Can any of our NBA people make sense of the Philly 76ers?

[Alsacs]

No Duncan, Ginoboli, or Leonard for SA.Parker sits out the 2nd half and Green/Aldridge play 4 minutes in the 2nd half and they beat Philly in Philly by 53.

I couldn't believe looking at their roster T.J. bleeping McConnell from Arizona is their starting PG. What the heck is going on in Philly. They have Noel/Okafor/Grant up front which isn't bad. Embiid is hurt and Saric is overseas but seriously this roster is a joke. NBA forced them to hire Jerry C so he can hire his son. Hinkie will never get another GM job with this 3 years of tanking. Honestly the NBA should personally reimburse all 76ers season ticket holders for their literally wasting money to see their team play.

In soccer teams will pay back their traveling fans if their performance is god awful. This team is an embarrassment to a sport which is actually improving slightly its dependence on superstars to be competitive.

 

[Knicks411]

No Duncan, Ginoboli, or Leonard for SA.Parker sits out the 2nd half and Green/Aldridge play 4 minutes in the 2nd half and they beat Philly in Philly by 53.

I couldn't believe looking at their roster T.J. bleeping McConnell from Arizona is their starting PG. What the heck is going on in Philly. They have Noel/Okafor/Grant up front which isn't bad. Embiid is hurt and Saric is overseas but seriously this roster is a joke. NBA forced them to hire Jerry C so he can hire his son. Hinkie will never get another GM job with this 3 years of tanking. Honestly the NBA should personally reimburse all 76ers season ticket holders for their literally wasting money to see their team play.

In soccer teams will pay back their traveling fans if their performance is god awful. This team is an embarrassment to a sport which is actually improving slightly its dependence on superstars to be competitive.

It's not really any good though. Noel and Okafor can't play together.

Okafor's off/on court stats are stunning. The Sixers have played 623 minutes with Okafor on the court, they're being outscored by 18 points per 100 possessions. In the 385 minutes that he sits, they're outscored by -0.5! There are sample size issues here, but they almost play teams even when the guy sits and they get crushed when he plays. I can't find the Noel/Okafor numbers right now, but it's similar; the sixers get crushed when the two play together.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's not really any good though. Noel and Okafor can't play together.

Okafor's off/on court stats are stunning. The Sixers have played 623 minutes with Okafor on the court, they're being outscored by 18 points per 100 possessions. In the 385 minutes that he sits, they're outscored by -0.5! There are sample size issues here, but they almost play teams even when the guy sits and they get crushed when he plays. I can't find the Noel/Okafor numbers right now, but it's similar; the sixers get crushed when the two play together.

Can't be on the court together at all. The plus/minus I believe is worse whent the two of them are out there. I think one of them will eventually be traded, and possibly both if Embiid ever gets healthy next year.

Philly ownership must be getting restless with their rebuilding plan, because they hired Jerry Colangelo yesterday.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

It's not really any good though. Noel and Okafor can't play together.

Okafor's off/on court stats are stunning. The Sixers have played 623 minutes with Okafor on the court, they're being outscored by 18 points per 100 possessions. In the 385 minutes that he sits, they're outscored by -0.5! There are sample size issues here, but they almost play teams even when the guy sits and they get crushed when he plays. I can't find the Noel/Okafor numbers right now, but it's similar; the sixers get crushed when the two play together.

I'm as surprised as many as how bad Okafor has played. Now maybe we know why he slid down the draft board like he did. I just thought he would be a much better pro and he still might be. Some teams are stuck in mire for a long time. Look how bad the Clippers were year after year. Sometimes it just comes down to having the right person make the decisions and a little luck. If I was the Sixers I don't think I would have drafted Noel and Embiid. I would have went for someone healthier who was a real play maker/scorer. Unfortunately they made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm as surprised as many as how bad Okafor has played. Now maybe we know why he slid down the draft board like he did. I just thought he would be a much better pro and he still might be. Some teams are stuck in mire for a long time. Look how bad the Clippers were year after year. Sometimes it just comes down to having the right person make the decisions and a little luck. If I was the Sixers I don't think I would have drafted Noel and Embiid. I would have went for someone healthier who was a real play maker/scorer. Unfortunately they made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.

