ACC VS Univ Maryland: Round 1 to ACC

[arbitragegls]

as indicated in the link below, a NC judge ruled against Maryland in wanting the suit dropped because Maryland is an arm of the state. This was countered by the ACC which pointed out that in North Carolina sovereign immunity doesn't exist in contractual claims. This will sets up for the case to continue in North Carolina...home court advantage held 1st period.

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/articl...yland-lawsuit-alive-4288052.php#ixzz2LI4YSoMb

 

[HtownOrange]

Good news. If that is their only reason for moving the suit to Maryland, then the Maryland court should deny hearing the issue as venue is proper in NC.

Hypthetically, the Maryland courts can continue the trial in Maryland in parallel with teh NC courts, but once it gets to SCOTUS, they would probably ignore the Maryland courts. That said, this should be dropped in Maryland.

I am not aware of any case law that would support keeping the issue in Maryland. Any Con law experts, please chime in.

 

[Alsacs]

as indicated in the link below, a NC judge ruled against Maryland in wanting the suit dropped because Maryland is an arm of the state. This was countered by the ACC which pointed out that in North Carolina sovereign immunity doesn't exist in contractual claims. This will sets up for the case to continue in North Carolina...home court advantage held 1st period.

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/articl...yland-lawsuit-alive-4288052.php#ixzz2LI4YSoMb

Arb, Maryland will move the case out of North Carolina District Court to Federal Court under Diversity Jurisdiction, and have Federal Judges who aren't elected by the people of NC like District Court decide this case. However, the crux of the case will come down whether the 50 million dollar exit fee is punitive or if the ACC can prove the bylaw is a liquidated damages provision. I think the case will be settled and for undisclosed amount of money that will be closer to 50 million than 15 million. The ACC doesn't want the facts to become public and a trial would be horrible for Swofford as he would be a witness to testify and the MD lawyers would really destroy him on the stand. I am sure he is going to be deposed and the deposition won't be pretty.

 

[rrlbees]

The ACC doesn't want the facts to become public and a trial would be horrible for Swofford as he would be a witness to testify and the MD lawyers would really destroy him on the stand. I am sure he is going to be deposed and the deposition won't be pretty.

What makes you say all that?

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[Alsacs]

What makes you say all that?

Sent using my Commodore 64

Maryland lawyers will ask Swofford questions about the Big East poaching, negotiations with ESPN, all stuff that could make Swofford look really bad. I am sure he knows his deposition will be tough. Having done doc reviews for depositions the questions are all gotcha questions and really make you nervous. This case won't go to trial unless the ACC lawyers are very confident they will win as jury trials are always a gamble and the information to come out would be embarrassing for the conference I am sure.

 

[HtownOrange]

Arb, Maryland will move the case out of North Carolina District Court to Federal Court under Diversity Jurisdiction, and have Federal Judges who aren't elected by the people of NC like District Court decide this case. However, the crux of the case will come down whether the 50 million dollar exit fee is punitive or if the ACC can prove the bylaw is a liquidated damages provision. I think the case will be settled and for undisclosed amount of money that will be closer to 50 million than 15 million. The ACC doesn't want the facts to become public and a trial would be horrible for Swofford as he would be a witness to testify and the MD lawyers would really destroy him on the stand. I am sure he is going to be deposed and the deposition won't be pretty.

Alsacs, I agree, a Swofford Deposition will be ugly. I also think that depositions of Maryland personnel, and posibly B1G personnel will be at least as ugly. If there is anything that implies some communication between Maryland and the B1G it will be exploited.

I agree, netither side will want full disclosure on this because it will be so ugly.

 

[Crusty]

Is this a bench trial or jury trail? I would be surprised if either party wants a jury trail.

 

[baggerbob]

The Big 10 having to testify will be a bigger deal, because they are trying to get their network on main tier. If they p*** enough of the millions of people on the East Coast off, they will end up paying a huge price. The other part is the President of Maryland who is formerly from the Big 10, might have some problems.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Arb, Maryland will move the case out of North Carolina District Court to Federal Court under Diversity Jurisdiction, and have Federal Judges who aren't elected by the people of NC like District Court decide this case. However, the crux of the case will come down whether the 50 million dollar exit fee is punitive or if the ACC can prove the bylaw is a liquidated damages provision. I think the case will be settled and for undisclosed amount of money that will be closer to 50 million than 15 million. The ACC doesn't want the facts to become public and a trial would be horrible for Swofford as he would be a witness to testify and the MD lawyers would really destroy him on the stand. I am sure he is going to be deposed and the deposition won't be pretty.

Even if it does go to Federal Court it would still be tried in Greensboro where the current judges are graduates from Carolina, Wake, Notre Dame and George Washington. Not bad odds.
And if it would go to jury trial, remember it would be the same jury population that let John Edwards walk.

