"Boeheim said Baye Keita is one of the best backup centers he's ever had"

[OttoMets]

This assertion comes from a recent Boeheim press conference covered in another thread. I've been spending much more time on the football side lately, but this seemed like an interesting off-season topic.

At first glance, this sounds like a number of other hyperbolic Boeheimisms: praising a recent player he admires while overstating his importance compared to past players. (And Baye, unfortunately, could be a lightning rod on here; for a terrific guy, his limited offensive skills and injury-related senior year drop in effectiveness frustrated many.) Upon further consideration, though, I think Boeheim is correct. The list of truly decent backup centers in his tenure is a short one, and Baye is near the top. Off the top of my head:

1. Danny Schayes, 1977-1980. He'd have started and been productive were it not for Roosevelt.
2. Otis Hill, 1994-1995. A little misleading - he was way better than Reafsnyder, but got into the doghouse and lost his starting spot to him for most of the year. (Was this after he left the team briefly?)
3. Richard Manning, 1988-1990. Good enough to transfer away and immediately put up huge numbers. Apparently not good enough to bump Derrick Coleman back to his natural position, though.
4. Conrad McRae, 1990-1992. Baye, with loud dunks. An adequate starter, unusually good for a Syracuse backup.
5. Darryl Watkins, 2004-2005. So close to earning starter's minutes during his sophomore year, then he got injured.
6. J.B. Reafsnyder, 1995-1996. He became a really good player by his senior year. Many teams would be happy to have a second-string player of this quality.
7. Baye. It's good to have a backup who does one thing very well. Baye did that with his defense and he did it fairly consistently for four years in the most difficult position on the floor.
8. Jeremy McNeil, 2002-2004. Another former starter who lost his job; a little like Baye but with lower highs and higher lows: he also could barely catch the ball at times but was an excellent shotblocker if not the overall defender and rebounder that Baye was.
9. Derek Brower, 1984-1988. He could put the ball into the basket, he could rebound, and he wasn't a revolving door on defense. For a reserve, exactly what you're looking for.
10. Dave Siock, 1990-1991, 1992-1993. Ditto. But with a better touch from the free-throw line.
11 and down: all those guys from Ovcina to Celuck to Williams, in no particular order. Unlike the first ten players, these guys would have really hurt the team if they'd been forced to start.

If that's Baye's legacy, it's a good one. Syracuse hasn't exactly been Center U. over the years, so making the short list of quality backups places him in fine company.

 

[RF2044]

This assertion comes from a recent Boeheim press conference covered in another thread. I've been spending much more time on the football side lately, but this seemed like an interesting off-season topic.

At first glance, this sounds like a number of other hyperbolic Boeheimisms: praising a recent player he admires while overstating his importance compared to past players. (And Baye, unfortunately, could be a lightning rod on here; for a terrific guy, his limited offensive skills and injury-related senior year drop in effectiveness frustrated many.) Upon further consideration, though, I think Boeheim is correct. The list of truly decent backup centers in his tenure is a short one, and Baye is near the top. Off the top of my head:

1. Danny Schayes, 1977-1980. He'd have started and been productive were it not for Roosevelt.
2. Otis Hill, 1994-1995. A little misleading - he was way better than Reafsnyder, but got into the doghouse and lost his starting spot to him for most of the year. (Was this after he left the team briefly?)
3. Richard Manning, 1988-1990. Good enough to transfer away and immediately put up huge numbers. Apparently not good enough to bump Derrick Coleman back to his natural position, though.
4. Conrad McRae, 1990-1992. Baye, with loud dunks. An adequate starter, unusually good for a Syracuse backup.
5. Darryl Watkins, 2004-2005. So close to earning starter's minutes during his sophomore year, then he got injured.
6. J.B. Reafsnyder, 1995-1996. He became a really good player by his senior year. Many teams would be happy to have a second-string player of this quality.
7. Baye. It's good to have a backup who does one thing very well. Baye did that with his defense and he did it fairly consistently for four years in the most difficult position on the floor.
8. Jeremy McNeil, 2002-2004. Another former starter who lost his job; a little like Baye but with lower highs and higher lows: he also could barely catch the ball at times but was an excellent shotblocker if not the overall defender and rebounder that Baye was.
9. Derek Brower, 1984-1988. He could put the ball into the basket, he could rebound, and he wasn't a revolving door on defense. For a reserve, exactly what you're looking for.
10. Dave Siock, 1990-1991, 1992-1993. Ditto. But with a better touch from the free-throw line.
11 and down: all those guys from Ovcina to Celuck to Williams, in no particular order. Unlike the first ten players, these guys would have really hurt the team if they'd been forced to start.

