Damien Alford Grad Transferring to Utah

[Millhouse]

Every new coach seems to get rid of 20 guys or so. And that was before the portal. We've seen it four times before in the last 20 years.

I know. I'm taking about the manner in which he did it. Having the talk and letting the kid save face is common. This seems unusual

 

[SuFTW]

A couple WRs, a couple RBs. We just have too many of them right now. Probably a couple offensive linemen who aren't up to what's required. And did I hear that we have 3 punters on scholarship?

Down to one punter on scholarship I believe.

 

[hungrychuck]

Pete is an opportunist and I’m pretty confident Emily was just regurgitating his information because that’s what the PS does.

Or put another way, Pete is a journalist and Emily is a journalist and each acted the way any journalist would act in pursuing a legitimate news story.

Pete did well in breaking the story. Emily didn’t get that, but she’s the beat reporter and is obligated to follow it up. Standard procedure in both cases.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I know. I'm taking about the manner in which he did it. Having the talk and letting the kid save face is common. This seems unusual

Kids are shockingly privileged these days.

 

[P Vasiloff]

Saying what has or hasn't been handled well is a matter of opinion.

What I know to be certain is that there are two sides to every story.

Actually three sides to every story. Your version, my version and the actual truth.

 

[GoSU96]

Kids are shockingly privileged these days.

Nobody should find out they have been fired on twitter.

What’s that got to do with privilege?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Nobody should find out they have been fired on twitter.

What’s that got to do with privilege?

I want the privileges of being on the football team (special dorm, food, facilities, coaching, etc.) without actually saying if I'm going to stay on the team once the semester is over.

There are 84 other guys who want his reps, if he's probably not going to be here. That's why it was right to let him go. That's what I mean by privilege. Was he just negotiating for a bigger bag?

Are you in, or are you out? Fran answered that question for him, when Damian continued to want to keep his options open.

This happens all the time with scholarship offers - we're holding this spot for you, but we're not holding it open forever. At some point, you have to make up your mind, or else we have to move on without you.

 

[GoSU96]

The board wanted a big boy football program then cry when we act like a big boy football program.

It’s not mutually exclusive to try to perform at a high level and treat your players with respect.

Why make a public announcement? No need to get under a number immediately.

 

[City of Cuse]

I’m surprised this is so hard for everyone here. We all want a big boy program but you don’t publicly dismiss a captain who for all reports has been a stand up human being. You let him go quietly into the sunset and get a better player.

 

[GHLF]

I think you have missed the point of this entire exercise.
There are ways to handle things and then there are ways to handle things.
This, and a few other things, have not been handled well.

Well, we all have to learn. It is not like he declared for the NFL, or even was transferring for pure academic reasons. This is not in any way all on CFB, Cuse football. He was wanted, he did not want us. I am beginning to understand maybe a higher road should have been taken. I certainly do not have all of the information. More importantly I appreciate all you do

 

[GHLF]

I have no idea how the conversation actually went down, but it's quite possible that Fran laid out exactly how things were going to go, and some young college kid "no way you'd do that to me" bravado came out, which is why he was "surprised" when it leaked out that he was dismissed from the program.

He's trying to build a program and a culture here and I don't blame him for not wanting to spend time and energy in the weight room and on the practice field with a kid who has expressed a desire to move on to another program. Regardless of whether or not Damien is a good kid (he is), if the mandate from the head guy is you're either all in or all out and he was trying to have it both ways, then I can't say I blame coach for dismissing him.

I'd also have to imagine that a mutual parting of ways was offered to Damien and he declined, because he still wanted to have all that access afforded to a current member of the football team while also having one foot out the door.

I was going to respond, however could not have said it better. What are you supposed to do, especially when discussions were prev made about staying or leaving. There are missing pieces here, congruency is lacking. What do you do treat him like an insider, and literally provide everything for him while he shops his services? Unless it was all about academia, right?

 

[AngryOtto]

I’m surprised this is so hard for everyone here. We all want a big boy program but you don’t publicly dismiss a captain who for all reports has been a stand up human being. You let him go quietly into the sunset and get a better player.

I do not feel they publicly dismissed him. Themel reported the dismissal. Yes the school confirmed when asked.
None of us know the whole story. If it’s like money said he was missing practices and events then dismissal is appropriate.
If he was not 100 committed to the program dismissal is appropriate.
If an employee tells you he is going to potentially leave you are not going to continue to invest in them.
Fran is instilling a new culture which according to players was necessary.
Fran made a decision. It was not initially put out by the school but put out by a reporter. Alford claims he didn’t know. That’s his side. Fran came out and was complimentary of Alford. That’s his side.
It’s over. If certain players on the team are upset they can let Fran know and move on.

 

[PhatOrange]

Actually three sides to every story. Your version, my version and the actual truth.

I think that's where "the truth is usually somewhere in the middle" comes from. ;-)

 

[phsyra]

Damien, COME BACK!

 

[SUDadx2]

Saying what has or hasn't been handled well is a matter of opinion.

When two otherwise intelligent and rational individuals have a difference of opinion in matters like this it is often because those two people possess different sets of information. Unfortunately, not all information is meant for public consumption.

I assume our moderators have different information than most of us.

 

[CA Monk]

I think that's where "the truth is usually somewhere in the middle" comes from. ;-)

That may be where it comes from, but often times there is no "other side" to an issue or argument. It's just obfuscation and bluster from one side that is patently wrong, disingenuous or self-serving. There may be 2 or 3 sides but they can be very asymmetric where one side is unworthy of exploration or just plain lying. Hence the term "you're just a lyin' fother mucker."

