Catholics vs. Convicts

[SUFaninNJ]

I apologize if there was already a thread on this. The 30 for 30 on the ND- UM rivalry back in the 80's was great. I was a college junior in early 1988 when a friend of mine who attended ND asked if I wanted to go to the game when Miami came to South Bend that fall. I told him that if he could get me a ticket, that I'd fnd a way out there. Well, he did, so I did. We went to the pep rally the night before where Lou Holtz said that Notre Dame would , "kick the livin' dog" out of Miami. Holtz never did this. He would build up any team to be the second coming of the 72 Dolphins. Game day morning at 6am or so, Kevin Holtz came barging into the dorm room yelling for all of us to get up, it's Miami Day. As we all know, Notre Dame won in a thriller by one. I stormed the field with my friend and a few thousand other students. We danced in front of the Miami bench in obnoxious fashion as we'd seen Michael Irvin do many times. Exhausted and in a drunken stupor later that evening, we could barely muster up the energy to be excited as Kirk Gbson made Jack Buck so eloquently say, "I can't believe what I just saw" as he took Eckersley deep into the Southern California night. Not a bad sports day. It was by far, the greatest non-SU sporting event that I ever attended. That 30 for 30 brought back some great memories.

 

[texascpa]

So, did you end up buying one of the shirts?

 

[FAL]

Photobucket burning couchPopcorn

 

[SUFaninNJ]

So, did you end up buying one of the shirts?

I didn't, but if I recall, my friend bought the one that Walsh made with the game ticket on it.

 

[sabach]

I bought a shirt later that year with "Catholics vs. Convicts" on the front and "Parole Denied" on the back.

 

[Hoo's That]

I watched it last night courtesy of my Tivo. All of the 30 for 30 documentaries I've watched have been superbly done with really compelling stories. I had no idea about the underground t-shirt industry/empire going on at ND.

 

[OttoMets]

I apologize if there was already a thread on this. The 30 for 30 on the ND- UM rivalry back in the 80's was great. I was a college junior in early 1988 when a friend of mine who attended ND asked if I wanted to go to the game when Miami came to South Bend that fall. I told him that if he could get me a ticket, that I'd fnd a way out there. Well, he did, so I did. We went to the pep rally the night before where Lou Holtz said that Notre Dame would , "kick the livin' dog" out of Miami. Holtz never did this. He would build up any team to be the second coming of the 72 Dolphins. Game day morning at 6am or so, Kevin Holtz came barging into the dorm room yelling for all of us to get up, it's Miami Day. As we all know, Notre Dame won in a thriller by one. I stormed the field with my friend and a few thousand other students. We danced in front of the Miami bench in obnoxious fashion as we'd seen Michael Irvin do many times. Exhausted and in a drunken stupor later that evening, we could barely muster up the energy to be excited as Kirk Gbson made Jack Buck so eloquently say, "I can't believe what I just saw" as he took Eckersley deep into the Southern California night. Not a bad sports day. It was by far, the greatest non-SU sporting event that I ever attended. That 30 for 30 brought back some great memories.

I enjoyed your post more than the two-hour show.

It was a neat story and would probably be fun for anyone who liked college football in the late '80s, but I thought they didn't handle it as well as many of the directors do. Maybe that guy was too close? The tone was weird, very apologetic.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

That was a shitty day for fans of the Athletics ... like me. Until Gibson the story line was Canseco grand slam wins game for unbeatable As.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

That was a shitty day for fans of the Athletics ... like me. Until Gibson the story line was Canseco grand slam wins game for unbeatable As.

Yeah, I totally get that. As far as memorable sports days go (good or bad), that date has got to be up there. A very memorable college football game and a memorable WS game within a matter of hours. Truth be told, I've always hated the Dodgers, so I would've been more than happy with an Oakland win. I was also hoping that Danny Jackson would somehow beat Hershiser for the Cy Young that year. Oh well.

