Francesa says Cal cant coach. Cal calls him up

[Knicks411]

I'm also not exactly sure we can really isolate X's and O's anyway from some of the other stuff. There's much more that we don't know than we do know when it comes to something like that.

 

[Alsacs]

The race issue surely is irrelevant and should be ignored. You're a good poster but we will just have to respectfully disagree. I just happen to think motivation is a HUGE part of coaching. I understand that it's his own doing recruiting that style of player, the one-and-done stud. Getting them to play together and unselfish ball in less than a season is coaching. I would say X's and O's Boeheim and Cal are at least equal. I never meant to compare the two but we have seen articles written about coaching styles with quotes from assistant coaches on how to defend teams or scouting other teams. Numerous times other coaches have mentioned how Syracuse doesn't run many plays nor is what they do offensively anything special. Defensively, the zone is more complicated than what the masses think. Coaching in Lexington is no easy task. Most of all, as I mentioned on page 1, UK players almost always improve under him and do well on the next level. Talent yes but some of that is coaching.

JB's offensive system needs to improve from the NBA ISO we have been running when he had the proper PG he ran the transition game well. However, JB runs plays out of TOs really well, he diagnoses our opponent's weaknesses really well. I think his Xs and Os are probably an 8 or 9 out of 10. JB has only had 1 surefire NBA Superstar on his roster the last decade Carmelo Anthony and its not a coincidence we won the NC that season same with Calipari with Anthony Davis. However, Calipari has had more talent on his team than JB.

Calipari's dribble drive system is nothing more than JB's system. His defensive system is nothing special. Calipari is a slightly above average Xs and Os coach. Their is a reason JB was asked by Coach K to be part of the USA basketball coaching staff. Calipari is better now because he recruits better and motivates something that has hurt JB and SU.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm also not exactly sure we can really isolate X's and O's anyway from some of the other stuff. There's much more that we don't know than we do know when it comes to something like that.

Its not as hard as you think. Watching these teams play its obvious what systems they run, and the less reliance on elite talent shows how good the system is. I am not saying Calipari is a failure he is a better college coach now than Boeheim, but its like the old saying with Bill Belichick. He could beat you with your roster and you have his roster. The guy went 11-5 without Brady in 2008.

I don't think Calipari would do with Michigan State what Izzo has done. Izzo/Coach K/Bo Ryan are the best coaches in college basketball because they get the most of their talent and don't always have elite NBA talent each year.

 

[djcon57]

. Izzo/Coach K/Bo Ryan are the best coaches in college basketball because they get the most of their talent and don't always have elite NBA talent each year.

Bo Ryan is the best coach because he gets a bunch of bangers to play, slap fight, and hold the ball and chuck 3s...and the new age college refs let them. WHAT A COACH.

 

[Alsacs]

I

Bo Ryan is the best coach because he gets a bunch of bangers to play, slap fight, and hold the ball and chuck 3s...and the new age college refs let them. WHAT A COACH.

I'll take Bo Ryan. The dude has made the NCAA tournament every year with 1 McDonald's All-American I believe. He has gone 156–66 (.703) in conference play that is unbelievable. Ryan gets the most out of his talent year in and year out.

Bo Ryan's teams don't beat themselves they don't turn the ball over. He is getting better athletes each year now with more success. C'mon man its not an outrageous opinion and I don't like Wisconsin basketball, but yo gotta be fair in assessments.

 

[djcon57]

I

I'll take Bo Ryan. The dude has made the NCAA tournament every year with 1 McDonald's All-American I believe. He has gone 156–66 (.703) in conference play that is unbelievable. Ryan gets the most out of his talent year in and year out.

Bo Ryan's teams don't beat themselves they don't turn the ball over. He is getting better athletes each year now with more success. C'mon man its not an outrageous opinion and I don't like Wisconsin basketball, but yo gotta be fair in assessments.

So because he can't recruit as well as JB or Cal and turned his team into slap and push ball, I have to give him credit? Nah, I'll stick to JB and Cal, thanks. You have your 1 final four and nice conf record. I'll go with the 'chips.

 

[Knicks411]

The only problem I have with this is you seem to be ignoring what Cal did at Umass and Memphis. The talent he had at those schools was way below what K has had, and probably below or roughly equivalent to Izzo. (And for the record, K is my pick for best college coach of all time)

Since 1990, K has 44 Mcdonalds AA. Cal had 5 in his Umass/Memphis years. Michigan State has had 12 since 1990.

I think Bo Ryan is a fantastic coach, for sure.

 

[Alsacs]

The only problem I have with this is you seem to be ignoring what Cal did at Umass and Memphis. The talent he had at those schools was way below what K has had, and probably below or roughly equivalent to Izzo. (And for the record, K is my pick for best college coach of all time)

Since 1990, K has 44 Mcdonalds AA. Cal had 5 in his Umass/Memphis years. Michigan State has had 12 since 1990.

