Golf Rules question

[SWC75]

There's such an emphasis on golfers not doing anything that might make the ball move prior to the shot. Why are they allowed, on the green, to pick the ball up and put it back down?

 

[br801]

There's such an emphasis on golfers not doing anything that might make the ball move prior to the shot. Why are they allowed, on the green, to pick the ball up and put it back down?

You are allowed to mark and then lift your ball on the green in order to clean it, or if it is in a position that might impede another player's shot or be a distraction to another player making a shot.

 

[SWC75]

You are allowed to mark and then lift your ball on the green in order to clean it, or if it is in a position that might impede another player's shot or be a distraction to another player making a shot.

So when they pick it up and put it back down, they are 'cleaning' their ball. Interesting.

What if they don't put the ball down on the same dimple? That was about the difference in Dustin's ball.

 

[br801]

So when they pick it up and put it back down, they are 'cleaning' their ball. Interesting.

What if they don't put the ball down on the same dimple? That was about the difference in Dustin's ball.

You have to put the ball back down in the same spot, but the ball itself need not rest exactly how it was before you picked it up. A lot of people use the brand name or other markings on the ball to help align their putts.

 

[kuethstheman]

So when they pick it up and put it back down, they are 'cleaning' their ball. Interesting.

What if they don't put the ball down on the same dimple? That was about the difference in Dustin's ball.

Your point is valid but to be able to enforce the moving-the-ball rule, you have to be strict. That is:

If you want to improve your position a little, you can easily mark the ball and put it back in a slightly different spot. The rules prohibit this but it's very difficult to detect.

If you improve your position by causing your ball to move a little, that's much easier to detect and enforce. You can't make exceptions for it happening accidentally because anyone can claim it was an accident.

Your point is valid but I don't know that there's a way to fix it.

 

[SWC75]

Your point is valid but to be able to enforce the moving-the-ball rule, you have to be strict. That is:

If you want to improve your position a little, you can easily mark the ball and put it back in a slightly different spot. The rules prohibit this but it's very difficult to detect.

If you improve your position by causing your ball to move a little, that's much easier to detect and enforce. You can't make exceptions for it happening accidentally because anyone can claim it was an accident.

Your point is valid but I don't know that there's a way to fix it.

Did the movement of Dustin's ball improve his position?

 

[kuethstheman]

Did the movement of Dustin's ball improve his position?

I have no idea. It's possible there was an imperfection in the surface of the green in the path to the hole from the original spot that that the new position avoided. It's also possible the new position was worse.

 

[upperdeck]

how much is moving worth? what if by moving a little on those greens it rolled forward 5-6 ft? you could jump up and down and make the ball move.

 

[jordoo]

how much is moving worth? what if by moving a little on those greens it rolled forward 5-6 ft? you could jump up and down and make the ball move.

Jumping up and down to make the ball move would be a penalty. If you placed you ball and then a large gust of wind moved it 5-6 ft it still doesn't help as you would have to replace the ball to the exact spot it was. You wouldn't get a penalty but you also don't get to play from the new position.

The USGA is so concerned with keeping scores around par that the greens are stupid now days. Luck comes into play way too much when hitting into greens as far as I'm concerned. They are lucky it wasn't windy because the balls would have been blowing off of those greens all day.

 

[br801]

Jumping up and down to make the ball move would be a penalty. If you placed you ball and then a large gust of wind moved it 5-6 ft it still doesn't help as you would have to replace the ball to the exact spot it was. You wouldn't get a penalty but you also don't get to play from the new position.

The USGA is so concerned with keeping scores around par that the greens are stupid now days. Luck comes into play way too much when hitting into greens as far as I'm concerned. They are lucky it wasn't windy because the balls would have been blowing off of those greens all day.

If the Thursday rains hadn't temporarily softened the course, and if they had received any kind of wind, those greens and the 25 yard wide fairways might have yielded a winning score of +15 or even higher.

 

[jordoo]

If the Thursday rains hadn't temporarily softened the course, and if they had received any kind of wind, those greens and the 25 yard wide fairways might have yielded a winning score of +15 or even higher.

