baseball Hall of Fame

[Alsacs]

Not that it really matters, but he also blew a save in the 92 LCS, game tying HR to Alomar in the 9th.

Also the Gibson HR was definitely a blown save. Entered the game with a 4-3 lead, Gibson 2 run walkoff HR.

There's an argument Clemens was a tad unlucky his last few years in Boston; he did lead the league in K's his final year in Boston. Not saying the PED's didn't help, but he was clearly going to be a HOF if he had any kind of reasonable career after the Boston years. Pedro (rightfully) sailed in with 219 wins and 3 Cy Youngs. Clemens was at 192 wins and 3 Cy youngs when he left Boston.

Your right about the Alomar HR I forgot about that. I didn't know the Gibson HR was a blown save but I believe it.

I think Clemens gets in if he fades away in 2000. The PEDs prolonged his career by giving him fastball velocity to go with his split. Pedro was small and broke down. Clemens added muscle in his legs and I think most people allege this when he used the PEDs.

Who would you say was better Eck or Gossage? It really doesn't matter to me that much.

 

[Knicks411]

Your right about the Alomar HR I forgot about that. I didn't know the Gibson HR was a blown save but I believe it.

I think Clemens gets in if he fades away in 2000. The PEDs prolonged his career by giving him fastball velocity to go with his split. Pedro was small and broke down. Clemens added muscle in his legs and I think most people allege this when he used the PEDs.

Who would you say was better Eck or Gossage? It really doesn't matter to me that much.

I think Clemens gets in if he retires after like 97 or so? 192 wins and 3 Cy Youngs through 96; I really think if he gets past the 200 win barrier he's a lock. He had an amazing peak, even if it's just the Boston years.

It's so hard to compare the two, they were fulfilling different roles. I don't know if Eck would have been as good as Gossage if he was relied on for multiple innings so much; it's easier to go in mainly 1 inning bursts. So I think I'd take Goose.

 

[dasher]

Eck is a HOFer, but like others above have said...the 6+ out save was so hard, larussa created the 3 out and eventually 1 out save.

in both their primes, doing both their roles...id rather have Goose.

just looked up his stats, yeah his 1st 4 years (basically only) were pretty impressive.

guess he blew his arm out.

dellin betances-esque to start.

Mickey mantle was 1 for 63 against him with 56 k's. Maris pretty much the same. The Red Sox were so horrible that if they led in the 6th inning or later, in he came. And game after game. Look at his inning totals. Radatz for one inning would have been awesome.

 

[Knicks411]

Mickey mantle was 1 for 63 against him with 56 k's. Maris pretty much the same. The Red Sox were so horrible that if they led in the 6th inning or later, in he came. And game after game. Look at his inning totals. Radatz for one inning would have been awesome.

His first 3 years were amazing. I assume his arm might have fallen off from all those innings he threw. (Crazy, in 1963, he issued 13 intentional walks. Dude had 11 K's per 9 innings, did he really need to intentionally walk 13 guys?)

I looked it up; Mantle was 3-19 with 12 K's, 1 HR off Radatz. Maris actually got him pretty good, 23 PA, 294/478/471.

 

[Alsacs]

Mickey mantle was 1 for 63 against him with 56 k's. Maris pretty much the same. The Red Sox were so horrible that if they led in the 6th inning or later, in he came. And game after game. Look at his inning totals. Radatz for one inning would have been awesome.

The monster didn't have the longevity and for some reason always frustrated Red Sox fans. My grandmother would always tell me the guy was good but would always have a killer blown save. I get it though when your 2+ innings all those times.

I don't know who is a HOF and who isn't in the pre-Eck Era. Lee Smith hasn't gotten in only Bruce Sutter and Goose Gossage from RPs have gotten in.

 

[KaiserUEO]

PEDs prolonged Clemens dominance. If he continued on his trajectory post 1996 with Boston he likely puts up numbers for a few more years and they would have been good enough for the HOF. However PEDs prolonged his career till 2007 and he has among the greatest numbers of any RHP of alltime.