Who exactly would you have in mind then? Guys taken shortly after Noel and Embiid in their respective drafts:

Noel:
Ben McLemore (riding the bench for Sacramento)
Kentavius Caldwell-Pope (plays a ton but isn't good)
Trey Burke (sucks)
CJ McCollum (SG with PG size, jacks a ton of shots, and doesn't play defense, but is at least scoring at a decent clip this year)
MCW (who Philly drafted anyways)

Embiid:
Aaron Gordon (I like him, but he isn't really the player you describe)
Dante Exum (I still like him, but he was dreadful as a rookie and is out this year)
Marcus Smart (Isn't really what you describe, and simply isn't on the level of prospect that Embiid was considered to be)
Julius Randle (See above)
Nik Stauskas (Is now in Philly)

I think they made the correct draft choices with the picks that they had for the most part, though I think you could certainly argue they should have traded their picks.

 

[Knicks411]

I guess for Noel you could argue they should have kept Jrue Holiday instead of trading him for Noel?

Would have been interesting if they picked second last June to see if they went Russell over Okafor. I imagine t hey would have had to.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Who exactly would you have in mind then? Guys taken shortly after Noel and Embiid in their respective drafts:

I think they made the correct draft choices with the picks that they had for the most part, though I think you could certainly argue they should have traded their picks.

You're right. As I typed that comment I was really hoping that no one was going to call me out for specifics. Obviously you still got to give all these guys at least through their rookie contracts but the 2013 draft could go down as one of the all time worst in NBA history. McCollum might be the best of the bunch but pretty dreadful from top to bottom. They took a shot at Noel and its still to be determined what his upside is but I'm pretty sure it's not Anthony Davis. 2014 there are definitely some guys who look like they might have halfway decent careers: LaVine, Hood, McDermott. It's still hard to tell, but needless to say, there is no way I would have drafted Embiid. Too many future questions about him and even though they knew they were playing for the future they left their team with too many under performing players.

We could revisit this thread in four or five years and see how many of the current Sixers are still in the league and how many breakout players from 2013 and 2104 there are.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Clearly you just don't trust the process.

 

[MCC]

Who exactly would you have in mind then? Guys taken shortly after Noel and Embiid in their respective drafts:

Noel:
Ben McLemore (riding the bench for Sacramento)
Kentavius Caldwell-Pope (plays a ton but isn't good)
Trey Burke (sucks)
CJ McCollum (SG with PG size, jacks a ton of shots, and doesn't play defense, but is at least scoring at a decent clip this year)
MCW (who Philly drafted anyways)

Embiid:
Aaron Gordon (I like him, but he isn't really the player you describe)
Dante Exum (I still like him, but he was dreadful as a rookie and is out this year)
Marcus Smart (Isn't really what you describe, and simply isn't on the level of prospect that Embiid was considered to be)
Julius Randle (See above)
Nik Stauskas (Is now in Philly)

I think they made the correct draft choices with the picks that they had for the most part, though I think you could certainly argue they should have traded their picks.

Given the high risk profile of Embiid - both navicular / foot (which is the bane of several big men) and the work ethic / personality issues at Kansas - the only reason I would have drafted him is for (near term) trade value. That said, I think an immediate trade may have tipped some potential 'buyers' off, and could perhaps a physical even nullified said trade, leaving Phila holding the bag? If I were in charge (and there are myriad reasons I'm not!) I likely would've traded the pick pre-draft.

 

[MikeSU02]

No Duncan, Ginoboli, or Leonard for SA.Parker sits out the 2nd half and Green/Aldridge play 4 minutes in the 2nd half and they beat Philly in Philly by 53.

I couldn't believe looking at their roster T.J. bleeping McConnell from Arizona is their starting PG. What the heck is going on in Philly. They have Noel/Okafor/Grant up front which isn't bad. Embiid is hurt and Saric is overseas but seriously this roster is a joke. NBA forced them to hire Jerry C so he can hire his son. Hinkie will never get another GM job with this 3 years of tanking. Honestly the NBA should personally reimburse all 76ers season ticket holders for their literally wasting money to see their team play.

