Chip Kelly out in Philly | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Chip Kelly out in Philly

How did they choke, they lost on the road to a higher seed?

I'm partially busting your chops because you're obviously a Dallas fan. I've had my b@lls busted with being a Bears fan and having Cutler as the QB. So I'm just passing it on :D
 
I'm partially busting your chops because you're obviously a Dallas fan. I've had my b@lls busted with being a Bears fan and having Cutler as the QB. So I'm just passing it on :D
without getting into another QB debate...you could do a lot worse than jay cutler as your QB.

and a lot of people busting on ya, probably are.
 
no, like when they lost at home after 13 wins to the wild card Giants.

thanks for the tix jer-uh!!

A Giant team that won the SB, so if it was a choke job, than you are saying the Giants weren't very good.
 
without getting into another QB debate...you could do a lot worse than jay cutler as your QB.

and a lot of people busting on ya, probably are.

True. I could have Eli or Rex Grossman again.

* Interesting side note. If you compare Rex Grossman and Eli Manning in 2006, Mannings 2nd season playing 16 games and Grossmans 1st season playing 16 games. Their numbers are almost identical. Eli has a slightly better QB rating by 3 - 4 points, few points better completion %, 1 TD better, 2 less INT's, and about 50 passing yards more for the season. Pretty comparable though.

Grossman was destroyed by the NFL shows for being a terrible QB and Eli, with almost the same stats was already getting a gym class hero award.

No reason to respond, just an interesting little factoid.
 
My take as an Iggles' fan: I loved, LOVED, the hiring of Kelly. It was about going from fairly consistently good to great. Andy Reid was like Bud Grant, there was just a level beyond which he couldn't reach. Lurie let him stay on one year too long as even the players had started tuning him out. Happens with everybody.

The gigantic mistake was giving Kelly the keys to the personnel car. Someone on this thread talked about giving him time to fix the o-line. But Kelly chose to not even draft an OL despite the lack of depth, and Kelly chose not to even offer Evan Mathis an extension. The starters don't suck, but their complete lack of depth was exposed. Kelly in essence created the OL problems, so how much confidence could we have that he'd correct them?

The other major problem was that Kelly turned out to be a total d-ck to the players. There's no need to coddle players, but they ARE grown men and many of them are prima donnas. Kelly chose to get rid of pretty much everybody who didn't kiss his ring. Lurie realized he'd made a huge mistake, and he decided to cut his losses. Could Kelly go to Tennessee, reunite with Mariota, and have success? Possibly. He succeeded with Reid's players for awhile.

But he'll need to change some things. His uptempo offense left his own defense with their tongues hanging out. The Iggles' defense was good the first half of the season, but they were totally gassed in the second half. And, most importantly, he'll need to really learn the lesson that system does not trump having talent. Talent is what's important unless perhaps you're Belichick, and I think that cheating is his ace in the hole. Plus, he needs to strongly improve his interpersonal skills. What he does works in college, but so far it hasn't worked in the pros. He completely lost the team. And, just like that, he was gone.
 
My take as an Iggles' fan: I loved, LOVED, the hiring of Kelly. It was about going from fairly consistently good to great. Andy Reid was like Bud Grant, there was just a level beyond which he couldn't reach. Lurie let him stay on one year too long as even the players had started tuning him out. Happens with everybody.

The gigantic mistake was giving Kelly the keys to the personnel car. Someone on this thread talked about giving him time to fix the o-line. But Kelly chose to not even draft an OL despite the lack of depth, and Kelly chose not to even offer Evan Mathis an extension. The starters don't suck, but their complete lack of depth was exposed. Kelly in essence created the OL problems, so how much confidence could we have that he'd correct them?

The other major problem was that Kelly turned out to be a total d-ck to the players. There's no need to coddle players, but they ARE grown men and many of them are prima donnas. Kelly chose to get rid of pretty much everybody who didn't kiss his ring. Lurie realized he'd made a huge mistake, and he decided to cut his losses. Could Kelly go to Tennessee, reunite with Mariota, and have success? Possibly. He succeeded with Reid's players for awhile.

But he'll need to change some things. His uptempo offense left his own defense with their tongues hanging out. The Iggles' defense was good the first half of the season, but they were totally gassed in the second half. And, most importantly, he'll need to really learn the lesson that system does not trump having talent. Talent is what's important unless perhaps you're Belichick, and I think that cheating is his ace in the hole. Plus, he needs to strongly improve his interpersonal skills. What he does works in college, but so far it hasn't worked in the pros. He completely lost the team. And, just like that, he was gone.