 

[Newhouser]

it was very good but could have delved into the fact that ND was not so pure during the Holtz era. Lou and ND were just better at understanding (and caring about ) that giving lip service to ethics played better than Miami's F YOU. It's why Sosa and McGwire were loved and Bonds was hated. Minimal effort and the media gives you a pass. Hotlz was the Cal of college football. Get out just before the heat comes down.

Also Lebatard (spelling ?) had a great point about the racial connotations of the whole thing.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

it was very good but could have delved into the fact that ND was not so pure during the Holtz era. Lou and ND were just better at understanding (and caring about ) that giving lip service to ethics played better than Miami's F YOU. It's why Sosa and McGwire were loved and Bonds was hated. Minimal effort and the media gives you a pass. Hotlz was the Cal of college football. Get out just before the heat comes down.

Also Lebatard (spelling ?) had a great point about the racial connotations of the whole thing.

Chris Zorich mentioned that the Irish weren't choir boys. He should know as he was on the team. Miami basically brought that title on themselves and loved being the bad boys of college football. The focus on the piece wasn't about the Holtz era as much as it was on the game itself.I don't really see the racial angle as both teams had a mixture of races on it.

 

[Alsacs]

That TD at the end of the game wouldn't have been a catch today. Also replay today changes the outcome of that game.
The Cleveland Gary fumble is overturned and Miami kicks a FG after the Rice fumble.
Games like that are why we have replay.

 

[dasher]

Chris Zorich mentioned that the Irish weren't choir boys. He should know as he was on the team. Miami basically brought that title on themselves and loved being the bad boys of college football. The focus on the piece wasn't about the Holtz era as much as it was on the game itself.I don't really see the racial angle as both teams had a mixture of races on it.

I don't know how old you are but there was a racial angle to that game. N.D. was viewed as white and good. Miami was viewed as black thugs and bad.

 

[Briancuse]

Espn hit another home run with this one, this was the first college game I remember watching, I rooted for Miami because i liked their unis. Its amazing that the co captain of the bball team didn't get in trouble for selling the shirts, we would still be on probation if one of our players did that.

 

[sabach]

I don't know how old you are but there was a racial angle to that game. N.D. was viewed as white and good. Miami was viewed as black thugs and bad.

Tell that to Tony Rice, Rocket Ismail, Tony Brooks and Rickie Watters to name a few African Americans on the ND squad. The last two were suspended for the #1 Irish vs. #2 USC last game of the season that year. Jimmy Johnson would never have suspended his leading receiver and rusher before such a big game. The Hurricanes embraced the culture of that program, even the racial overtones that program had. Did you see the Cotton Bowl display they put on in 1991? Did you watch the U "30 by 30"? Have you had urine poured on your head from the upper deck of the Orange Bowl because you were wearing an ND jersey in the stands? BTW, Brooks was suspended for the entire 1989 season for academics. Again, something Jimmy Johnson would never have done.

 

[dasher]

Tell that to Tony Rice, Rocket Ismail, Tony Brooks and Rickie Watters to name a few African Americans on the ND squad. The last two were suspended for the #1 Irish vs. #2 USC last game of the season that year. Jimmy Johnson would never have suspended his leading receiver and rusher before such a big game. The Hurricanes embraced the culture of that program, even the racial overtones that program had. Did you see the Cotton Bowl display they put on in 1991? Did you watch the U "30 by 30"? Have you had urine poured on your head from the upper deck of the Orange Bowl because you were wearing an ND jersey in the stands? BTW, Brooks was suspended for the entire 1989 season for academics. Again, something Jimmy Johnson would never have done.

What are you talking about? I mean seriously? Did you even read or understand my post? Did you think I was saying that ND didn't have black players? America viewed N.D. as white. As good guys. They viewed Miami as black. As bad guys. As thugs. ?????? What in post disagreed with what you said? Christ.