In soccer teams will pay back their traveling fans if their performance is god awful. This team is an embarrassment to a sport which is actually improving slightly its dependence on superstars to be competitive.

Hinkie is guided by this:

[ ] Players are assets and having lots of assets gives you more options for trades to acquire better assets or be better positioned to get better assets. Morey did this and ended up with the team they have. However, a LOT of things had to fall into place for that to work.
[ ] The best chance to get a superstar / franchise player is through the draft.

The problem, to me, besides the obvious case that they drafted 3 centers, one offensive, one defensive and one that's chronically injured and out of shape, is that he treats the players like commodities to the point that it's basically inhuman.

I will not excuse Okafor's behavior. He is an idiot and deserves whatever punishment he gets for all the stuff hes done. With that said, what motivation does he have to work hard? The team is SUPPOSED to lose. Should I get up at 6am and workout or should I go out and drink and get laid? And what happens when you are out boozing it up and are famous? Other drunk people have access to you.

There is no structure to grow these kids as adults and barely as NBA players.

I think you saw Adam Silver step in and help with this JC arrangement because Philly is really starting to piss off the other owners in terms of acceptable strategies and lowering the gates at each of their games. The Philly games, as you can imagine, are the lowest attended when they go on the road.

Brett Brown looks like he's going to quit at halftime of some of these games. The guys know they are supposed to lose. It's awful. I know it's easy to say these guys get paid millions and should just deal with it. But a lot of these guys are young, new to real adulthood, new to the rigors of the NBA and are being treated like garbage.

Again, it's tough to feel too bad for them, but this team is doing EXACTLY what it's supposed to do. That is why Pop can sit half his team and still crush these guys.

 

[phillydad]

No Duncan, Ginoboli, or Leonard for SA.Parker sits out the 2nd half and Green/Aldridge play 4 minutes in the 2nd half and they beat Philly in Philly by 53.

I couldn't believe looking at their roster T.J. bleeping McConnell from Arizona is their starting PG. What the heck is going on in Philly. They have Noel/Okafor/Grant up front which isn't bad. Embiid is hurt and Saric is overseas but seriously this roster is a joke. NBA forced them to hire Jerry C so he can hire his son. Hinkie will never get another GM job with this 3 years of tanking. Honestly the NBA should personally reimburse all 76ers season ticket holders for their literally wasting money to see their team play.

In soccer teams will pay back their traveling fans if their performance is god awful. This team is an embarrassment to a sport which is actually improving slightly its dependence on superstars to be competitive.

And happening in arguably, along with NYC, the best grass roots basketball city in America. That is what pains me the most.

 

[Ghost]

It's fun - I mean, this is exactly how I played video games as a kid. Although I could simulate the seasons where I sucked on purpose. I guess these kids have to live through it.

There were some articles back in MCW's rookie year about how toward the end of the year he was regressing quite a bit because all Philly cared about was him winning ROY. They pretty much stopped coaching to ensure he could keep his minutes and therefore his stats up. Definitely how to run a team. They're morons. What they're doing is interesting, but they're not doing it right at all. They're doing it like it really is a video game.

Embiid is a waste.

 

[longislandcuse]

Hinkie is guided by this:

[ ] Players are assets and having lots of assets gives you more options for trades to acquire better assets or be better positioned to get better assets. Morey did this and ended up with the team they have. However, a LOT of things had to fall into place for that to work.
[ ] The best chance to get a superstar / franchise player is through the draft.

The problem, to me, besides the obvious case that they drafted 3 centers, one offensive, one defensive and one that's chronically injured and out of shape, is that he treats the players like commodities to the point that it's basically inhuman.

I will not excuse Okafor's behavior. He is an idiot and deserves whatever punishment he gets for all the stuff hes done. With that said, what motivation does he have to work hard? The team is SUPPOSED to lose. Should I get up at 6am and workout or should I go out and drink and get laid? And what happens when you are out boozing it up and are famous? Other drunk people have access to you.

