Buffalo will not be allowed to beat Denver as per NFL

[Scooch]

Cool story man. You should totally keep posting in a thread about the Bills then.

Great, thanks!

 

[BuffOrange]

Is it asking too much for CBS to show one replay of two different 50yd int return penalties? Doesn't seem normal.

 

[kirbivore]

I am in awe with what I'm seeing right now from this officiating crew.

I guess with the Knicks sucking so bad this year you've had to shift your referee conspiracy posts to the Bills

 

[kirbivore]

I've never been a blame the refs guy, but the Bills have been on the butt end of quite a few calls this season that were just flat out wrong. I could never be a coach and have to stay composed. I do wonder though whether Marrone needs to push the envelope in reacting to some of these calls.

Not a Bills fan so this is a serious question. Does Marrone still pull of his Zoloft sideline demeanor?

 

[Toga]

Not a Bills fan so this is a serious question. Does Marrone still pull of his Zoloft sideline demeanor?

Yeah, but I'm thinking more like Thorazine.

 

[Orangeman]

Is it asking too much for CBS to show one replay of two different 50yd int return penalties? Doesn't seem normal.

The Networks are in on it.

They ponied up billions and want to keep the ratings story going.

I'll say it again...guys get hurt all the time. One year, the Patriots' QB got hurt when he was hit below e knee. missed the whole season and the Pats barely missed the playoffs. Yes a function of relatively good coaching and I'm sure the system helped them along, but they missed the playoffs.

That offseason the "ownership" enacted a NEW RULE that said a defensive player rushing at full speed and trying to get past a 320 pound person needs to not hit a QB below the knee. How absurd is that? If Brady ever got hit and hurt his shoulder you know there would be a rule about that.

If this league WASNT about protecting its financial investments, ranging from owners to networks, there would be NO SUCH RULE at all.

It doesn't matter if the rule is right/wrong, makes sense or doesn't, or is fair or not. Is it analogous to chop-blocks and clipping? Doesn't matter. It definitely shows though, that the almighty dollar rules over competitive balance in at least one way (or hadn't any other QBs had their ACLs torn in the past?)

 

[Melancer46]

The best was the unnecessary roughness or whatever the hell that penalty was on Graham when Gilmore picked it off and Graham tripped over a Broncos player that was laying on the ground. Somehow that's a penalty on Graham lol.

It's been a long year of dealing with the refs as a Bucs and Bills fan... the Bucs have literally put themselves in position to win on the last play in like 2-4 games this year only to have the refs literally make up new rules that have never been enacted before to penalize them and give the win to the other team.

 

[longislandcuse]

The Networks are in on it.

They ponied up billions and want to keep the ratings story going.

I'll say it again...guys get hurt all the time. One year, the Patriots' QB got hurt when he was hit below e knee. missed the whole season and the Pats barely missed the playoffs. Yes a function of relatively good coaching and I'm sure the system helped them along, but they missed the playoffs.

That offseason the "ownership" enacted a NEW RULE that said a defensive player rushing at full speed and trying to get past a 320 pound person needs to not hit a QB below the knee. How absurd is that? If Brady ever got hit and hurt his shoulder you know there would be a rule about that.

If this league WASNT about protecting its financial investments, ranging from owners to networks, there would be NO SUCH RULE at all.

It doesn't matter if the rule is right/wrong, makes sense or doesn't, or is fair or not. Is it analogous to chop-blocks and clipping? Doesn't matter. It definitely shows though, that the almighty dollar rules over competitive balance in at least one way (or hadn't any other QBs had their ACLs torn in the past?)

I want to post that meme of the little kid saying "So you're telling me Buffalo leads the league in sacks but can't get one sack on Manning or Brady?"

 

[longislandcuse]

I guess with the Knicks sucking so bad this year you've had to shift your referee conspiracy posts to the Bills

I've always had ref conspiracies with the Bills, just we usually suck so it doesn't matter. This year we're actually good enough for me to get mad about it. I don't think it's a conspiracy against the Bills, I think it's two things:

1) Buffalo has the best defense this side of Seattle. Hits the QB, hits everyone else and has caused a bunch of injuries to other teams. The NFL doesn't want dominant rough defenses unless you're one they can market a la Seattle. Until Buffalo gets good enough to become a prime time caliber team, the defense will not get benefit of the doubt. The announcers in the game, after multiple bad calls against the defense, remarked on air how they just don't know how your supposed to play defense in the NFL nowadays.

2) The league, on some level, protects their cash cows. Buffalo was never given an opportunity to go into Denver and win. It was a 4 o'clock regional game. Noone aside from those watching the game or hardcore followers on the NFL are going to know or care about the calls made in that game.