If that's Baye's legacy, it's a good one. Syracuse hasn't exactly been Center U. over the years, so making the short list of quality backups places him in fine company.

I think you could argue that in a reserve capacity [factoring out when those players were starters], Baye had a bigger impact AS A BACKUP CENTER than 5 players you list ahead of him did during the time when they were backup centers.

Obviously, players like Schayes, Hill, Watkins, McRae etc. produced more overall at the points in their careers when they ascended to being starters than BMK ever did.

I really think that in the big scheme of things, it probably comes down to Baye or JB, who was a consistent role player and part-time starter with a decent offensive game for several years.

I also think there was a little hyperbole involved, since Baye was recent and such a likeable kid who worked so diligently in practice. If he'd had the senior year many were expecting after his improbable contributions during the 2013 final four run, Baye might be undisputed as the top backup center in program history. Didn't quite work out that way, though, unfortunately.

 

[OttoMets]

I think you could argue that in a reserve capacity [factoring out when those players were starters], Baye had a bigger impact AS A BACKUP CENTER than 5 players you list ahead of him did during the time when they were backup centers.



I also think there was a little hyperbole involved, since Baye was such a likeable kid who worked so diligently in practice. Had he had the senior year many were expecting after his improbable contributions during the 2013 final four run, Baye might be undisputed as the top backup center in program history. Didn't quite work out that way, though, unfortunately.

Agree with both of these. Baye's tenure was unusual in that he played with Fab -- a freshman year bust and a sophomore year drop-out -- and needed to become effective immediately; I think he got 14 or 16 rebounds in one of his first games. He also played through the Christmas/Coleman short-hook era and was needed to play heavy minutes in some important NCAA games. Baye meant more to his teams than most other backups meant to theirs.

Regarding hyperbole, yes, Boeheim probably just meant that as the usual sort of compliment; it was more accurate than he could have hoped, however.

 

[Knicks411]

Also, he was basically the backup C for 4 years running. How often does that happen? (Looking at the list, looks like Danny Schayes was? Way before my time). Averaged between 12.3 and 16.8 MPG all 4 years too.

 

[RF2044]

Also, he was basically the backup C for 4 years running. How often does that happen? (Looking at the list, looks like Danny Schayes was? Way before my time). Averaged between 12.3 and 16.8 MPG all 4 years too.

I'm pretty certain Schayes started his senior year. He got stuck as a reserve because Roosevelt Bouie was the starter his first three years. Isn't that right? [it was also ahead of my time]

Edit: he did start his senior year: http://www.orangehoops.org/dschayes.htm

 

[cto]

I think you could argue that in a reserve capacity [factoring out when those players were starters], Baye had a bigger impact AS A BACKUP CENTER than 5 players you list ahead of him did during the time when they were backup centers.

Obviously, players like Schayes, Hill, Watkins, McRae etc. produced more overall at the points in their careers when they ascended to being starters than BMK ever did.

I really think that in the big scheme of things, it probably comes down to Baye or JB, who was a consistent role player and part-time starter with a decent offensive game for several years.

I also think there was a little hyperbole involved, since Baye was recent and such a likeable kid who worked so diligently in practice. If he'd had the senior year many were expecting after his improbable contributions during the 2013 final four run, Baye might be undisputed as the top backup center in program history. Didn't quite work out that way, though, unfortunately.

