4th and 3 play was a good call?

[PhatOrange]

Every coach will make bad calls so Im not trying to defend Dino. IMO it wasnt a bad call. I initially thought it was but I changed my thoughts when I looked back to watch the play. We had them out numbered 6 to pretty much 3 on a outside zone play. The 1 tech and MLB were on the right side of the LOS. On the left side, they had 3 to our 6. Its a high percentage play when all you need is 3 yards. We had the center, guard, tackle, end, a good blocking FB with Dungey running the ball. Pierce got destroyed by his guy and thats why the play didnt work. Their 5 star players were better than us on that play. Particularly the DE. Im not making excuses, its just a fact. I questioned other calls, not this one. Keep in mind, we came out of 2 time outs and had plenty of time to think about it. They liked what they saw. Thoughts?

Just saw the play for the first time. I think it's a rather easy 6 points if Pierce doesn't get blown up. Easy 6. However, you then have to throw in Servais to. Pierce gets blown up so bad the DEnd is in the next county. Dungey would have cut that inside the end behind his pulling tackle, but can't because Servais gets blown up to which completely annihilates the play. If he holds his block for a second or 2 I think Dungey still scores.

Pause it at the 3-5 second mark and focus on Servais.

 

[money3189]

Except for these road games, where sideline throws on the very first possession of the game has consistently led to picks...I'd generally agree.

Im not trying to defend the coaches. I definitely dont like every call but they rely on 50/50 balls. Thats what they've done since they been here. . Its their scheme and they work on it all the time. 50/50 balls can go either way. Its looks great when we win them. No one complains then. Im sure they know which CB's they can attack. A lot of those under throws are by design. Hard to defend that.

 

[orangecuse]

Im not trying to defend the coaches. I definitely dont like every call but they rely on 50/50 balls. Thats what they've done since they been here. . Its their scheme and they work on it all the time. 50/50 balls can go either way. Its looks great when we win them. No one complains then. Im sure they know which CB's they can attack. A lot of those under throws are by design. Hard to defend that.

Well, I sure hope not to see a first possession sideline throw in our final road game against Louisville. These 50-50 balls you refer to have been 0-100 and have led to scores for the opposition to boot. Not the way you want to start a game on the road...

 

[money3189]

Just saw the play for the first time. I think it's a rather easy 6 points if Pierce doesn't get blown up. Easy 6. However, you then have to throw in Servais to. Pierce gets blown up so bad the DEnd is in the next county. Dungey would easily have cut that inside the end behind his pulling tackle but Servais gets blown up to. If he holds his block for a second or 2 I think Dungey still scores.

Pause it at the 3-5 second mark and focus on Servais.

You are absolutely dead on. It should have been a natural cut back. That zone play is designed to stretch out.

 

[money3189]

Well, I sure hope not to see a first possession sideline throw in our final road game against Louisville. These 50-50 balls you refer to have been 0-100 and have led to scores for the opposition to boot. Not the way you want to start a game on the road...

maybe Im not understanding you, What side line throw are you referring to? You have video? I thought you meant the vertical balls.

 

[orangecuse]

maybe Im not understanding you, What side line throw are you referring to? You have video? I thought you meant the vertical balls.

We started the LSU game with a pick 6 on a sideline throw at LSU. We started the NCST game at NCST (I believe) with a pick on our first possession on a sideline throw, which led to their first score. Saturday against FSU at FSU...again, same bat time, same bat channel.

 

[PhatOrange]

Well, I sure hope not to see a first possession sideline throw in our final road game against Louisville. These 50-50 balls you refer to have been 0-100 and have led to scores for the opposition to boot. Not the way you want to start a game on the road...

against FSU that was a wheel route and Strickland was WIDE open, that is until the AA FSU kid made a tremendous play reading the wheel and jumping it.

sometimes you have to give credit to the other team for making good plays. it was the same for the LSU DB. he made a tremendous play.

