6 player rotation?

[RF2044]

We said this last year too. His ridiculously short rotations are getting annoying.

So?

Last year, none of those guys were in the rotation legitimately. This year, they could be. For this team to actualize its potential, we need a bench. Period. Guys like Gbinije, Patterson, and BJ need to provide contributions. The latter two didn't even play today [Patterson got a few minutes]. They can still work their way into the rotation, but time is running out. And BJ coming out and playing so poorly against Cal isn't going to ingratiate himself with JB.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If we're going to play the hindsight game, when we had that 12 point lead we could have just played those guys at that point and likely not have it make any difference since we choked that lead away.

This is going to sound pretty spiteful, but if we require 39 and 33 from McCullough and Christmas against teams like Colgate, then yeah, we may as well develop our bench for the NIT because we're not going anywhere else. If you think we can get through the year with Chinso getting no run and simply getting thrown into tight games when Rak and/or McCullough inevitably foul out, be my guest. If you think a 6 man rotation from now until March is going to work, and this team won't lay down and die in February, be my guest. It's clearly an either/or situation. Oh wait, no it's not.

We didn't play Colgate tonight.

There are plenty of opportunity left in November and December to get everyone some minutes.

Tonight wasn't one of those opportunities.

 

[Madbiker]

How the heck are players suppose to improve without playing time. This team isn't a NC contender this year which is fine but develop the players you have as much as you can for the future.

I get JB tightening the bench when the team is trying to win that year but this team needs to develop the talent we have. I understand JB not wanting to go 0-2 in these upcoming games and was trying to salvage confidence but in these games we should be giving all 8 guys a chance to develop.

I think JB would say his goal is to win games not develop anyone. They can develop in practice. I'm not agreeing just what I think his mindset is.

 

[anomander]

McCullough played 39 minutes tonight. Christmas played 33. They were our leading scorers tonight.

Gbinije played 31 minutes and got 7 rebounds and 2 steals.

And we needed every point and rebound tonight.

15 minutes of BJ and Chino means someone else has to sit for 15 minutes.

Do you think that would have been a good idea tonight?

Or do you want to have the best developed bench in the NIT?

I don't know about Chino, but I don't see how BJ would hurt us? I think he could be a help offensively.

 

[JOC44]

If I could figure out a way to just play McCullough, Christmas, and Gbinije, I'd be in favor of that. Maybe a 3-on-3 league.

 

[TBCuse11]

If we're going to play the hindsight game, when we had that 12 point lead we could have just played those guys at that point and likely not have it make any difference since we choked that lead away.

This is going to sound pretty spiteful, but if we require 39 and 33 from McCullough and Christmas against teams like Colgate, then yeah, we may as well develop our bench for the NIT because we're not going anywhere else. If you think we can get through the year with Chinso getting no run and simply getting thrown into tight games when Rak and/or McCullough inevitably foul out, be my guest. If you think a 6 man rotation from now until March is going to work, and this team won't lay down and die in February, be my guest. It's clearly an either/or situation. Oh wait, no it's not.

Let it go I guess. There are too many people here who simply will not dare question anything Jim does. He will continue to coach every team the same regardless of personnel. We could have a fun little team later in the year but I fear we will have 6 worn out guys and 3 guys who average less than 2 mins a game.

 

[MikeSU02]

If JB wants to shorten the bench come January, fine, whatever. But shortening the bench now is suicide and will ensure that this team doesn't make it all the way. We've seen way better teams in the past collapse down the stretch with this kind of short bench. It's ludicrous.

This is where I'm at as well. Not only do the guys get worn down towards the end of the year, we are also always one injury (or suspension) away from being absolutely screwed.

 

[Alsacs]

Listen I hope tonight was all about JB not wanting to go 0-2 in back to back days and salvaging the teams confidence but if Patterson and Johnson don't get PT in all of the upcoming games before January then it will be a mistake. Nobody sees a NC contender this year we need to improve the players and develop the talent. 2008 we developed Flynn, Jackson and a couple of other guys and still competed. 6 man rotations won't work.