 

[MSOrange]

I've always had ref conspiracies with the Bills, just we usually suck so it doesn't matter. This year we're actually good enough for me to get mad about it. I don't think it's a conspiracy against the Bills, I think it's two things:

1) Buffalo has the best defense this side of Seattle. Hits the QB, hits everyone else and has caused a bunch of injuries to other teams. The NFL doesn't want dominant rough defenses unless you're one they can market a la Seattle. Until Buffalo gets good enough to become a prime time caliber team, the defense will not get benefit of the doubt. The announcers in the game, after multiple bad calls against the defense, remarked on air how they just don't know how your supposed to play defense in the NFL nowadays.

2) The league, on some level, protects their cash cows. Buffalo was never given an opportunity to go into Denver and win. It was a 4 o'clock regional game. Noone aside from those watching the game or hardcore followers on the NFL are going to know or care about the calls made in that game.

So besides the officiating, I think we can all agree that we don't really want to go through another year of Kyle Orton or EJ Manuel trying to playing QB. What do you think about trying to grab Brett Hundley from UCLA with the 2nd round pick? Mariotta and Winston are obviously going first round. Looking at the other QBs that might be available in the second round, Hundley was the only name that really caught my attention. Or do you think we go for another position in round 2?

 

[longislandcuse]

So besides the officiating, I think we can all agree that we don't really want to go through another year of Kyle Orton or EJ Manuel trying to playing QB. What do you think about trying to grab Brett Hundley from UCLA with the 2nd round pick? Mariotta and Winston are obviously going first round. Looking at the other QBs that might be available in the second round, Hundley was the only name that really caught my attention. Or do you think we go for another position in round 2?

I really don't know. Even Winston and Mariota are far from surefire picks. I would rather build a monster O-Line and bring in a playmaking TE while keeping the defense in tact, we're 2 good guards away from having a good offensive line. Urbik and Pears sabotage the whole thing.

As long as we keep the defense in tact and upgrade OL and TE, i'll be happy. Orton/Manuel isn't optimal but we can win with this defense and a better offensive line.

FWIW, I bet you will hear a lot of rumors about Cutler or RG3 to Buffalo.

 

[MSOrange]

I really don't know. Even Winston and Mariota are far from surefire picks. I would rather build a monster O-Line and bring in a playmaking TE while keeping the defense in tact, we're 2 good guards away from having a good offensive line. Urbik and Pears sabotage the whole thing.

As long as we keep the defense in tact and upgrade OL and TE, i'll be happy. Orton/Manuel isn't optimal but we can win with this defense and a better offensive line.

FWIW, I bet you will hear a lot of rumors about Cutler or RG3 to Buffalo.

Besides QB, offensive line is the other area if would focus on - totally agree there. I was just wondering if it was just me that thought Urbik and Pears are just awful. Sometimes it hard to get a perspective from just listening to the games but it sure seems like those names are called frequently for not doing good things!

I bet you're right about RG3 and Cutler. But I just can't see anyone taking on Cutler's contract. That made the Ryan Fitzpatrick deal seem like a great idea. I still thought RG3 had a chance to come back this season and be good but he's just been a total disaster with both his play and it sounds like the leadership side of things.

 

[longislandcuse]

Besides QB, offensive line is the other area if would focus on - totally agree there. I was just wondering if it was just me that thought Urbik and Pears are just awful. Sometimes it hard to get a perspective from just listening to the games but it sure seems like those names are called frequently for not doing good things!

I bet you're right about RG3 and Cutler. But I just can't see anyone taking on Cutler's contract. That made the Ryan Fitzpatrick deal seem like a great idea. I still thought RG3 had a chance to come back this season and be good but he's just been a total disaster with both his play and it sounds like the leadership side of things.

Yea agreed on all that. We have money to spend and definitely need to use it keeping the defense in tact. After that, if we can't get a big time QB, might as well get a great offensive line and weapons to try to make an average QB look great.

The Guard position has been abysmal all year. Our tackles and Center are very solid but whenever the line collapses you know where to look and our inability to run comes from one part of the line, yup the guards. Definitely need to address that and for the love of God please get a playmaking Tight End that is not Scott Chandler. I dont mind keeping him around at TE2 but we need a TE1.

 

[BuffOrange]

The Networks are in on it.

They ponied up billions and want to keep the ratings story going.

I'll say it again...guys get hurt all the time. One year, the Patriots' QB got hurt when he was hit below e knee. missed the whole season and the Pats barely missed the playoffs. Yes a function of relatively good coaching and I'm sure the system helped them along, but they missed the playoffs.