(none of this is directed at you personally PhatOrange. I like your posts. Just an observation of civil comportment in general)

 

[tep624]

Or put another way, Pete is a journalist and Emily is a journalist and each acted the way any journalist would act in pursuing a legitimate news story.

Pete did well in breaking the story. Emily didn’t get that, but she’s the beat reporter and is obligated to follow it up. Standard procedure in both cases.

The point is that is that the two were being referenced in this thread as if the two separate reports somehow corroborated one another - they don't when one is derivative of the other.

 

[tep624]

Emily did get verification/ clarification from someone in the program.

The program is reinforcing that dismissal is the proper term and it probably is based on the sequence of events. And Emily following up with a spokesman to confirm is a good follow-up on her part.

My comment had more to do with her reporting being effectively a second example of a public leak of a dismissal when, at the time, it may or may not have been. Her reporting wasn't - it was derivative of Thamel's and you can't use hers as a secondary backup to what he reported.

Thamel had some source - she didn't, she just had Thamel's report at the time.

 

[Cheriehoop]

He told them he was going to quit at the end of the semester. So, Fran spared him the wait. Do you want that guy still thinking he can come to practice??

The coach asked Alford to reconsider if that’s the reaction he wanted by telling him he was thinking of leaving in the future at that time or was the coach’s reaction irrelevant and his decision made? Did Alford tell the coach he would definitely reconsider, did he just say that he was waiting till semester end to decide or was he just silent after being asked to reconsider? When coach talked to him when he was first hired previously to gauge his investment in continuing with the program, which I’m assuming he did with players early on, what did Alford say, what did the coach say? We don’t know the answers but I imagine the answers within them, lies the crux. It seems that the rhetoric using the word “dismissal” which makes it sound one sided vs saying he “decommitted“making it one sided on Alford’s part, is what’s being made the issue. Should, would, a new coach wait till a player makes the decision on his own timeline, otherwise why tell the coach before he made his decision, what was the purpose, what did he want? Confusing, lots of questions, few answers , but admitting we just don’t know and maybe never will.

 

[CbusCuse]

Not bingo

IF that were the case Damien would have known he was being dismissed and would not have posted that he learned of his dismissal after the program (Fran’s program - Fran’s responsibility) went public with the action and tweeted that Damien had been dismissed.

Keep in mind, word is there are a few players who had “the talk” in December and have been allowed to stay in the program so they can put together some film before they exit the program and hit the portal. So, although Damien should have game film and shouldn’t need film from the spring to show his skills, thus asking to stay in the program while you “consider” (decision not actually made yet) wouldn’t have been out of the question.

To me (just a thought), when a player who has previously been in good standing gets a face to face meeting with the head coach (because he’s been told that’s what men do) and tells the HC that he is “considering” leaving after he graduates at the end of the spring semester, it sounds like the player is seeking some guidance, some mentorship. It appears as though he was shown the door instead of receiving any guidance. A terribly lost opportunity to help this young man. When players are graduating and have eligibility still on the table they are faced with many decisions like do I stay and pursue a masters degree here at Syracuse? If I do, which program is a fit? Or should I look at other schools that have a a masters program that better suits me?

It’s a shame this young man who in his words was “considering” his future got kicked to the curb and his business was made public. It didn’t have to happen this way.

There is a difference between the players who the staff had the talk with in December and Alford. Those were players that wanted to be here but we are telling them We are moving in another direction. But we will help you out to hopefully find something that works for you.

Sure we want to help out the kids in the program. We wanted Alford to stay and be a part of the team. He is the one talking about making the decision to leave us and to pursue something "better". I don't think we have an obligation to help kids out with that. I'm guessing the staff doesn't want that type of player around the current players. And I don't blame them. It sounds like they tried to get him to reconsider. Maybe they could have tried harder or done a better job at that but I can't fault them too much there. If we want the kid here and he is hurting us by leaving, why should we help him find another job? That doesn't make sense.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It’s not mutually exclusive to try to perform at a high level and treat your players with respect.

Why make a public announcement? No need to get under a number immediately.

Sending a message, clearly.

 

[tep624]

I have a really hard time believing that Fran would have leaked to the media that a player was dismissed before that player was informed directly. That flies in the face of basically everything he’s about and what is the point of it anyway? It literally does nothing for him. Who cares if a player whose position was heavily recruited for in the 24 class is dismissed or decides to transfer? It’s all part of a cultural change and can be explained that way irrespective of any potential negativity from the player leaving.

If that’s really the way it went down, then I’d bet anything it was a staffer either leaking that directly or talking to another party who then leaked it to Thamel. Probably someone who likes the attention from media types.

 

[rocklloyd]

I took a 24 hour break thinking this thread we be dead.

 

[qdawgg]

Kids are shockingly privileged these days.

You should meet the parents…..

 

[longtimefan]

I want the privileges of being on the football team (special dorm, food, facilities, coaching, etc.) without actually saying if I'm going to stay on the team once the semester is over.

There are 84 other guys who want his reps, if he's probably not going to be here. That's why it was right to let him go. That's what I mean by privilege. Was he just negotiating for a bigger bag?

Are you in, or are you out? Fran answered that question for him, when Damian continued to want to keep his options open.

This happens all the time with scholarship offers - we're holding this spot for you, but we're not holding it open forever. At some point, you have to make up your mind, or else we have to move on without you.

Except, you don't make a public announcement about withdrawing a scholarship offer.