Huge mistake giving him the keys to the car, one of these days these college coaches need to learn, that they can't treat millionaires like 19 year olds.
 
C
A Giant team that won the SB, so if it was a choke job, than you are saying the Giants weren't very good.
they weren't.

pokes beat em 2x when it didn't matter.

Once it did, choke city...
 
My take as an Iggles' fan: I loved, LOVED, the hiring of Kelly. It was about going from fairly consistently good to great. Andy Reid was like Bud Grant, there was just a level beyond which he couldn't reach. Lurie let him stay on one year too long as even the players had started tuning him out. Happens with everybody.

The gigantic mistake was giving Kelly the keys to the personnel car. Someone on this thread talked about giving him time to fix the o-line. But Kelly chose to not even draft an OL despite the lack of depth, and Kelly chose not to even offer Evan Mathis an extension. The starters don't suck, but their complete lack of depth was exposed. Kelly in essence created the OL problems, so how much confidence could we have that he'd correct them?

The other major problem was that Kelly turned out to be a total d-ck to the players. There's no need to coddle players, but they ARE grown men and many of them are prima donnas. Kelly chose to get rid of pretty much everybody who didn't kiss his ring. Lurie realized he'd made a huge mistake, and he decided to cut his losses. Could Kelly go to Tennessee, reunite with Mariota, and have success? Possibly. He succeeded with Reid's players for awhile.

But he'll need to change some things. His uptempo offense left his own defense with their tongues hanging out. The Iggles' defense was good the first half of the season, but they were totally gassed in the second half. And, most importantly, he'll need to really learn the lesson that system does not trump having talent. Talent is what's important unless perhaps you're Belichick, and I think that cheating is his ace in the hole. Plus, he needs to strongly improve his interpersonal skills. What he does works in college, but so far it hasn't worked in the pros. He completely lost the team. And, just like that, he was gone.

Agree with pretty much everything you say with regard to the Eagles. Would add though that the problem is also Lurie. He surrounds himself with his buddies because he doesn't want to give up control. He wants to meddle like 2 other owners in the NFC East - Snyder and Jones - so he has the Joe Banners and the Howie Roseman's at his side who are either lawyers or capologists but know bupkis about football. He needs first and foremost a proven football GM to run the show. Now he has fired Kelly, which was the right thing to do, and it's back to Roseman calling the shots. This team will be in the wilderness for many years to come until Lurie gives up control.
 
Agree with pretty much everything you say with regard to the Eagles. Would add though that the problem is also Lurie. He surrounds himself with his buddies because he doesn't want to give up control. He wants to meddle like 2 other owners in the NFC East - Snyder and Jones - so he has the Joe Banners and the Howie Roseman's at his side who are either lawyers or capologists but know bupkis about football. He needs first and foremost a proven football GM to run the show. Now he has fired Kelly, which was the right thing to do, and it's back to Roseman calling the shots. This team will be in the wilderness for many years to come until Lurie gives up control.

I don't agree with this. He gave Andy Reid free reign. He allowed Roseman to be 'kicked upstairs' to satisfy Chip. I've never viewed him as a meddlesome owner. I think, though, that as he gets older and sees the number of years that he has left dwindling, he perhaps has become less patient. But he's not like Jones or Snyder at all. Having said that, I sure hope they get a real good personnel guy.
 
I don't agree with this. He gave Andy Reid free reign. He allowed Roseman to be 'kicked upstairs' to satisfy Chip. I've never viewed him as a meddlesome owner. I think, though, that as he gets older and sees the number of years that he has left dwindling, he perhaps has become less patient. But he's not like Jones or Snyder at all. Having said that, I sure hope they get a real good personnel guy.

That's my point. They've never had a "real" personnel guy and therein lies the rub. Lurie would rather have his buddies (Banner in the past, Smolinski and Roseman now) around instead of giving full control to a real GM. Just like Snyder and Jones who have done the same thing for years and years. No accident that the one team in the division that has employed a full time GM has all of the SB titles in the last two decades.

Having a coach and no football GM is generally a prescription for disaster. Only a select few have done it well. Banner and Roseman are bean counters that know the salary cap rules in and out and that's why the Eagles win the salary cap space title most years. But those two don't know much about football.