 

[arbitragegls]

Maryland lawyers will ask Swofford questions about the Big East poaching, negotiations with ESPN, all stuff that could make Swofford look really bad. I am sure he knows his deposition will be tough. Having done doc reviews for depositions the questions are all gotcha questions and really make you nervous. This case won't go to trial unless the ACC lawyers are very confident they will win as jury trials are always a gamble and the information to come out would be embarrassing for the conference I am sure.

This could turn into a veritable nightmare...for 1, all the paper work, emails, conversations etc between the B1G and Maryland will become evidence; and everything between the ACC and ESPN etc will be in evidence...the only thing that stops this will be a settlement...I am thinking $35,000,000 from Maryland minimum...if it goes all the way, I believe the ACC has better than an 80% chance of winning...

 

[Toga]

This could turn into a veritable nightmare...for 1, all the paper work, emails, conversations etc between the B1G and Maryland will become evidence; and everything between the ACC and ESPN etc will be in evidence...the only thing that stops this will be a settlement...I am thinking $35,000,000 from Maryland minimum...if it goes all the way, I believe the ACC has better than an 80% chance of winning...

$35M sounds right.

 

[Chris02M]

This could turn into a veritable nightmare...for 1, all the paper work, emails, conversations etc between the B1G and Maryland will become evidence; and everything between the ACC and ESPN etc will be in evidence...the only thing that stops this will be a settlement...I am thinking $35,000,000 from Maryland minimum...if it goes all the way, I believe the ACC has better than an 80% chance of winning...

i dont see the acc settling for anything under 40.

also looking at the acc schedule after putting all the non conference games onto a full schedule i can tell why it is talking so long to finalize the schedule as most of the fcs teams have there dates set already for games(is this normal i thought fcs waited until acc fbs announce dates for games?)

this article on sujuiceonline.com says we have finalized our 12th opponent and its from today:

http://sujuiceonline.com/2013/02/18...tball-indoor-practice-facility-2013-schedule/

 

[Btstimpy]

Arb, Maryland will move the case out of North Carolina District Court to Federal Court under Diversity Jurisdiction, and have Federal Judges who aren't elected by the people of NC like District Court decide this case. However, the crux of the case will come down whether the 50 million dollar exit fee is punitive or if the ACC can prove the bylaw is a liquidated damages provision. I think the case will be settled and for undisclosed amount of money that will be closer to 50 million than 15 million. The ACC doesn't want the facts to become public and a trial would be horrible for Swofford as he would be a witness to testify and the MD lawyers would really destroy him on the stand. I am sure he is going to be deposed and the deposition won't be pretty.

My understanding is that the case in NC isn't about the Exit Fee as much as it is about whether the ACC bylaws as approved and amended by the ACC Council of Presidents are in fact a binding contract between the ACC and every member institution under North Carolina law. This has to be determined by the North Carolina Judiciary. Don't believe that there is any federal jurisdiction.

 

[jgeorge322]

Maryland lawyers will ask Swofford questions about the Big East poaching, negotiations with ESPN, all stuff that could make Swofford look really bad. I am sure he knows his deposition will be tough. Having done doc reviews for depositions the questions are all gotcha questions and really make you nervous. This case won't go to trial unless the ACC lawyers are very confident they will win as jury trials are always a gamble and the information to come out would be embarrassing for the conference I am sure.

For all the attorneys out there, why would this go to trial? This is a contract claim. It's a matter of law. Unless there are questions of fact, I don't see why a jury would be necessary for this claim. Motion practice would seem sufficient.

 

[jgeorge322]

This could turn into a veritable nightmare...for 1, all the paper work, emails, conversations etc between the B1G and Maryland will become evidence; and everything between the ACC and ESPN etc will be in evidence...the only thing that stops this will be a settlement...I am thinking $35,000,000 from Maryland minimum...if it goes all the way, I believe the ACC has better than an 80% chance of winning...

Wow that is a bold statement without knowing what has been exchanged in discovery. And you must define a win.

Also for all the people taking about home cooking, there is always the appellate division. This case may linger for years, at which point, it will be an old story.

 

[nzm136]

My understanding is that the case in NC isn't about the Exit Fee as much as it is about whether the ACC bylaws as approved and amended by the ACC Council of Presidents are in fact a binding contract between the ACC and every member institution under North Carolina law. This has to be determined by the North Carolina Judiciary. Don't believe that there is any federal jurisdiction.

You are talking about subject matter jurisdiction. He said Diversity Jurisdiction. That just means that none of the defendants are from the same state as any of the plaintiffs. It can get more complicated than that, but that's the basic idea.

 

[nzm136]

Wow that is a bold statement without knowing what has been exchanged in discovery. And you must define a win.

Also for all the people taking about home cooking, there is always the appellate division. This case may linger for years, at which point, it will be an old story.

Winning at the fact finder level woul dbe HUGE, though.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

$35M sounds right.

Screw that. Just went up to 75 in my book.

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[jgeorge322]

Winning at the fact finder level woul dbe HUGE, though.