 

[orangecuse]

against FSU that was a wheel route and Strickland was WIDE open, that is until the AA FSU kid made a tremendous play reading the wheel and jumping it.

Goodness. It was a throw that was along the sidelines and got picked off on our very first possession of the game. It led to an FSU TD. Same relative thing happened against State and LSU. That's what I'm attempting to say. Please whatever the case, wheel route, down and out, bubble screen, whatever. I don't want to see a ball being thrown anywhere towards the sidelines on our very first possession to start the game. It has led to 3 picks where each team has scored a TD right off the bat to start the game. Maybe, these teams have footage or know tendencies that says SU always likes to throw to the sideline on their opening road possessions...so their players are prepared to make such, as you refer to, "tremendous" plays.

 

[Yegorange]

against FSU that was a wheel route and Strickland was WIDE open, that is until the AA FSU kid made a tremendous play reading the wheel and jumping it.

sometimes you have to give credit to the other team for making good plays. it was the same for the LSU DB. he made a tremendous play.

People were all over ED for that pick on the wheel route, never mind it was a great defensive play. But hey, FSU is terrible, so it's gotta be on Eric.

 

[upperdeck]

It sounds like we should never run no matter if we have 5 guys to block 1. at some point guys have to make blocks and make people miss.. Look at the KC/dallas play end of the first half.. They need 55 and throw it 20.. 3 on 7 and it works so great play when the reality is that may work 1 of 250 times and it may work for 50 yds and get no pts. where a hail mary works or it doesnt been when it does you almost always score.

 

[money3189]

We started the LSU game with a pick 6 on a sideline throw at LSU. We started the NCST game at NCST (I believe) with a pick on our first possession on a sideline throw, which led to their first score. Saturday against FSU at FSU...again, same bat time, same bat channel.

I get your frustration and yes it has contributed to our slow starts. Im frustrated too. At the same time, this is our offense. We run the same plays in other games. Just isnt noticed because there werent passes intercepted. The LSU game was on Dungey. Its a simple hitch route that everyone runs from pop warner and up. You have to give credit to the CB for being agressive and going with his intincts. Nc st game. It was the second play of the drive. Thats one of their trademark plays. Its a vertical ball on 1 on 1 coverage. How many times have we torched people on that play? You cant stop throwing them. Its part of their offense and it opens up plays that they run later in the game. Just have to give credit to the DB. Just like all those DB's we torch give us credit for making plays. We have the nations #1 WR duo because of that play.

 

[money3189]

It sounds like we should never run no matter if we have 5 guys to block 1. at some point guys have to make blocks and make people miss.. Look at the KC/dallas play end of the first half.. They need 55 and throw it 20.. 3 on 7 and it works so great play when the reality is that may work 1 of 250 times and it may work for 50 yds and get no pts. where a hail mary works or it doesnt been when it does you almost always score.

I agree at some point we have to be able to run the ball when the defense gives it to us. We havent been able to take advantage of it. Except the Miami game.

 

[PhatOrange]

Goodness. It was a throw that was along the sidelines and got picked off on our very first possession of the game. It led to an FSU TD. Same relative thing happened against State and LSU. That's what I'm attempting to say. Please whatever the case, wheel route, down and out, bubble screen, whatever. I don't want to see a ball being thrown anywhere towards the sidelines on our very first possession to start the game. It has led to 3 picks where each team has scored a TD right off the bat to start the game. Maybe, these teams have footage or know tendencies that says SU always likes to throw to the sideline on their opening road possessions...so their players are prepared to make such, as you refer to, "tremendous" plays.

It think it's just dumb luck against 2 kids who made great plays. Watch the highlight, starts at 13 second mark. #3 hesitates for a split second to cover the slot and then sees Strickland and goes with him. I'm really amazed watching the replay that #3 even saw Strickland coming out of the backfield and made the decision to go with him.

Might have been better to decoy with Erv in the slot and not Riley b/c we never throw to Riley?? IDK.