Another point that gets missed here: Baye was HAPPY being a back-up center, and he never moped because of lack of playing time. He loved every second of his SU experience and wanted to contribute in any way he could. It takes a special character and personality to be a career back-up. JB did not initiate the Baye Moussa Keita Award without giving it a lot of thought, given how he hates individual awards because he feels they detract from the idea of "team."

 

[sutomcat]

Also, he was basically the backup C for 4 years running. How often does that happen? (Looking at the list, looks like Danny Schayes was? Way before my time). Averaged between 12.3 and 16.8 MPG all 4 years too.

Danny Schayes was the backup to Roosevelt Bouie, one of our best centers ever, for 3 years and even played with him occasionally when we went to an uber big lineup.

But his senior year was the year after Rosie graduated. The program moved to the Dome, where Danny had a strong senior season, starting every game and laying the foundation for an NBA career that would last longer than any other player from Syracuse.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Danny Schayes was the backup to Roosevelt Bouie, one of our best centers ever, for 3 years and even played with him occasionally when we went to an uber big lineup.

But his senior year was the year after Rosie graduated. The program moved to the Dome, where Danny had a strong senior season, starting every game and laying the foundation for an NBA career that would last longer than any other player from Syracuse.

And I have the autograph to prove it.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I think the recent SU's teams reliance on defense to win games made Baye so valuable. We haven't had a top offensive team , a team that could score points in a number of years now. When Baye was recruited, his ability to run the floor was his greatest asset. SU though stopped running. He worked to help use that speed on moving his feet on defense. Defensively, the center position at SU has the most responsibility and is key to our defensive effectiveness. He's the catcher (ironic considering Baye's hands)on defense, sees the plays develop in front of him, calls out the picks/screens, and has to be mobile enough to get to the wings on defensive mistakes while contesting opponents inside game. There was a reason that opponents needed so much time in the shot clock to get off shots and would take an inordinate number of 3's against us. He didn't take plays off on defense , nor daydream --- if only he could have had any offensive game and put on some weight...

Rak has the tools - hope he develops the consistent focus.

 

[RF2044]

Rak has the tools - hope he develops the consistent focus.

That's a big key to the season, IMO. With some focus, he could easily have a Zanna-esque senior campaign. I'm not sure we can afford for him to have a 5 and 4 type of campaign.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I agree with CTO, JB is probably talking about more than just on-court performance. Baye has been lauded repeatedly for his leadership, mentorship, glue-guy-ness, etc off the court. Especially in a backup, those are possibly of equal or higher importance than the details of points per game or the like.

 

[mark79]

And I have the autograph to prove it.

The mention of Danny Schayes brought up a pretty cool memory for me.

Danny Schayes and Rosie Bouie were on the team when I was on the hill (thus the Mark79 -duh). Along with Joe Morris too. We had good bball AND football teams.

Danny was a member of Sammy fraternity (Sigma Alpha Mu) which was behind Haven Hall. I was a member of AEPi fraternity also behind Haven Hall and I remember frequently looking out my window to watch Danny shooting hoops in their parking lot. Just doing what we all used to do as kids shooting around all by himself.

Danny may be the single best example of a relatively lightly used Syracuse player making it big in the NBA. He was not used much at all during the Louie and Bouie show.

 

[orangefan13]

Keita helped teams win, and make us one of the best defenses in the country time and time again. He was a true team player full of hustle.

 

[Brooky03]

I remember Rick Jackson being a great backup for Onuaku.

Or does he not count because he would sometimes play PF (start?) with Onuaku?

 

[OttoMets]

I remember Rick Jackson being a great backup for Onuaku.

Or does he not count because he would sometimes play PF (start?) with Onuaku?

I thought about that. I tend to consider someone a starter if he's only a reserve in a small handful of games in a year; Jackson did that for three years after taking the starting job from Ongenaut. He was definitely a backup to Onuaku in 2007-2008, though.

Since that season didn't actually happen, unfortunately, I wasn't able to include him in this study.

 

[realorange]

And I have the autograph to prove it.