Bonds saw what PEDs did to McGuire and Sosa in 1998 and got jealous. They made him a HOFer the greatest HR of alltime.

Bonds and Clemens likely would have been HOFers without PEDs but they aren't getting in until maybe their final year or the veterans committee.

I get Yankee fans want Munson and Mattingly in the HOF but neither guy is getting in. If Munson didn't pass away he likely would have gotten in while Donnie just doesn't have the longevity.

Piazza admitted he used Andro and the backacny he had on his body were signs of Steroid usage. I still considered him a HOFer but he definitely had smoke around him. I never heard PEDs alleged with Jeff Bagwell. He will get in next year.


I wonder if the writers will make Vlad Guerrero a 1st ballot guy. I hate how they think being first ballot is only for special guys. If you are a HOFer your a HOFer. It would be cool if both Montreal Expos guys Raines and Vlad go in the same year.

i feel everyone did something, so the playing field was equal. its just everyones #s got blown out of proportion. i hate to think that we will ignore a decade of baseball because the precious #s dont fit. put them in the Hall, put STEROID USER on the plaque.

Yankee fans want Mattingly in the Hall because, well...hes Donnie Baseball. but we get that his back went about 3 years too soon and the only way he makes it is the vet or the 'Torre Way'.

now Munson, lets stop the nonsense. the criteria has usually been a decade of greatness. he had it. he had just that. i fail to see how if he hung around another 5 years and hit 260-270 with another 35+ hrs and 300+ rbi's to make the #s a little kinder on the eyes it would matter. he was tough with the media, big whoop. he wanted to play baseball and be with his family. it literally killed him.

as for piazza, yeah he was guilty by association. if you are standing in a room of 49 mobsters who have all been busted, but you are the 50th and clean...we can safely make the leap of faith that youre a mobster too. he got in, that should help swing the door further open...

 

[dasher]

i feel everyone did something, so the playing field was equal. its just everyones #s got blown out of proportion. i hate to think that we will ignore a decade of baseball because the precious #s dont fit. put them in the Hall, put STEROID USER on the plaque.

Yankee fans want Mattingly in the Hall because, well...hes Donnie Baseball. but we get that his back went about 3 years too soon and the only way he makes it is the vet or the 'Torre Way'.

now Munson, lets stop the nonsense. the criteria has usually been a decade of greatness. he had it. he had just that. i fail to see how if he hung around another 5 years and hit 260-270 with another 35+ hrs and 300+ rbi's to make the #s a little kinder on the eyes it would matter. he was tough with the media, big whoop. he wanted to play baseball and be with his family. it literally killed him.

as for piazza, yeah he was guilty by association. if you are standing in a room of 49 mobsters who have all been busted, but you are the 50th and clean...we can safely make the leap of faith that youre a mobster too. he got in, that should help swing the door further open...

113 HR's and a .292 batting average are not hall of fame numbers. He hit 20 Hr's once.

 

[MSOrange]

PEDs prolonged Clemens dominance. If he continued on his trajectory post 1996 with Boston he likely puts up numbers for a few more years and they would have been good enough for the HOF. However PEDs prolonged his career till 2007 and he has among the greatest numbers of any RHP of alltime.

Bonds saw what PEDs did to McGuire and Sosa in 1998 and got jealous. They made him a HOFer the greatest HR of alltime.

Bonds and Clemens likely would have been HOFers without PEDs but they aren't getting in until maybe their final year or the veterans committee.

I get Yankee fans want Munson and Mattingly in the HOF but neither guy is getting in. If Munson didn't pass away he likely would have gotten in while Donnie just doesn't have the longevity.

Piazza admitted he used Andro and the backacny he had on his body were signs of Steroid usage. I still considered him a HOFer but he definitely had smoke around him. I never heard PEDs alleged with Jeff Bagwell. He will get in next year.