That offseason the "ownership" enacted a NEW RULE that said a defensive player rushing at full speed and trying to get past a 320 pound person needs to not hit a QB below the knee. How absurd is that? If Brady ever got hit and hurt his shoulder you know there would be a rule about that.

If this league WASNT about protecting its financial investments, ranging from owners to networks, there would be NO SUCH RULE at all.

It doesn't matter if the rule is right/wrong, makes sense or doesn't, or is fair or not. Is it analogous to chop-blocks and clipping? Doesn't matter. It definitely shows though, that the almighty dollar rules over competitive balance in at least one way (or hadn't any other QBs had their ACLs torn in the past?)

The best part about the Brady rule is Carson Palmer took the exact same hit/injury in a playoff game three years earlier (and completed a 60yd pass on the first play of the game...pretty much won Pittsburgh the Super Bowl along with absurd 1sided officiating in the SB vs Seattle). Cincinnati wasn't important enough I guess.

 

[Alsacs]

Our team just scored.

 

[RF2044]

I am in awe with what I'm seeing right now from this officiating crew.

Not that I expect to get any sympathy in a Bills thread, but the same thing happened two weeks ago when Miami played @ Denver. In the second half alone, Denver "drew" five defensive penalties on 3rd down that gave them first downs and kept drives alive. Ridiculous.

 

[Scooch]

Not that I expect to get any sympathy in a Bills thread, but the same thing happened two weeks ago when Miami played @ Denver. In the second half alone, Denver "drew" five defensive penalties on 3rd down that gave them first downs and kept drives alive. Ridiculous.

When Peyton was in Indianapolis Bill Polian managed to get significant rules changes enacted after the Pats secondary abused his receiving crew in an AFC Champ game.

But that's not part of the conspiracy, the Pats are golden children, I know. Never a bad call goes against them.

 

[kirbivore]

When Peyton was in Indianapolis Bill Polian managed to get significant rules changes enacted after the Pats secondary abused his receiving crew in an AFC Champ game.

But that's not part of the conspiracy, the Pats are golden children, I know. Never a bad call goes against them.

I thought Polian just got the referees to more strictly enforce existing rules. What new rules were created after that divisional round game in January 2005?

 

[Alsacs]

Polian the snake that he is made the competition committee pass the illegal contact after 5 yards penalty. That penalty is ridiculous is should be 10 yards at minimum.

 

[Scooch]

I thought Polian just got the referees to more strictly enforce existing rules. What new rules were created after that divisional round game in January 2005?

Apologies for not being more clear. Perhaps not "changes" as much as emphasis.

Per an article on FiveThirtyEight.com:

In the case of illegal contact, yes. In 2004, Indianapolis Colts general manager Bill Polian spent the offseason lobbying the NFL Competition Committee to more strictly enforce the illegal contact rule in the wake of his team’s 24-14 playoff defeat against the New England Patriots (a game in which Manning — then playing for Indianapolis — tossed four interceptions). As the chart below shows, referees began calling the penalty much more often the very next season, a 15-year high point.

And from the NY Times...

Bill Polian’s face tightened when he recalled the game. Polian, the Colts’ president, was angered by how the Patriots played. No wonder. When it was over, when Marvin Harrison had been jostled out of the game plan, when the Patriots had intercepted Manning four times, the rest of the N.F.L. had its blueprint for stopping the Colts. The Colts also had their reputation for finesse play cemented, the Patriots were on their way to building a dynasty — they went on to win their second of three Super Bowls — and the National Football League had a rules issue on its hands.

“I give the Patriots great credit for what they did,” Polian said in an interview this week. “I won’t go beyond that.”

The National Football League eventually did, with Polian’s prodding. The following off-season, the league issued a point of emphasis edict from the competition committee about how defensive holding and illegal contact would be officiated. Since then, defenders have had to be more careful about touching receivers beyond the first 5 yards of a play.


Point was just to note that when some people ramble on about how favored the Pats are by the league one can point to the fact that the entire modern era of pass defense rules were influenced by a guy who hated that the Pats beat the hell out of his team.

 

[Nahson]

I'm not a Bills fan but I'm not buying this...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/denver-fist-bump-refs

 

[Scooch]

I'm not a Bills fan but I'm not buying this...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/denver-fist-bump-refs

Yeah, in any conspiracy its best to be as public as possible in giving it away. Refs really have no idea that the cameras are on them during the game.

 

[Orangeman]

Apologies for not being more clear. Perhaps not "changes" as much as emphasis.