I think Bo Ryan is a fantastic coach, for sure.

I will give him credit for building UMass up he did that and that was amazing.

Memphis he shouldn't have had Derrick Rose to begin with and he wasn't that successful there. The Wagner team underachieved and if the NBA never did the 1 and done rule he probably never gets Evans, Rose(who he should have never had to begin with).

 

[Alsacs]

So because he can't recruit as well as JB or Cal and turned his team into slap and push ball, I have to give him credit? Nah, I'll stick to JB and Cal, thanks. You have your 1 final four and nice conf record. I'll go with the 'chips.

He is starting to recruit on JB's level and Ryan develops his players better than JB or Cal and gets most of what he can out of them. Ryan will win a NC IMO his program building has been amazing.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Bo Ryan is the best coach because he gets a bunch of bangers to play, slap fight, and hold the ball and chuck 3s...and the new age college refs let them. WHAT A COACH.

They move the ball actually. Probably better than anyone. Much like San Antonio. The rest I agree with.

 

[Full_Rebar]

96 was really a terrible FF outside of that loaded UK squad. Did any starters from the other 3 teams outside of Camby, Wallace and Dahntay Jones even play a minute in the NBA?

 

[Knicks411]

I will give him credit for building UMass up he did that and that was amazing.

Memphis he shouldn't have had Derrick Rose to begin with and he wasn't that successful there. The Wagner team underachieved and if the NBA never did the 1 and done rule he probably never gets Evans, Rose(who he should have never had to begin with).

At Memphis he went 214-67, and made 3 elite 8's, including a title game, which he was basically a few free throws away from winning a title. That's not very successful? The 2008 SU team basically had 3 Mcdonalds AA on the roster, even after Eric got hurt (Paul made it, then was taken off, count it how you want); they pretty clearly underachieved. Doesn't mean JB is a bad coach.

The Rose possibly being ineligible stuff doesn't really do much for me; I'm trying to evaluate what he (Cal) has accomplished. Rose was eligible, he did play, and regardless of what the NCAA wants to say, Memphis did win those games. Same thing with the one and done rule. So what? That was the rule, and he did get those players, and he did win games with them. Every coach would be worse if you took away their better players. Duke wouldn't have been any good if there was no one and done rule last year, that doesn't mean Coach K is a worse coach.

Just seems like you're throwing up roadblocks for Cal you aren't for other coaches.

 

[Full_Rebar]

They move the ball actually. Probably better than anyone. Much like San Antonio. The rest I agree with.

I think Stevens' Butler teams were the ones who personified the slap fight. When I think about Wisconsin, I think slow tempo.

 

[Alsacs]

At Memphis he went 214-67, and made 3 elite 8's, including a title game, which he was basically a few free throws away from winning a title. That's not very successful? The 2008 SU team basically had 3 Mcdonalds AA on the roster, even after Eric got hurt (Paul made it, then was taken off, count it how you want); they pretty clearly underachieved. Doesn't mean JB is a bad coach.

The Rose possibly being ineligible stuff doesn't really do much for me; I'm trying to evaluate what he (Cal) has accomplished. Rose was eligible, he did play, and regardless of what the NCAA wants to say, Memphis did win those games. Same thing with the one and done rule. So what? That was the rule, and he did get those players, and he did win games with them. Every coach would be worse if you took away their better players. Duke wouldn't have been any good if there was no one and done rule last year, that doesn't mean Coach K is a worse coach.

Just seems like you're throwing up roadblocks for Cal you aren't for other coaches.

I just think the 1 and done rule helped him more than coach. Obviously he is an elite college coach now, and I give him credit for UMass and Kentucky he has done really well. I can't overlook the D Rose thing he should never have played and the fact they find it out right after he leaves for Kentucky is shady.

 

[Knicks411]

Would say Wisconsin moves the ball on offense, but it holds it for a very long time each possession.

Was just re-reading the wiki entry on Rose and the SAT thing; man, is it really that hard to coach a kid up for the SAT's to get him an 800?

 

[RF2044]

At Memphis he went 214-67, and made 3 elite 8's, including a title game, which he was basically a few free throws away from winning a title. That's not very successful? The 2008 SU team basically had 3 Mcdonalds AA on the roster, even after Eric got hurt (Paul made it, then was taken off, count it how you want); they pretty clearly underachieved. Doesn't mean JB is a bad coach.

