give the keys to howard | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

give the keys to howard

Are you serious? Maybe you just need to take a day off seriously embarrassing

Why is that?

What has Frank done this year that makes you think he's nearly as good as what some are pumping him up to be--let alone even ADEQUATE as a lead guard, running the team's offensive sets? Did you think that his outbursts and sulking showed the kind of maturity and leadership that is so desperately needed on what is shaping up to be a rudderless team needs?

There's a fine line between delusion and hoping. Nothing would be better for the team than for Frank to rise to the occasion. Sure, he's improved his outside shooting, but thus far he has underwhelmed SIGNIFICANTLY against quality competition, and questioning whether he has the tools to be an effective lead guard this season is valid given his play and conduct.

And I qualify this post by acknowledging that every season, I'm more critical of the play of point guards than other players. I'll own that.
 
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I think the guard minutes should be: Frank 32, Tyus, 24, John 18 and Andrew 6 or less. White kills the offense at the 2G IMO. You then have a PG with no one else on the floor to lean on as far as handling the ball and making a play with it. Frank is the starter and will be next year as well so I think he should be playing regular starters minutes. I think John is better suited for short energetic spurts like 3, 6min runs. Tyus is our only true 2G so he needs minutes. If he gets better then he plays more IMO.

Yes he does. I'd be happy with that, because it would improve the offensive balance of the rotation.
 
As bad as Frank was against Wisconsin, I'm still more confident in him than I am Battle. Frankly(no pun intended) the hype surrounding Battle hasn't come close to 1/10th of the results. I know he's coming off the bench and some people don't agree with that, but he struggles to finish and hasn't shown me he can handle the ball at all in traffic.
 
As bad as Frank was against Wisconsin, I'm still more confident in him than I am Battle. Frankly(no pun intended) the hype surrounding Battle hasn't come close to 1/10th of the results. I know he's coming off the bench and some people don't agree with that, but he struggles to finish and hasn't shown me he can handle the ball at all in traffic.

Agreed--he hasn't shown that at all.

Which is why even though the "best" development for this team would be for Frank / Battle to establish themselves as the starting backcourt for a variety of reasons, their respective play hasn't of late warranted that. It is going to be interesting to see how these next couple of games unfold, in terms of minutes distribution.

I knew that Battle would end up being somewhere in the middle of how poorly he's playing now and how terrific he played / shot the ball in the two exhibition games, but we need more from Battle for this team to come anywhere close to approaching it's potential.

As bad as the offensive execution has been, the defense has been porous, too. Both need to improve a ton.
 
I think the guard minutes should be: Frank 32, Tyus, 24, John 18 and Andrew 6 or less. White kills the offense at the 2G IMO. You then have a PG with no one else on the floor to lean on as far as handling the ball and making a play with it. Frank is the starter and will be next year as well so I think he should be playing regular starters minutes. I think John is better suited for short energetic spurts like 3, 6min runs. Tyus is our only true 2G so he needs minutes. If he gets better then he plays more IMO.

Good points, and it may evolve in that direction. The current reality is that Tyus is struggling in his role in half court offense -- he isn't a true 2G at this point and frankly he isn't playing that well. He is the best athlete and best dunker on the team, but that does not yet translate in the half court. Frank Howard is getting PG starts in every game -- and the starting unit is struggling at the beginning of each half.

JB is experimenting with line-ups, and undoubtedly he is force feeding Tyus and Frank in practice. He has tried Gillon and Howard in combination at the guard spots, reflecting Battle's struggles to be effective at 2G.

I expect, by March, the best combination on the perimeter will be Howard at PG, and White and Battle on the wings (comparable swing roles). But how does JB get there? Give the keys now? Or continue to adjust his combinations, while pushing Howard & Battle to develop their skills, before they get the keys?
 
Agreed--he hasn't shown that at all.

Which is why even though the "best" development for this team would be for Frank / Battle to establish themselves as the starting backcourt for a variety of reasons, their respective play hasn't of late warranted that. It is going to be interesting to see how these next couple of games unfold, in terms of minutes distribution.

I knew that Battle would end up being somewhere in the middle of how poorly he's playing now and how terrific he played / shot the ball in the two exhibition games, but we need more from Battle for this team to come anywhere close to approaching it's potential.

As bad as the offensive execution has been, the defense has been porous, too. Both need to improve a ton.
But, again, what is your alternative? In your recent posts on this topic you seem to only point out how inadequate (you believe) Frank is, and not how adequate the replacement is. Who should be getting the majority of the minutes at PG - both in terms of best option right now and as the optimal scenario to ensure the most successful-as-possible season?
 
But, again, what is your alternative? In your recent posts on this topic you seem to only point out how inadequate (you believe) Frank is, and not how adequate the replacement is. Who should be getting the majority of the minutes at PG - both in terms of best option right now and as the optimal scenario to ensure the most successful-as-possible season?

I have zero problem with the question you're asking, because both PGs have struggled.. The minutes distribution over the next couple of games will be interesting to pay attention to. On the surface, it appears that JB is more comfortable with Gillon based upon the rotations in the Wisconsin game. Is that a trend? Hope they can figure things out before UConn.
 
I have zero problem with the question you're asking, because both PGs have struggled.. The minutes distribution over the next couple of games will be interesting to pay attention to. On the surface, it appears that JB is more comfortable with Gillon. Hope they can figure things out before UConn.
RE your 2nd-to-last sentence - I would surmise that JB was perhaps feeling that way heading into the season, and maybe even after a couple of the cupcakes, but I really have to doubt he's feeling that way now. For a 5th yr PG to play how Gillon did, in terms of running the offense, against SC and 'sconny - um, I dunno, not so good...
 