I'm not an attorney but I think a judge decides this one, not a jury... And there is such a thing called interlocutory appeal although unsure of the rules in usdc

 

[nzm136]

I'm not an attorney but I think a judge decides this one, not a jury... And there is such a thing called interlocutory appeal although unsure of the rules in usdc

Trial courts decide matters of fact and appellate courts are focused on matters of law. That is not to say that trial courts don't handle matters of law, because they obviously do. However, winning at the trial level is important, because a MASSIVE amount of deference is given to their conclusions of fact and appellate courts seldom determine that trial courts got the facts wrong. Since it is much easier to win a legal argument if the facts are on your side, winning at the trial level is a substantial advantage. Plus, although higher courts will overturn lower court’s holdings, they usually don’t.

Interlocutory appeals usually deal with matters of law that relate to facts, which usually consists of things like admissibility of evidence when there is a chance of irreparable harm and, although a judge vs jury trial distinction is very important in general trial strategy, whether or not a judge or a jury determines the facts has no bearing on the general importance of winning at the trial court level.

EDITED TO INCLUDE:
*Saying the fact-finder level is the same as saying the "trial court level" in this case**. I think that may have caused your initial confusion.

**Higher courts, like the Supreme Court, can be fact finders, but it is very rare.

 

[jgeorge322]

Trial courts decide matters of fact and appellate courts are focused on matters of law. That is not to say that trial courts don't handle matters of law, because they obviously do. However, winning at the trial level is important, because a MASSIVE amount of deference is given to their conclusions of fact and appellate courts seldom determine that trial courts got the facts wrong. Since it is much easier to win a legal argument if the facts are on your side, winning at the trial level is a substantial advantage. Plus, although higher courts will overturn lower court’s holdings, they usually don’t.

Interlocutory appeals usually deal with matters of law that relate to facts, which usually consists of things like admissibility of evidence when there is a chance of irreparable harm and, although a judge vs jury trial distinction is very important in general trial strategy, whether or not a judge or a jury determines the facts has no bearing on the general importance of winning at the trial court level.

EDITED TO INCLUDE:
*Saying the fact-finder level is the same as saying the "trial court level" in this case**. I think that may have caused your initial confusion.

**Higher courts, like the Supreme Court, can be fact finders, but it is very rare.

That's all great but I'm still waiting to hear what the questions of fact are for this case involving how enforceable a contract clause is. I'm not saying there isn't one but what would the jury be finding? I remain in my opinion that this case will end with both sides filing dispositive motions since the preliminary objections appear to have been denied. Also its still possible Maryland could win on a sovereign immunity defense at the conclusion of discovery, although I admittedly have no idea how strong such a defense is in this instance.

 

[OrangePA]

Maryland lawyers will ask Swofford questions about the Big East poaching, negotiations with ESPN, all stuff that could make Swofford look really bad. I am sure he knows his deposition will be tough. Having done doc reviews for depositions the questions are all gotcha questions and really make you nervous. This case won't go to trial unless the ACC lawyers are very confident they will win as jury trials are always a gamble and the information to come out would be embarrassing for the conference I am sure.

The issue isn't poaching. It's payment of the exit fee.

The BE schools paid what they were supposed to pay- more actually in the cases of WVU, SU and Pitt.

I don't think the dep will be all that ugly. Swofford will handle the questions well.

 

[nzm136]

That's all great but I'm still waiting to hear what the questions of fact are for this case involving how enforceable a contract clause is. I'm not saying there isn't one but what would the jury be finding? I remain in my opinion that this case will end with both sides filing dispositive motions since the preliminary objections appear to have been denied. Also its still possible Maryland could win on a sovereign immunity defense at the conclusion of discovery, although I admittedly have no idea how strong such a defense is in this instance.

I actually haven't been following the case, so I have no idea of the exact specifics that are argued. I was more responding to someone suggesting that he ACC would get a favorable district court, but then neutral higher courts, which I took as suggesting that there was no real advantage to winning early on. But, to answer your question, if this is a contract case, and if the contract is less than clear, which I assum ethat it is, because there are very good lawyers on both sides who are very good at making thins unclear, then there is a very decent chance that there is parol evidence. That would add an element of fact.

 

[nzm136]

The issue isn't poaching. It's payment of the exit fee.

The BE schools paid what they were supposed to pay- more actually in the cases of WVU, SU and Pitt.

I don't think the dep will be all that ugly. Swofford will handle the questions well.

He should be well-trained and that goes a long way. I would be amazed if the ACC's lawyers didn't do one h*ll of a job prepping him.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Maryland lawyers will ask Swofford questions about the Big East poaching, negotiations with ESPN, all stuff that could make Swofford look really bad. I am sure he knows his deposition will be tough. Having done doc reviews for depositions the questions are all gotcha questions and really make you nervous. This case won't go to trial unless the ACC lawyers are very confident they will win as jury trials are always a gamble and the information to come out would be embarrassing for the conference I am sure.

It can't be embarrasing if no one holds you in high regard in the first place.

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