Dungey should have put more air under it but Dungey also never saw the defender. He throws it like Strickland isn't being covered. I think this is a great play call on the first possession. I'd bet 8/10 times the backer sticks the slot and you have Strickland heading down the sideline with nothing but green in sight. oh well. yes it would be nice to NOT have a first possession turnover.

 

[PhatOrange]

 

[upperdeck]

Servais gets blown up but he has no way to make that block when the DT has that angle on him. I think its a blocking mistake in assignment. the LT has to contain the DT on his inside shoulder.. if pierce makes the block then Elmore goes outside and its a walk in if he doesnt miss the outside LB. If pierce takes the DE outside like he did and the LT/Center contain the DT then Elmore comes inside and hits the LB and then its dungey with huge space and 1/1 with the MLB .

 

[money3189]

Servais gets blown up but he has no way to make that block when the DT has that angle on him. I think its a blocking mistake in assignment. the LT has to contain the DT on his inside shoulder.. if pierce makes the block then Elmore goes outside and its a walk in if he doesnt miss the outside LB. If pierce takes the DE outside like he did and the LT/Center contain the DT then Elmore comes inside and hits the LB and then its dungey with huge space and 1/1 with the MLB .

correct

 

[Townie72]

Except for these road games, where sideline throws on the very first possession of the game has consistently led to picks...I'd generally agree.

I'd be reluctant to put that interception on the coaches.

I love Dungey, but that ball was thrown when our receiver was completely behind the defensive player. Our guy had no chance at it and the DB could hardly miss catching the ball.

Unless, of course, ED was told "Throw the ball regardless" and I doubt that.

I have noticed that there is a tendency for ED to throw the ball into what appears to me to be a 50%-50% situation between the SU receiver and the DB assuming that our guy (especially Ishmael) will end up with it. It's worked a lot and ED may have been told to throw it and trust the WR's.

On play I'd like to have the coach's logic behind was our first running play. It was a sweep and it gained nothing.

I have been told many, many times that you can't run outside on these Southern teams with their superior speed. They didn't try it again.

But it may be that the SU assessment of FSU was that they weren't going to be able to run inside either. Sometimes plays are run for the sole purpose of setting other plays up and this may have been the case with that lone sweep.

 

[PhatOrange]

Servais gets blown up but he has no way to make that block when the DT has that angle on him. I think its a blocking mistake in assignment. the LT has to contain the DT on his inside shoulder.. if pierce makes the block then Elmore goes outside and its a walk in if he doesnt miss the outside LB. If pierce takes the DE outside like he did and the LT/Center contain the DT then Elmore comes inside and hits the LB and then its dungey with huge space and 1/1 with the MLB .

I thought about the LT but I couldn't reconcile why the tackle shoots out the way he did without hesitation. I think he was doing what he's supposed to do. So I just watched it 10 more times and I'm wrong about Servais. It's the guard who misses the block #75 - Heckel.

Looks like the DT lines up in the gap between Heckle and Conway but Heckle, who's in a 3 point stance, appears to be slow off the snap and not get to the outside shoulder of the DT. He has time to do get there to. If you watch it a few times, you can see that he initially engages the DT straight-on instead of first getting to the outside. Now the DT has the leverage as he angles to the right.

Elmore doesn't ad-lib either. He should've taken on the guy who beat Heckel. But I can't blame him.

 

[CU44SE]

Just talking out loud here. Do you think it’s possible that Babers wasn’t sure if Dungey would be able to go in the second half. That he may tighten up at halftime or his adrenaline might fade away and the pain would have kept him from playing and that’s why he went for the points? I think, and maybe this is wrong. But i think of Dungey is 100% the whole game, with no injury, Babers takes the 3. But because Dungey had already missed a lot of time in the game, and it wasn’t certain if he would be able to finish, he went for the points going into halftime.

 

[KaiserUEO]

You see kids, even if I’m rich, if someone gives me $30 for free, I take it.

And if that someone says...but wait!! I’ll give you $70 if so some manual labor!!

I’d say..’thank you for the $30’ and go right into a bar.

It was dumb.