fair proceeding when his testimony was part of the arbitration.

The judge of this case has basically said he wants a settlement by his letter to both sides and demanding Brady/Goodell personally attend the conferences pre-trial to try and resolve the matter. The judge is Judge Berman who was a Clinton appointee so I am sure both sides will know his history and a settlement will likely occur.
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Would you be ok with Brady not being suspended, but fined 4 game checks? Just thinking hypothetically here. I don't think he is completely exonerated in the end.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
Would you be ok with Brady not being suspended, but fined 4 game checks? Just thinking hypothetically here. I don't think he is completely exonerated in the end.
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At this point I would. The NFL isn't going to exonerate because that would cause the empire to become crumbled and really force Goodell to be out. I think this case has shown how awful and power hungry the NFL office is and in 2019 I don't expect Goodell's contract to be extended.

Brady has been accused of cheating. The NFL has not proven any cheating took place during the AFC title game. I have no problem with people thinking there was cheating because that is a fair opinion. Its just like watching game 6 of the NBA 2002 Western conference finals when I think everybody thought cheating took place that game. If the NFL could prove cheating I don't think this stuff happens. The NFL can't prove guilt and wants to cram the biggest penalties on a team and take 25% of Brady's season.

The fact the NFL hasn't corrected the Mortinsen leak and has known about that since January has shown the NFL isn't interested in being fair. Read the email exchanges between the NE legal counsel and the NFL's general council Pash.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-emails-to-nfl-on-leaks-of-false-information/

I don't care about the fine but I want the NFL office to be exposed for their behavior.
 
Alsacs said:
At this point I would. The NFL isn't going to exonerate because that would cause the empire to become crumbled and really force Goodell to be out. I think this case has shown how awful and power hungry the NFL office is and in 2019 I don't expect Goodell's contract to be extended.

Brady has been accused of cheating. The NFL has not proven any cheating took place during the AFC title game. I have no problem with people thinking there was cheating because that is a fair opinion. Its just like watching game 6 of the NBA 2002 Western conference finals when I think everybody thought cheating took place that game. If the NFL could prove cheating I don't think this stuff happens. The NFL can't prove guilt and wants to cram the biggest penalties on a team and take 25% of Brady's season.

The fact the NFL hasn't corrected the Mortinsen leak and has known about that since January has shown the NFL isn't interested in being fair. Read the email exchanges between the NE legal counsel and the NFL's general council Pash.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-emails-to-nfl-on-leaks-of-false-information/

I don't care about the fine but I want the NFL office to be exposed for their behavior.
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I expect the emails in this article to be a huge part of the appeal.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...HPvhkpftVOIfIh7yL/story.html?p1=stream_sports
 
orangenauburn said:
the NFL is not the Fed --- they cannot go asking for evidence and then punish someone for not complying
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Why can't they? It's their club. They decide the rules.
 
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