And as for Roseman he lost the power struggle with Kelly and needed to be removed. Instead he lurked behind the scenes and wreaked all sorts of havoc. From every media report I've read it is a completely dysfunctional organization.
 
They've had real personnel guys, and they had some great drafts. I remember the one where they got three real good DB's in one year. Picking McNabb when the entire city wanted Ricky Williams was inspired. Right now, Tom Donahue is the closest they've got to a real personnel guy. That was never Banner's role, he was the capologist, and a brilliant one. It's really only been since Reid's later years that the personnel people became sorta secondary.

If it's Donahue and Roseman, then I'm concerned. But Lurie doesn't really meddle, which was my point.
 
They've had real personnel guys, and they had some great drafts. I remember the one where they got three real good DB's in one year. Picking McNabb when the entire city wanted Ricky Williams was inspired. Right now, Tom Donahue is the closest they've got to a real personnel guy. That was never Banner's role, he was the capologist, and a brilliant one. It's really only been since Reid's later years that the personnel people became sorta secondary.

If it's Donahue and Roseman, then I'm concerned. But Lurie doesn't really meddle, which was my point.

He meddles in a passive aggressive way. I reviewed the drafts under Lurie's ownership. From 1996 to 2005 they were very solid. Dawkins, McNabb, Tre Thomas, Shedlon Brown and Lito Sheppard (draft you referenced etc.). That's why the Birds were a solid team that went to five NFC title games.

After 2005 the drafts have by and large been disastrous. One draft they had Maclin and McCoy the same year but there were numerous drafts that were complete washouts. Marcus Smith and Danny Watkins ring a bell? Roseman's tenure of 2010-2014 as GM represented one of the worst five year drafting periods of any NFL team. Just awful.

Tom Donahoe is an interim player personnel guy as the Eagles have already said they're looking to hire a second in command for Roseman. Under Roseman the Birds have lost or fired numerous scouts and personnel staff as word is he is impossible to work with.

Lurie should just hire a football GM and be done with it. What kind of coach is going to come to the Eagles and work for Roseman? certainly not a name guy like John Harbaugh or Sean Payton, as has been speculated. Those guys would demand full control.
 
He meddles in a passive aggressive way. I reviewed the drafts under Lurie's ownership. From 1996 to 2005 they were very solid. Dawkins, McNabb, Tre Thomas, Shedlon Brown and Lito Sheppard (draft you referenced etc.). That's why the Birds were a solid team that went to five NFC title games.

After 2005 the drafts have by and large been disastrous. One draft they had Maclin and McCoy the same year but there were numerous drafts that were complete washouts. Marcus Smith and Danny Watkins ring a bell? Roseman's tenure of 2010-2014 as GM represented one of the worst five year drafting periods of any NFL team. Just awful.

Tom Donahoe is an interim player personnel guy as the Eagles have already said they're looking to hire a second in command for Roseman. Under Roseman the Birds have lost or fired numerous scouts and personnel staff as word is he is impossible to work with.

Lurie should just hire a football GM and be done with it. What kind of coach is going to come to the Eagles and work for Roseman? certainly not a name guy like John Harbaugh or Sean Payton, as has been speculated. Those guys would demand full control.

You know a lot about the Birds. We both agree they need a serious player personnel guy. And I don't want a 'name' guy if they demand total control. Sean McDermott's name is making the rounds.
 
You know a lot about the Birds. We both agree they need a serious player personnel guy. And I don't want a 'name' guy if they demand total control. Sean McDermott's name is making the rounds.

Agreed. Would be ironic if McDermott came back given they ran him out of town as the DC by replacing him during that season with Todd Bowles. Don't mean to be a pessimist but I think the Birds are going to be in the wilderness for quite some time.
 
Agreed. Would be ironic if McDermott came back given they ran him out of town as the DC by replacing him during that season with Todd Bowles. Don't mean to be a pessimist but I think the Birds are going to be in the wilderness for quite some time.

It was tough replacing Jim Johnson, and I don't think he was ready. Sure worked wonders in Carolina, though...
 
It was tough replacing Jim Johnson, and I don't think he was ready. Sure worked wonders in Carolina, though...

Yeah maybe he deserves a shot. Of course he needs a capable person to choose the groceries as we discussed.

Jim Johnson was one of the greatest NFL DC's in history and a big part of Andy Reid's success.
 

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