The Rose possibly being ineligible stuff doesn't really do much for me; I'm trying to evaluate what he (Cal) has accomplished. Rose was eligible, he did play, and regardless of what the NCAA wants to say, Memphis did win those games. Same thing with the one and done rule. So what? That was the rule, and he did get those players, and he did win games with them. Every coach would be worse if you took away their better players. Duke wouldn't have been any good if there was no one and done rule last year, that doesn't mean Coach K is a worse coach.

Just seems like you're throwing up roadblocks for Cal you aren't for other coaches.

The highlighted section above from your post is bunk. Do you understand why Memphis was required to forfeit games / the final four apearance?

 

[Knicks411]

The highlighted section above from your post is bunk. Do you understand why Memphis was required to forfeit games / the final four apearance?

Yeah, because they declared Rose retroactively ineligible. If he had been able to pass the SAT on his own, it wouldn't make me think Cal was any better or worse of a coach. Him passing on not passing the SAT didn't have any impact on his play on the court. Though I concede maybe that's a minority view.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah, because they declared Rose retroactively ineligible. If he had been able to pass the SAT on his own, it wouldn't make me think Cal was any better or worse of a coach. Him passing on not passing the SAT didn't have any impact on his play on the court. Though I concede maybe that's a minority view.

And why was Rose declared retroactively ineligible? Do you know the answer?

Because it is entirely germaine to what alsacs was suggesting above about how Rose never should have been eligible in the first place, had an imposter not taken his entrance exam. You can say that Rose / Cal being ferretted out later doesn't alter your opinion, but it is entirely valid to suggest that Memphis probably wouldn't have made the championship game had Rose not played--which, as it turns out, happened as a result of cheating.

 

[Knicks411]

And why was Rose declared retroactively ineligible? Do you know the answer?

Because it is entirely germaine to what alsacs was suggesting above about how Rose never should have been eligible in the first place, had an imposter not taken his entrance exam. You can say that Rose / Cal being ferretted out later doesn't alter your opinion, but it is entirely valid to suggest that Memphis probably wouldn't have made the championship game had Rose not played--which, as it turns out, happened as a result of cheating.

Considering i've been talking about in this thread and I referenced it in very post you responded to, yeah, I do know why he was declared retroactively ineligible. No real need for that.

I would agree if Rose weren't playing for Memphis then they very likely don't make the title game in 2008.

 

[Alsacs]

Considering i've been talking about in this thread and I referenced it in very post you responded to, yeah, I do know why he was declared retroactively ineligible. No real need for that.

I would agree if Rose weren't playing for Memphis then they very likely don't make the title game in 2008.

I just think you can't give Calipari credit for that team when he eventually paid 100k for his role in the Rose affair. That team should have never happened.Calipari skated pretty easy from that and went straight from that Memphis team to Kentucky.

 

[TinyManInside]

Schools don't turn each other in because almost all of them are cheating in some capacity. Ratting on another school is only going to get them to get the NCAA looking at you as well.

This. This exactly. Check Bruce Pearl for instance...

 

[RF2044]

I just think you can't give Calipari credit for that team when he eventually paid 100k for his role in the Rose affair. That team should have never happened.Calipari skated pretty easy from that and went straight from that Memphis team to Kentucky.

...where he promptly shelled out 200K to get Anthony Davis.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[Alsacs]

...where he promptly shelled out 200K to get Anthony Davis.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

He definitely gave Davis a MAX deal but to be fair that next season Calipari used his cap space on John Wall and Boog Cousins.

 

[MSOrange]

This. This exactly. Check Bruce Pearl for instance...

Bruce Pearl is just unreal. The guy was basically blackballed after the whole Iowa/Illinois situation. He gets lucky enough to make his way back and gets in trouble again! I wonder how that Auburn tenure is going to end up for him....

 

[TinyManInside]

I can't believe that assistant didn't go to the NCAA about those things Cal was doing like he's required to. I can't believe Calipari and WWW get away with that stuff. The NCAA should drop the hammer on them for all those things they were doing.

If every assistant coach went to the NCAA with something they knew about another school that they are recruiting against, you'd be left with only Patriot League and Ivy League teams not on probation. (I'm obviously exaggerating, but trust me there is a lot of cheating going on to varying degrees at varying places).

The simple answer is that college coaching is a very hard fraternity to break into and most of these guys don't want to get labeled a whistle-blower for fear of what it will do to their future employment opportunities (particularly the young assistant coaches).

And race has nothing to do with this. A dirtbag is a dirtbag regardless of what color his skin is. I could tell you some Pump Bros stories...

[I also want to point out that the assistant coach did not share SPECIFIC information on Cal's early days at UK and WWW never even came up in our conversation. So I have no idea what exactly that Cal did or didn't do, only that apparently he is not cheating now. Just relaying something that I heard from someone more plugged in than most. Take it for what it's worth.]