Carmelo's the 31st best player in The Association

[Fireball Jr.]

Or so says an ESPN.com panel. #NBArank: Where does Melo fall?

I can guess some obvious ones, but who are the 30 players ahead of him?

 

[NashvilleOrange]

Seems a bit low. Where were Porzingis and D Rose? How about Derozan and Lowry?

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Seems a bit low. Where were Porzingis and D Rose? How about Derozan and Lowry?

Porzingis 33, Rose 64.

Derozan and Lowry must be on top 30 list, which hasn't been posted yet. Dion's 196, fwiw.

 

[Knicks411]

Porzingis 33, Rose 64.

Derozan and Lowry must be on top 30 list, which hasn't been posted yet. Dion's 196, fwiw.

Derrick Rose at #64 sure is something.

 

[OrangeDW]

LOL. So it begins. Yet another year where these stat geeks try to tell me things that I know aren't true.

I remember when Sports Illustrated put Terrell Brandon on the cover and called him the best PG in the NBA. Then the article tried to back that up by using what amounted to the mid 90s version of analytics. Ever since then I've never bought in. It's just another tool, it's not the end all be all of the whole friggin sport.

 

[Knicks411]

LOL. So it begins. Yet another year where these stat geeks try to tell me things that I know aren't true.

I remember when Sports Illustrated put Terrell Brandon on the cover and called him the best PG in the NBA. Then the article tried to back that up by using what amounted to the mid 90s version of analytics. Ever since then I've never bought in. It's just another tool, it's not the end all be all of the whole friggin sport.

I honestly think at this point, #31 may be somewhat defensible. That's probably on the low side, but his efficiency has dropped the last few years. I would put him better than that (20ish? i haven't thought too hard) but for instance, having Rose at #64 is much more ridiculous than where Melo is

 

[OrangeDW]

I honestly think at this point, #31 may be somewhat defensible. That's probably on the low side, but his efficiency has dropped the last few years. I would put him better than that (20ish? i haven't thought too hard) but for instance, having Rose at #64 is much more ridiculous than where Melo is

I feel like with these types of things it's always "on the low side" with Melo the last few years. Then they repeat something they heard someone else say (ball stopper, doesn't play D!), and I just suspect many of these people haven't actually watched him play a basketball game since like 2013 or something, because the Knicks have been bad.

I'm not arguing that he's top 10 anymore(a few years ago he was, when he was still near his athletic peak), but he's better than 31.

I know these stat geeks hate mid range scorers, but he's still the best player in the league at that.

 

[Knicks411]

I feel like with these types of things it's always "on the low side" with Melo the last few years. Then they repeat something they heard someone else say (ball stopper, doesn't play D!), and I just suspect many of these people haven't actually watched him play a basketball game since like 2013 or something, because the Knicks have been bad.

I'm not arguing that he's top 10 anymore(a few years ago he was, when he was still near his athletic peak), but he's better than 31.

I know these stat geeks hate mid range scorers, but he's still the best player in the league at that.

It's weird, obviously it's super early in the season but he doesn't seem to be moving the ball as much as he did last year. Assist rate is way down, turnovers are up. Last year was actually one of his better all around seasons; his best year for assists, one of his best rebounding seasons, but his scoring efficiency was down.

The year they won 54 games he was REALLY good. He's not the same athlete he was a few years ago, but if he can keep the passing and rebounding at the levels he did last year he can still help them a lot as they eventually transition the team to KP.

 

[Eric15]

If you took a poll on the hoops board and asked "who is the better player: Harden or Melo?" I bet you Melo gets a majority vote still.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's weird, obviously it's super early in the season but he doesn't seem to be moving the ball as much as he did last year. Assist rate is way down, turnovers are up. Last year was actually one of his better all around seasons; his best year for assists, one of his best rebounding seasons, but his scoring efficiency was down.

The year they won 54 games he was REALLY good. He's not the same athlete he was a few years ago, but if he can keep the passing and rebounding at the levels he did last year he can still help them a lot as they eventually transition the team to KP.

I think part of that is new players, new offense.

The 54 win season he was great, and really the season after that he was great as well. But the Knicks had a huge drop off that season and so he kindve went ignored. He averaged 27 and 8 and shot the ball well. He struggled with his knee injury even before he went out for the year in 2014-15. Then he bounced back pretty well last year, but yeah he's had a very noticeable decline in athleticism the last couple years.

 

[Melancer46]

Spit-balling (not listing them in order, and I bolded ones that I'm guessing are ahead of Melo but are debatable):

1. LeBron
2. Anthony Davis
3. Durant
4. Steph
5. Klay
6. Draymond
7. CP3
8. Blake Griffin
9. DeAndre Jordan
10. James Harden
11. Al Horford
12. Isaiah Thomas
13. Kyle Lowry
14. DeMar Derozan
15. Jimmy Butler
16. Kyrie Irving
17. Kevin Love
18. Andre Drummond
19. Paul George
20. Giannis Antetokoumpo
21. Paul Millsap
22. John Wall
23. Mike Conley
24. Kawhi Leonard
25. LaMarcus Aldridge
26. Karl Anthony Towns
27. Russell Westbrook
28. Damian Lillard
29. CJ McCollum
30. DeMarcus Cousins

 

[Knicks411]

I think part of that is new players, new offense.