Per an article on FiveThirtyEight.com:

In the case of illegal contact, yes. In 2004, Indianapolis Colts general manager Bill Polian spent the offseason lobbying the NFL Competition Committee to more strictly enforce the illegal contact rule in the wake of his team’s 24-14 playoff defeat against the New England Patriots (a game in which Manning — then playing for Indianapolis — tossed four interceptions). As the chart below shows, referees began calling the penalty much more often the very next season, a 15-year high point.

And from the NY Times...

Bill Polian’s face tightened when he recalled the game. Polian, the Colts’ president, was angered by how the Patriots played. No wonder. When it was over, when Marvin Harrison had been jostled out of the game plan, when the Patriots had intercepted Manning four times, the rest of the N.F.L. had its blueprint for stopping the Colts. The Colts also had their reputation for finesse play cemented, the Patriots were on their way to building a dynasty — they went on to win their second of three Super Bowls — and the National Football League had a rules issue on its hands.

“I give the Patriots great credit for what they did,” Polian said in an interview this week. “I won’t go beyond that.”

The National Football League eventually did, with Polian’s prodding. The following off-season, the league issued a point of emphasis edict from the competition committee about how defensive holding and illegal contact would be officiated. Since then, defenders have had to be more careful about touching receivers beyond the first 5 yards of a play.


Point was just to note that when some people ramble on about how favored the Pats are by the league one can point to the fact that the entire modern era of pass defense rules were influenced by a guy who hated that the Pats beat the hell out of his team.

You do realize that all this is doing is cementing the notion that the NFL is fixed (not quite WWF, but close).

There are teams with outsized influence, outsized benefits, outsized everything. It's brilliant actually...naysayers will throw out the salary cap, which in theory should even out the playing field. But there are ways around the salary cap (don't tell me there aren't) and the subtle benefits the league can provide top-down can certainly nudge the preferred team to victory in a "game of inches".

So, 10 years ago the preferred team was Indy but they were aging and the NFL leadership (read: Television network executives and an elite cabal of NFL execs) decided to pass the torch onto Kraft's Patriots? Only providing support for the theory.

While it's fair to say the Broncos tucked their tail a bit in the 4Q, that was still a 7 point game in the end in which there was usual identifiable pattern of NFL strategy: outrageously bad judgement calls against the Bills in favor of the opponent (Pats, Broncs, etc) followed by curious late-game "penalties" against the opponent when the game is seemingly in hand and, uh-oh, the penalty stats look really out of whack both # and yards we better smooth this out.

I don't believe there was a defensive penalty on the Broncos (#2 defense in AFC) but there were 10 against the Bills (#1 defense in the AFC)...come again?

The "make-up" situation turned most hilarious late when, I think the score was 24-3 or so, the Bills completed a pass for about 20 yards and a first down.

After not finding any flaws with the Broncos D ALL DAY, the zebras erupt and throw TWO late illegal contact fouls ON THE SAME PLAY that they knew, by the time they threw them, would be negated by the fact the Bills had a first and much more yardage (only offset would have been a fumble or something).

To be fair, the zebras did manage to call a Personal Foul on the Broncos after the "Interception that bounced" that was so obvious as to be embarrassing...that's a condensed part of the field and the officials missed a ball bouncing a full yard in front of the defender, who had committed PI himself. (It was a terrible throw but whatever).

What's fascinating, is that flag FURTHER supports the strategy of only flagging the Bills' opponent when it doesn't matter. As far as that official new, the Broncs had just taken the ball and were up 14 and would win the game, so it's OK to throw that flag. As fate would have it, his compadres had missed the INT by a full yard and his penalty resulted in an offset because the Bills had been called for holding.

Anyway, all fun and games, which is what sports are supposed to be, but the NFL risks alienating parts of its fanbase with this nonsense.

 

[longislandcuse]

I'm not a Bills fan but I'm not buying this...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/denver-fist-bump-refs

I doubt there was any corruptive intent with that fist bump but why do it? Especially in a game with so many egregiously bad calls one way. The whole game was a complete joke.

If they call PI on the 4th down pass to Chandler and a Personal Foul on the headbutt to the chest of a helmet-less player on Buffalo then Ta-Da, we can move the ball down the field too.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Not that I expect to get any sympathy in a Bills thread, but the same thing happened two weeks ago when Miami played @ Denver. In the second half alone, Denver "drew" five defensive penalties on 3rd down that gave them first downs and kept drives alive. Ridiculous.

To give a little bit of balance to the convo. The Broncos were the most penalized team in the NFL as of 2 weeks ago. Now they are the 3rd most penalized team.
As for that Miami vs Denver game; Miami 6 penalties for 50 yards. Denver 9 penalties for 98 yards. Let's not get crazy...