There is no structure to grow these kids as adults and barely as NBA players.

I think you saw Adam Silver step in and help with this JC arrangement because Philly is really starting to piss off the other owners in terms of acceptable strategies and lowering the gates at each of their games. The Philly games, as you can imagine, are the lowest attended when they go on the road.

Brett Brown looks like he's going to quit at halftime of some of these games. The guys know they are supposed to lose. It's awful. I know it's easy to say these guys get paid millions and should just deal with it. But a lot of these guys are young, new to real adulthood, new to the rigors of the NBA and are being treated like garbage.

Again, it's tough to feel too bad for them, but this team is doing EXACTLY what it's supposed to do. That is why Pop can sit half his team and still crush these guys.

They also think that they can draft a franchise guy and then go sign some big name players or at least above average players. No, they can't and won't. Multiple players have remarked how they treat players like assets and not human beings. No one wants to go there. They are an absolute joke and are going to need about 10 things to go right to ever become relevant again.

 

[MikeSU02]

They also think that they can draft a franchise guy and then go sign some big name players or at least above average players. No, they can't and won't. Multiple players have remarked how they treat players like assets and not human beings. No one wants to go there. They are an absolute joke and are going to need about 10 things to go right to ever become relevant again.

I will be so pissed if they end up with Ben Simmons.

I absolutely cannot believe I'm rooting for the Lakers to end up with the #1 pick over someone else, but I am. Cannot have Simmons go to an org like Philly that is being run like this.

 

[Knicks411]

They also think that they can draft a franchise guy and then go sign some big name players or at least above average players. No, they can't and won't. Multiple players have remarked how they treat players like assets and not human beings. No one wants to go there. They are an absolute joke and are going to need about 10 things to go right to ever become relevant again.

Yeah it's the kind of thing that works out great if you're simming a computer game, but in real life, it's a lot harder to pull off.

That being said, if those ten things go right, and they draft Ben Simmons and he turns out to be a stud, I doubt they'll have much of an issue attracting FA. Guys want to win. But getting to that spot is going to be an issue.

 

[MikeSU02]

Yeah it's the kind of thing that works out great if you're simming a computer game, but in real life, it's a lot harder to pull off.

That being said, if those ten things go right, and they draft Ben Simmons and he turns out to be a stud, I doubt they'll have much of an issue attracting FA. Guys want to win. But getting to that spot is going to be an issue.

They aren't getting any big FA. None (and I don't mean to imply that you are saying they will get them). Bron, Steph, AD, Harden, KD, Russ, PG-13, CP3, Kawhi, Griffin... they aren't landing any of the big fish. I don't care if they draft Simmons and openly flaunt that they'll disregard cap rules and pay people under the table, no one of any significance is signing there. They'll be lucky to get a second tier star with Simmons and the holy ghost playing on the wings.

They'd have to go all in on someone who is in a situation that is so toxic they would be taking advantage of a unique situation... my ONLY guess would be landing someone like Boogie if he was so fed up with Vivek and Vlade that he demanded to go ANYWHERE else besides Sacramento.

 

[Knicks411]

They aren't getting any big FA. None (and I don't mean to imply that you are saying they will get them). Bron, Steph, AD, Harden, KD, Russ, PG-13, CP3, Kawhi, Griffin... they aren't landing any of the big fish. I don't care if they draft Simmons and openly flaunt that they'll disregard cap rules and pay people under the table, no one of any significance is signing there. They'll be lucky to get a second tier star with Simmons and the holy ghost playing on the wings.

They'd have to go all in on someone who is in a situation that is so toxic they would be taking advantage of a unique situation... my ONLY guess would be landing someone like Boogie if he was so fed up with Vivek and Vlade that he demanded to go ANYWHERE else besides Sacramento.

I think in a few years, if they land Simmons and he's a star, and the team looks like they'll be able to compete for titles, they'll be able to get guys. They aren't getting any stars next summer or anything like that.