The 54 win season he was great, and really the season after that he was great as well. But the Knicks had a huge drop off that season and so he kindve went ignored. He averaged 27 and 8 and shot the ball well. He struggled with his knee injury even before he went out for the year in 2014-15. Then he bounced back pretty well last year, but yeah he's had a very noticeable decline in athleticism the last couple years.

Yeah I agree he is clearly a diminished player athletically (i think his dunk totals have dropped a lot and his shooting % at the rim dropped a lot in 2015), which is why last season was encouraging to me. He can still be a very effective player with a slightly reduced offensive role where he works a little more as a facilitator and spots up for some more 3's.

 

[OrangeDW]

Spit-balling (not listing them in order, and I bolded ones that I'm guessing are ahead of Melo but are debatable):

1. LeBron
2. Anthony Davis
3. Durant
4. Steph
5. Klay
6. Draymond
7. CP3
8. Blake Griffin
9. DeAndre Jordan
10. James Harden
11. Al Horford
12. Isaiah Thomas
13. Kyle Lowry
14. DeMar Derozan
15. Jimmy Butler
16. Kyrie Irving
17. Kevin Love
18. Andre Drummond
19. Paul George
20. Giannis Antetokoumpo
21. Paul Millsap
22. John Wall
23. Mike Conley
24. Kawhi Leonard
25. LaMarcus Aldridge
26. Karl Anthony Towns
27. Russell Westbrook
28. Damian Lillard
29. CJ McCollum
30. DeMarcus Cousins

Off a quick glance I would add guys like Lowry, Wall, Derozan, Milsap, Aldridge and Love as guys that aren't better than Melo.

 

[Knicks411]

Off a quick glance I would add guys like Lowry, Wall, Derozan, Milsap, Aldridge and Love as guys that aren't better than Melo.

I think Millsap is definitely better. He's awesome. Love I think I agree. CJ McCollum isn't on your list, but I don't think he's there yet.

I think Aldridge is better?

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Here's 11-20 #NBArank: Karl-Anthony Towns knocking on door to top 10

And 21-30 #NBArank: Love, Butler in top 30

 

[OrangeDW]

I think Millsap is definitely better. He's awesome. Love I think I agree. CJ McCollum isn't on your list, but I don't think he's there yet.

I think Aldridge is better?

Yeah, McCollum I just overlooked. He's not better than Melo.

I do like Aldridge and will admit that one is debatable. I guess I don't have a problem with someone saying he's better, but personally I think Melo is a little better as he's a more dynamic, versatile player. Aldridge is a beast though, no question.

I know Milsap is a very good all around player, and has gotten better every year. Better defender and slightly better rebounder, but Melo is a better offensive player IMO. Milsap might be a better player for certain teams, but if we're just comparing one on one I think Melo is still the better player.

 

[OrangeDW]

If you took a poll on the hoops board and asked "who is the better player: Harden or Melo?" I bet you Melo gets a majority vote still.

If you polled only the people who watch the NBA, I don't think that would happen though. And I was probably one of the last holdouts(Melo was without question better 3-4 years ago in my opinion). But yeah, Harden is really, really good. I dont love his game or particularly enjoy watching him just due to certain aspects that drive me nuts. But he's very skilled and more importantly incredibly effective, especially the way the game is played right now. I appreciate his ability more than I enjoy watching him though.

 

[OrangeDW]

Melo has hit 6 straight shots. Fun to watch, he's on fire. He had a rough 3-13 start, but he's in an absolute zone right now.

 

[cuseattle]

Porzingis looks great right now also.

 

[Knicks411]

Porzingis looks great right now also.

Porzingis is just going to be so good.

Yeah, McCollum I just overlooked. He's not better than Melo.

I do like Aldridge and will admit that one is debatable. I guess I don't have a problem with someone saying he's better, but personally I think Melo is a little better as he's a more dynamic, versatile player. Aldridge is a beast though, no question.

I know Milsap is a very good all around player, and has gotten better every year. Better defender and slightly better rebounder, but Melo is a better offensive player IMO. Milsap might be a better player for certain teams, but if we're just comparing one on one I think Melo is still the better player.

Would you have Aldridge over Millsap? I would take Millsap over both LMA and Melo. I may be a sucker for guys who are good at everything though. Millsap can basically fit into any system you want to put together seamlessly.

 

[Eric15]

But yeah, Harden is really, really good.

Obviously the season is very young, but Harden is currently averaging 31 and 13 apg -- just insane numbers. I don't believe anyone has had a 30 and 10 season like that since Oscar in the early 60s.

 

[Knicks411]

Obviously the season is very young, but Harden is currently averaging 31 and 13 apg -- just insane numbers. I don't believe anyone has had a 30 and 10 season like that since Oscar in the early 60s.

Using basketball reference, there have been 6 30/10 seasons in NBA history. Oscar has 5 of them, Tiny Archibald in 1973 went 34-11 (think he lead the league in assists and scoring that year).

If you lower the search to 28-10 you get the same 6 seasons. If you lower it to 26-10, you add in Michael Adams in 1991 for the Nuggets.

Even if you go down to 23-10, you are only at 9, a Russell Westbrook and a Magic season. That seems insane to me.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Porzingis is just going to be so good.



Would you have Aldridge over Millsap? I would take Millsap over both LMA and Melo. I may be a sucker for guys who are good at everything though. Millsap can basically fit into any system you want to put together seamlessly.

I agree. I've become a big fan of Millsap.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

The entire list #NBArank 2016: Counting down the league's top 200

 

[NashvilleOrange]

Looks like they may have underrated DeRozan at 30..