 

[Bayside44]

What are you talking about? I mean seriously? Did you even read or understand my post? Did you think I was saying that ND didn't have black players? America viewed N.D. as white. As good guys. They viewed Miami as black. As bad guys. As thugs. ?????? What in post disagreed with what you said? Christ.

America viewed it as the Catholic school and Fr. Flanagan Lou Holtz's act verses the South Beach renegades. I mean it's pretty obvious the race of Gino Toretta and Tony Rice.

 

[Cheriehoop]

What are you talking about? I mean seriously? Did you even read or understand my post? Did you think I was saying that ND didn't have black players? America viewed N.D. as white. As good guys. They viewed Miami as black. As bad guys. As thugs. ?????? What in post disagreed with what you said? Christ.

I don't think it was as much racial as cultural.

 

[Stern]

I thought it was one of the weakest 30 for 30's ESPN has ever done. It was kind of dull and boring. Rich kid make some shirts, makes a lot of money, get some attention, school punishes him and rich kid can't play basketball...boo hoo! Now, the promo for the XFL 30 for 30 looks beyond brilliant. What scares me is Dick Ebersol's son is the one who made the XFL 30 for 30 so you know it will have a huge slant and not be completely honest and truthful cause he isn't painting his dad in a bad light, which with that his father was more of the cause of the failure than McMahon. But the promo alone was amazing!!

 

[dasher]

I don't think it was as much racial as cultural.

In this case, they were viewed the same.

 

[sabach]

What are you talking about? I mean seriously? Did you even read or understand my post? Did you think I was saying that ND didn't have black players? America viewed N.D. as white. As good guys. They viewed Miami as black. As bad guys. As thugs. ?????? What in post disagreed with what you said? Christ.

You used the words "white" and "black", and corrected a poster who was questioning the racial angle. You said, "I don't know how old you are, but there was a racial angle to that game". What did you mean?

 

[dasher]

You used the words "white" and "black", and corrected a poster who was questioning the racial angle. You said, "I don't know how old you are, but there was a racial angle to that game". What did you mean?

I mean what I said. That America viewed N.D. as white. Of course they had black players. America views Nova as white. They also have black players. America viewed Miami as black and thugs. There were cultural and racial overtones to that game. you wearing a ND hat at that game?

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I don't know how old you are but there was a racial angle to that game. N.D. was viewed as white and good. Miami was viewed as black thugs and bad.

A lot of people rooted for Miami only because they hated ND. Plus other people embraced Miami, not as thugs, but as cocky with a hint of gamesmanship. How cool was it when Miami showed up wearing army fatigues. That captured a lot of attention.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

I mean what I said. That America viewed N.D. as white. Of course they had black players. America views Nova as white. They also have black players. America viewed Miami as black and thugs. There were cultural and racial overtones to that game. you wearing a ND hat at that game?

I can't speak for the entire country as apparently you can, but I didn't view this game as black and white. Were the two schools viewed differently? Absolutely. Do the Golden Domers and their alumni and fans have a sense of entitlement and that they are better than others? No question. Miami wearing camos, running up the score and Jimmy Johnson's hair are the main reasons why I hated Miami. Call me naive, but I didn't look at them as a "black" school and Notre Dame a "white" school. If you felt that way, fine. That's your prerogative. I think it comes off as judgemental when you try and tell others what they should believe and that the entire nation views things differently than them. As I stated in my original post, I was in college when I attended the game. I'm not sure how that enters into the equation, but so be it. Though you were asking Sabach and not me, I did attend that game as a Notre Dame fan. Had they been playing Penn State instead of Miami, I would have had the same animosity for the opponent, though I'm not sure if you and 'Merica view PSU as a white school or a black school.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

A lot of people rooted for Miami only because they hated ND. Plus other people embraced Miami, not as thugs, but as cocky with a hint of gamesmanship. How cool was it when Miami showed up wearing army fatigues. That captured a lot of attention.

I couldn't agree more.