I'll call that and raise you a Dolph.

 

[djcon57]

Jeremy McNeil was a much bigger weapon off the bench than Baye, imo.

We don't beat Ok State without him.
Doubled the Blocked Shots of BMK.

 

[LennX6]

I'm pretty certain Schayes started his senior year. He got stuck as a reserve because Roosevelt Bouie was the starter his first three years. Isn't that right? [it was also ahead of my time]

Edit: he did start his senior year: http://www.orangehoops.org/dschayes.htm

He had a fantastic senior year. In his prior 3 years, he played more forward than center, a rudimentary twin towers.
Danny in those years was more comfortable on the perimeter,his senior year he went under the basket.

 

[LennX6]

Jeremy McNeil was a much bigger weapon off the bench than Baye, imo.

We don't beat Ok State without him.
Doubled the Blocked Shots of BMK.

If I am doing that list I do it differently. There are quite a few I don't consider "backup" like Otis Hill.
Jeremy is my #1. We do not win the title without him. Baye is number 2. Derek Brower has to be there somewhere. Without his wakeup call in 87 we don't go to the Title game.

 

[rrlbees]

The mention of Danny Schayes brought up a pretty cool memory for me. Danny Schayes and Rosie Bouie were on the team when I was on the hill (thus the Mark79 -duh). Along with Joe Morris too. We had good bball AND football teams. Danny was a member of Sammy fraternity (Sigma Alpha Mu) which was behind Haven Hall. I was a member of AEPi fraternity also behind Haven Hall and I remember frequently looking out my window to watch Danny shooting hoops in their parking lot. Just doing what we all used to do as kids shooting around all by himself. Danny may be the single best example of a relatively lightly used Syracuse player making it big in the NBA. He was not used much at all during the Louie and Bouie show.

Schayes wasn't even the best player on his JD HS team.

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

Jeremy McNeil was a much bigger weapon off the bench than Baye, imo.

We don't beat Ok State without him.
Doubled the Blocked Shots of BMK.

Its tough to argue which backup gave the most value for their team with that list, but I have to agree that McNeil was pretty effective, even with his personal life that seemed to weigh on him, and he was so quiet and humble on the court. He was a great change up from having Forth in the middle, I thought. Loved watching him on D - I remember a 2-1 fast break from a game where McNeil was the sole defender back, I think there two shot attempts and he blocked them both before the rest of the D arrived. I also remember McNeil hitting some really crucial free throws in late-game situations ... who woulda thunk, a SU Center hitting free throws

 

[SmilinBob]

Baye is a leader and was the defensive floor general yelling out orders and getting players in the right positions. It is difficult to quantify things like that unless you look at W/L's then you can see some pretty nice numbers.

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

Ah, Jeremy McNeil. No NC without him! Hope he's doing well.-VBOF

 

[SBU72]

Also, he was basically the backup C for 4 years running. How often does that happen? (Looking at the list, looks like Danny Schayes was? Way before my time). Averaged between 12.3 and 16.8 MPG all 4 years too.

Not only was Baye the backup center all those years, often times he was pretty much considered #3 behind Xmas who was used as #2 until the starter couldn't play. The last 2 years it was Coleman then Xmas then BMK. Before that it was Fab then Xmas then BMK.

 

[moqui]

I thought about that. I tend to consider someone a starter if he's only a reserve in a small handful of games in a year; Jackson did that for three years after taking the starting job from Ongenaut. He was definitely a backup to Onuaku in 2007-2008, though.

Since that season didn't actually happen, unfortunately, I wasn't able to include him in this study.

yes, Ricky and AO both started, but they didn't actually play many minutes together. Kris Joseph played starter's minutes alongside Wes Johnson; Ricky got a few leftover forward minutes but saw the bulk of his time backing up AO at center. IMHO, Ricky in 2010 was the best backup center SU has had since I've been watching, the Butler game notwithstanding.

When you are searching for the best in SU basketball, it's a good rule of thumb to always start with the 2010 team and only move on if you can't find it there.