I wonder if the writers will make Vlad Guerrero a 1st ballot guy. I hate how they think being first ballot is only for special guys. If you are a HOFer your a HOFer. It would be cool if both Montreal Expos guys Raines and Vlad go in the same year.

Bonds definitely would have been a HOF without PEDS in my opinion but you're exactly right. He got jealous. I can live without Bonds and Clemens going in just because of all their denials over the years. At least McGwire and Pettite admitted. I had forgotten Piazza admitted Andro.

Raines deserves to get in so it has to be next year or wait until the Vet Committee. Mattingly would have been a HOF if his back had held up. He was just as good as Boggs and Gwynn in his prime.

 

[KaiserUEO]

113 HR's and a .292 batting average are not hall of fame numbers. He hit 20 Hr's once.

stop pissing in my beer.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

And dick radatz was better than any of them. Different time. He would pitch in 7 straight games. He tossed 9 shut our relief innings in a game against the yankees.

This is the ultimate relief effort 26 up, 27 down. http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2015/06/23...w-quasi-perfect-game-after-babe-ruth-ejection

 

[KaiserUEO]

This is the ultimate relief effort 26 up, 27 down. http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2015/06/23...w-quasi-perfect-game-after-babe-ruth-ejection

old time baseball?? ernie shore??

great read.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

and while im at it...

THURMAN MUNSON aka THE CAPTAIN

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
AL MVP
7X ALL STAR
3X GOLD GLOVE
2X WORLD SERIES CHAMPION

11 years .292 113 701

look, i get it if the ridiculous bbwa didnt want to put him in, but the veterans better right this wrong.

Good read, but others should be in first, IMO.

http://baseballpastandpresent.com/2010/07/13/does-he-belong-in-the-hall-of-fame-thurman-munson/

 

[Briancuse]

i feel everyone did something, so the playing field was equal. its just everyones #s got blown out of proportion. i hate to think that we will ignore a decade of baseball because the precious #s dont fit. put them in the Hall, put STEROID USER on the plaque.

Yankee fans want Mattingly in the Hall because, well...hes Donnie Baseball. but we get that his back went about 3 years too soon and the only way he makes it is the vet or the 'Torre Way'.

now Munson, lets stop the nonsense. the criteria has usually been a decade of greatness. he had it. he had just that. i fail to see how if he hung around another 5 years and hit 260-270 with another 35+ hrs and 300+ rbi's to make the #s a little kinder on the eyes it would matter. he was tough with the media, big whoop. he wanted to play baseball and be with his family. it literally killed him.

as for piazza, yeah he was guilty by association. if you are standing in a room of 49 mobsters who have all been busted, but you are the 50th and clean...we can safely make the leap of faith that youre a mobster too. he got in, that should help swing the door further open...

Thats not really fair though, other than some rumors, and an injury that people tried to link to steroid use, what evidence is there that Piazza took peds?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Thats not really fair though, other than some rumors, and an injury that people tried to link to steroid use, what evidence is there that Piazza took peds?

theres no evidence that clemens did either.

he was cleared by the United States Congress.

and barry bonds has never failed a test.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Thats not really fair though, other than some rumors, and an injury that people tried to link to steroid use, what evidence is there that Piazza took peds?

It is not fair to keep anyone out because of PEDs.

 

[Briancuse]

theres no evidence that clemens did either.

he was cleared by the United States Congress.

and barry bonds has never failed a test.

Those congress hearings were a joke, we have his trainer, we have other steroid people who were linked to Clemens. I would put Bonds in because he was a hof before the steroid talk, but there is plenty of proof linking Bonds.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Those congress hearings were a joke, we have his trainer, we have other steroid people who were linked to Clemens. I would put Bonds in because he was a hof before the steroid talk, but there is plenty of proof linking Bonds.

the whole thing is a joke.

mitchell report started in NY, they went to the Yankees, then the Mets, got 2 people to talk...word got out and every other team cleaned up the evidence.

all we have is the eye test.

piazza and his back acne fit the eye test and i believe he said he did those powder suppliments that were all the rage for a while.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Why does anyone care about PEDs. Pitchers did it. Relievers still throwing in the hundreds in August. Hitters did it. Its entertainment. Why is there no debate about this in FB.
Baseball has already elected an admitted cheater who impacted the career of every hitter he faced with his cheating: Gaylord Perry, That cheating made the match up unequal.