 

[007]

I don't know about Chino, but I don't see how BJ would hurt us? I think he could be a help offensively.

If BJ makes shots, he will have a role. But he is not making shots so far with the jump in competition, and his play in the zone is not very good. If he was better on D, JB might trust him more and give him more time to shoot himself into a rhythm.

 

[anomander]

If BJ makes shots, he will have a role. But he is not making shots so far with the jump in competition, and his play in the zone is not very good. If he was better on D, JB might trust him more and give him more time to shoot himself into a rhythm.

He had a bad game yesterday, it happens. He didn't even get his warm ups off tonight, so not really sure how we can say he isn't making shots with the jump in competition? And while defense isn't his strong suit, the guys on the court had plenty of defensive lapses as well. I just don't see any reason what so ever that Cooney has to play 40 minutes a game.

 

[pearl31]

If we're going to play the hindsight game, when we had that 12 point lead we could have just played those guys at that point and likely not have it make any difference since we choked that lead away.

This is going to sound pretty spiteful, but if we require 39 and 33 from McCullough and Christmas against teams like Colgate, then yeah, we may as well develop our bench for the NIT because we're not going anywhere else. If you think we can get through the year with Chinso getting no run and simply getting thrown into tight games when Rak and/or McCullough inevitably foul out, be my guest. If you think a 6 man rotation from now until March is going to work, and this team won't lay down and die in February, be my guest. It's clearly an either/or situation. Oh wait, no it's not.

Iowa=Colgate?

 

[pearl31]

Let it go I guess. There are too many people here who simply will not dare question anything Jim does. He will continue to coach every team the same regardless of personnel. We could have a fun little team later in the year but I fear we will have 6 worn out guys and 3 guys who average less than 2 mins a game.

Plenty of other teams and teams' message boards out there :noidea:

 

[GonzoInMD]

He had a bad game yesterday, it happens. He didn't even get his warm ups off tonight, so not really sure how we can say he isn't making shots with the jump in competition? And while defense isn't his strong suit, the guys on the court had plenty of defensive lapses as well. I just don't see any reason what so ever that Cooney has to play 40 minutes a game.

Because Silent G is playing the majority of his minutes at the 3...and the other option for Cooney is an equally streaky...if not more so...Ron Patterson.

 

[SUintheVille]

There are distinct camps here, with some thinking more should play to better develop the bench for more needed depth later, and those who think we should play the best guys in order to win. Both sides of the issue have merit. JB overall is a short bench guy, and that's just not gonna change. No chance of a "platoon" system at SU. What I said in the OP is not to give anything close to equal playing time, but just to sub in a BJ or Buss in 2nd half for a couple minutes before or after a TV timeout to allow for a few minute break for the top 5 or 6 guys so they do have the legs and stamina to finish the game strong, every game, and not have say a team make a come back from 15 down to almost win a game. And yes, the bench guys can get better minutes in less critical non-conf or weaker conf games as possible.

 

[anomander]

It's amazing every other big name program is able to win games playing more then 6 people. I want to know how do they do it?

 

[donniesyracuse]

This debate has been going on for almost 40 years. Don't people get tired of talking about if?

 

[Oakland]

What most don't understand is that our talent is not quite as good as they think.

I agree. Having lived in other cities for many years, most think Jimmy has underachieved for the most part. All the talent, all the high seeds and lofty rankings and just one title. Numerous coaches have more. Stubborn to a fault, Jim will never stray from his plan. We should 100% be giving all 8 guys minutes. It isn't like we have dion waiters or MCW at guard. We have a frosh PG and a poor shooting SG.

How is McCullough going to survive as a frosh playing 37 minutes a game? He's a stud no doubt... but he's a kid.

 

[Full_Rebar]

This debate has been going on for almost 40 years. Don't people get tired of talking about if?

Well if the knock against your coach/team is that they underachieve in March, I would say No. Are our Top 100 HS players that bad that they can't function for 6-10 minutes per game?