RE your 2nd-to-last sentence - I would surmise that JB was perhaps feeling that way heading into the season, and maybe even after a couple of the cupcakes, but I really have to doubt he's feeling that way now. For a 5th yr PG to play how Gillon did, in terms of running the offense, against SC and 'sconny - um, I dunno, not so good...

And yet, Frank was parked on the bench both games after stinking the joint out against both, too. Against SC, foul trouble, but last game--not sure. Maybe it had to do with when Frank blew his top at JB after getting pulled that time.

To your other point, Gillon stunk against SC. Not just stunk, "deer-in-the-headlights" I'm afraid to make a play stunk. He was better against Wisconsin, and clearly better than Frank that game. However, that quote from preseason about never having run an offense before, and having to learn how to run sets made me cringe.

Hopefully, both of these guys improve--we need them both to be better. And for the record, they both ARE much better players than they've shown. The question is, can either [or both] of them be an effective lead guard who can get the team into its offensive sets when things slow down and we're forced to execute half court offense? Jury is still out on that one in regards to both players.
 
I have zero problem with the question you're asking, because both PGs have struggled.. The minutes distribution over the next couple of games will be interesting to pay attention to. On the surface, it appears that JB is more comfortable with Gillon based upon the rotations in the Wisconsin game. Is that a trend? Hope they can figure things out before UConn.

Very fair, both have struggled -- and JB as no simple fix by giving keys to one or the other at this stage. It is also a broader question of roles in the line-up (particularly at SG and SF), not only an issue of how the PGs are playing.
 
After watching Roberson the last two games I'd be bringing him off the bench and if he doesn't bring it he can sit back down for TT. Its simply way to late in the game to rely on him to come out of the gate engaged.
How is he supposed to be engaged when everyone just stands around watching a guard dribble or pass around the perimeter? Everyone makes it sound like it's just a matter of willpower and that he has some bipolar condition. I think it's easier to be locked in when you are moving with a purpose out there instead of wondering what to do next. TRob strikes me as the type of athlete that would really benefit from structured offensive sets.
 
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How is he supposed to be engaged when everyone just stands around watching a guard dribble or pass around the perimeter? Everyone makes it sound like it's just a matter of willpower and that he has some bipolar condition. I think it's easier to be locked in when you are moving with a purpose out there instead of wondering what to do next. TRob strikes me as the type of athlete that would really benefit from structured offensive sets.

Right -- it is not willpower. The turned on/turned off mantra does not take into account that some opponents are better than others in defending what Roberson can do. But I don't think he benefits from structured offensive sets -- he is a great finisher on breaks, and when guards drive and draw the defenders. He is working on his jump shot and on putting the ball on the floor, but that is not his strength. Roberson needs openings to get inside -- when opponents have a strong forward to block him out, he won't put up numbers. He makes the effort, but success depends on what is available.
 
Right -- it is not willpower. The turned on/turned off mantra does not take into account that some opponents are better than others in defending what Roberson can do. But I don't think he benefits from structured offensive sets -- he is a great finisher on breaks, and when guards drive and draw the defenders. He is working on his jump shot and on putting the ball on the floor, but that is not his strength. Roberson needs openings to get inside -- when opponents have a strong forward to block him out, he won't put up numbers. He makes the effort, but success depends on what is available.

Agreed Roberson is best in transition offensively. In the halfcourt I would think he would be best in a spread out type of offense with lots of movement and cutting. If you get him the ball while moving to the basket it maximizes his athleticism, especially if he doesn't have to dribble.
I know there are many factors to Roberson's performances. IMO there are games where he looks like a mini Denis Rodman that cannot be kept off the glass and then there are games where he looks pedestrian perusing the ball. Some games set up better for his skills than others but he doesn't bring the same level of intensity consistently from what I see. I wouldn't say he isn't trying but there are plenty of games where he doesn't seem to be as energized as we know he can be.
 
I agree with not yanking Howard after his first mistake and think we should "give him the keys" if that means have him be our primary point guard. I don't think we will confuse Frank with Pearl Washington or Sherman Douglas anytime soon but the reality is he is best option we have this year and next year and we might as well have him our there improving. I'm not quite as low on Gillon as some people but he is short and a liability at the top of the zone. I think there will be no point this season were we feel like Frank at the PG is our biggest problem.
He is a first year guy in the SU zone.
 
I agree with Jack Hall. This team has a bunch of new parts and a handful of returning players but no one to really look to on the court. Who is going to be the leader?

I also feel like the starting lineup just doesn't work. After watching Roberson the last two games I'd be bringing him off the bench and if he doesn't bring it he can sit back down for TT. Its simply way to late in the game to rely on him to come out of the gate engaged.

This would basically make White a full time forward (he's not a guard anyway) except a minute or two here and there. I'd start Battle and Howard because they are next years backcourt. Let them figure things out with Gillon as a spark plug 3rd guard. That would get all 3 more regular minutes which it looks like they need. The offense to start the game will be much better once Frank and Tyus find their rolls alongside two forwards who can shoot and Coleman who is showing some offense on the block. If Roberson or Thompson are really playing well then Lydon sees more time at the five that game when Coleman sits. You get Chukwu minutes where you can in the easy games. Maybe think about playing Thompson at the 5 some.

Back to Jack Hall's point though! Who's it going to be that takes the reigns of this team on the court? I don't see White, Roberson or Lydon being that guy, in fact they are the ones that need that guy to get them to do the following. White to play withing the offense, Roberson to play fired up and Lydon to be more aggressive offensively. To me Frank is the guy that needs to do it. He needs to look at his own play correct things and start to verbally expect that form the others. I'm not sure he's emotionally mature enough for that at this point though. Coleman can help here but he's a post guy.

Alas! a voice of reason. Bravo,this ^^^^^^^^^^
 

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