 

[Briancuse]

the whole thing is a joke.

mitchell report started in NY, they went to the Yankees, then the Mets, got 2 people to talk...word got out and every other team cleaned up the evidence.

all we have is the eye test.

piazza and his back acne fit the eye test and i believe he said he did those powder suppliments that were all the rage for a while.

I have had back acne before, never once took steroids.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Schilling got over 50% this year. He will get in and needs to get in before Mussina to get in behind him. Schilling was dominant enough in the regular season his teammate Randy Johnson took atleast 1 Cy Young from him. His postseason is probably the best right now for any SP and his 3 WS titles should put him in.

Mussina was a better regular season pitcher but doesn't have the postseason record.

I think Schilling needs to get into the 60's next year and keep his upward trajectory.

Next year will have 2-4 depending on Vlad who is the only first ballot guy who will come close.

Raines is the 3rd greatest leadoff guy of alltime behind Henderson and Ichiro. Next year is his last ballot he will get in.
Bagwell should get in.
I don't get why Hoffman didn't get in this year 3rd greatest closer of alltime behind Rivera and Eckersley.

Here is one guy's opinion who feels that Schilling is going to get inducted in 2020. For DJ's sake, I really hope not. Schilling is a big bag of hot air that would do anything to piss on DJ's day. As sad as this sounds, the thought of it really upsets me.
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/161233136/baseball-hall-of-fame-2017-results-predictions

 

[KaiserUEO]

I have had back acne before, never once took steroids.

Well, um...ok. Thank you for that.

Just be happy hes in the Hall and let it go.

 

[Alsacs]

Here is one guy's opinion who feels that Schilling is going to get inducted in 2020. For DJ's sake, I really hope not. Schilling is a big bag of hot air that would do anything to piss on DJ's day. As sad as this sounds, the thought of it really upsets me.
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/161233136/baseball-hall-of-fame-2017-results-predictions

Schilling is a HOFer though. I think he should get in before 2020. The guy was dominant in the 90's thru 2004. He had an incredible in the postseason.

 

[kirbivore]

what i meant on no more steroid guys is...is there any others still out there?

i guess irod.

mcgwire and palmiero are done. sosa is about to be. so all that will be left is manny and arod.

and if we are giving bonds and clemens ins for being HOFers before they 'allegedly' starting using, by using that definition, i dont know where to put manny & arod.

if we believe arod, it was in texas...well that means 14 of his 21 years he used, or 20 if this past year was roid-free.

lord knows with manny.

i believe they all used.

For some reason nobody talks about pitchers and roids. They also used. The most obvious one was Gagne from the Dodgers. I suspect Pedro was on the juice.

 

[kirbivore]

He might have some steroid taint on him.

Is Pettitte's post-season performance that impressive? Other than the sheer volume of it. Career 3.81 ERA isn't amazing. Great record though. (pitched for a great team a lot of the time)

For every great performance (Game 5 1996 WS) there seemed to be a crappy performance (Game 1 1996 WS).

 

[dasher]

and while im at it...

THURMAN MUNSON aka THE CAPTAIN

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
AL MVP
7X ALL STAR
3X GOLD GLOVE
2X WORLD SERIES CHAMPION

11 years .292 113 701

look, i get it if the ridiculous bbwa didnt want to put him in, but the veterans better right this wrong.

So you think Dustin pedroia is a Hall of famer? Rookie of the year. MVP, 4 time gold glove winner, 2x world champion and he isn't done.