 

[OrangeDW]

He had a bad game yesterday, it happens. He didn't even get his warm ups off tonight, so not really sure how we can say he isn't making shots with the jump in competition? And while defense isn't his strong suit, the guys on the court had plenty of defensive lapses as well. I just don't see any reason what so ever that Cooney has to play 40 minutes a game.

Agreed. If we had a great starting 5, I can see the approach of not trusting anyone else to be out there.

Our starting 5 isn't even good. We have 2 players who've looked good so far. Everyone else has struggled or looked average at best. What are we clinging to here?

 

[two3zone]

What has BJ or Buss shown that says they should get more minutes and are if they truly are a liability out there which I believe they are, how many games are we going to risk experimenting to see if they fit and deserve more minutes? Roberson had times last year where he had opportunities to get some solid minutes and it didn't help him and didn't carry over to this year.

If they're ready in practice, they'll get opportunities on game day. JB said it best last year, if they turn the ball over 4 times in practice, how many times are they going to turn it over on game day.


I want everybody to succeed that's on this team, but it comes to a point where we need to trust out HOF coach, trust the statistics, and trust the eye test. All three of those things say that BJ and Buss probably just aren't ready.

 

[Cuse Action]

Only 6 played in 2nd half. Back to JB's standard. With a fast pace 2nd half, a couple minute blow for the back court might have helped. Also, maybe it's already mentioned on this board, but why did BJ ride the pine all night?

Don't you know by now that JB never does anything wrong?

 

[cuserulesall]

JB wanted to win.

He's trying to give Coach K a stroke . First one to a 1000 , wins .

 

[omniorange]

What most don't understand is that our talent is not quite as good as they think.

Yep, they'd rather think our coach is dumber than he is then believe their assessment of our talent is inaccurate. Oh Lord

Now that isn't to say said talent can't be developed better, but sometimes that takes mediocre or losing seasons to bring about. This could be such a season for us. Time will tell.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[pfister1]

Wanna play 9-10? Then press. I have no desire to see Johnson, Patterson, Roberson, Obokoh is a half court game.

To be honest I don't have much desire to see any of the players we have on this roster in a half court game. I don't think we have a roster, not matter how you allocate the playing time, that is going to be very successful playing 55 point rock fights.

 

[OrangeDW]

What has BJ or Buss shown that says they should get more minutes and are if they truly are a liability out there which I believe they are, how many games are we going to risk experimenting to see if they fit and deserve more minutes? Roberson had times last year where he had opportunities to get some solid minutes and it didn't help him and didn't carry over to this year.

If they're ready in practice, they'll get opportunities on game day. JB said it best last year, if they turn the ball over 4 times in practice, how many times are they going to turn it over on game day.


I want everybody to succeed that's on this team, but it comes to a point where we need to trust out HOF coach, trust the statistics, and trust the eye test. All three of those things say that BJ and Buss probably just aren't ready.

Neither has had much opportunity. But BJ had 19(?) points in the season opener, granted against a scrub team.

And Buss had a big game in the exhibition against a good Carleton team. Granted, an exhibition. But both of those performances were showing "something".

What has Cooney or Gbinije showed to warrant being anything more than 20-25 minute per game guys? These guys have gotten a lot of opportunity and have proven to be average players at this level so far. It's not like riding GMac or Melo or Flynn for "never come off the court" minutes. These guys aren't that good.

What I would like to see...Johnson gets regular minutes. I think he could give us some scoring punch, and I don't see why he couldn't do everything else at least at an adequate level. He's a good athlete, 6'7, and looks to have a good shooting stroke. The "skinny" thing is overplayed. He's rebounded fine. Warrick was skinny. Silent G is skinny. Cooney is kind've choppy/unsmooth/slightly spazzy...who cares if he's skinny?

Patterson, I can see being odd man out in a lot of games. I'm ok with that...but if Cooney is having a 1-10 type night, I don't see the problem with giving him some minutes. Again...what would we be clinging to?