They actually wouldn't have been able to play if it was windy since the balls simply would not have remained at rest in the fairways or on the greens. The USGA is so concerned about "protecting the integrity of par" on the US Open that their set up has really started to become a joke. Players are bigger and stronger, the equipment is far superior, the balls are on a completely different level than they used to be and with the technology they have all these guys have perfectly matches shafts, balls, heads ect. The game has changed its no ones fault it just has. These guys are hitting 7i when Jack would have had 4i and he was one of the longer hitters in his day.

 

[br801]

They actually wouldn't have been able to play if it was windy since the balls simply would not have remained at rest in the fairways or on the greens. The USGA is so concerned about "protecting the integrity of par" on the US Open that their set up has really started to become a joke. Players are bigger and stronger, the equipment is far superior, the balls are on a completely different level than they used to be and with the technology they have all these guys have perfectly matches shafts, balls, heads ect. The game has changed its no ones fault it just has. These guys are hitting 7i when Jack would have had 4i and he was one of the longer hitters in his day.

Oh hell, the club and ball technology has turned the game on its head. Today you probably can find a couple dozen guys at your local muni hitting the ball farther than Jack did in his heyday.

 

[jordoo]

Oh hell, the club and ball technology has turned the game on its head. Today you probably can find a couple dozen guys at your local muni hitting the ball farther than Jack did in his heyday.

I think the ball is the biggest thing. I still play blades (w/old standard loft) but I hit my irons farther than ever. The trajectory is so different than it was with wound balls and they stay in the air longer.

 

[br801]

I think the ball is the biggest thing. I still play blades (w/old standard loft) but I hit my irons farther than ever. The trajectory is so different than it was with wound balls and they stay in the air longer.

The ball is a huge factor, but today's clubs are just so much more forgiving and easier to hit, to say the least.

 

[Cowtown]

I think the ball is the biggest thing. I still play blades (w/old standard loft) but I hit my irons farther than ever. The trajectory is so different than it was with wound balls and they stay in the air longer.

The ball is a huge factor, but today's clubs are just so much more forgiving and easier to hit, to say the least.

One more thing. Have you noticed how buff some of them are anymore? Adam Scott is no Billy Casper or Orville Moody, LOL!

 

[SWC75]

They could try to control it with regulations on equipment, like auto racing does. But the racing teams don't sell race cars to the general public. The ball and club manufacturers would never allow them standardize the product for fairness. They want an advantage so they can sell their product to the public.

 

[br801]

They could try to control it with regulations on equipment, like auto racing does. But the racing teams don't sell race cars to the general public. The ball and club manufacturers would never allow them standardize the product for fairness. They want an advantage so they can sell their product to the public.

The USGA already does impose specifications on equipment manufacturers. They need to consider tightening those specifications so existing courses are not rendered obsolete.

 

[PoppyHart]

Jumping up and down to make the ball move would be a penalty. If you placed you ball and then a large gust of wind moved it 5-6 ft it still doesn't help as you would have to replace the ball to the exact spot it was. You wouldn't get a penalty but you also don't get to play from the new position.

The USGA is so concerned with keeping scores around par that the greens are stupid now days. Luck comes into play way too much when hitting into greens as far as I'm concerned. They are lucky it wasn't windy because the balls would have been blowing off of those greens all day.

I don't think this is accurate. See Billy Horschel at the Masters. Hits' third shot on green, marks ball on green, replaces ball, wind blows ball into water hazard, and ruling is he must play ball from where it ended up; i.e. penalty stroke. He did not "cause the ball" to move: it was as if the previous shot never ended, even though he had marked his ball. So, theoretically, if he was above the hole, it could have rolled into the cup for an eagle!

 

[Cowtown]

I don't think this is accurate. See Billy Horschel at the Masters. Hits' third shot on green, marks ball on green, replaces ball, wind blows ball into water hazard, and ruling is he must play ball from where it ended up; i.e. penalty stroke. He did not "cause the ball" to move: it was as if the previous shot never ended, even though he had marked his ball. So, theoretically, if he was above the hole, it could have rolled into the cup for an eagle!

Hord Hardin would have crawled back from the grave to smite him for that, LOL!

 

[jordoo]

I don't think this is accurate. See Billy Horschel at the Masters. Hits' third shot on green, marks ball on green, replaces ball, wind blows ball into water hazard, and ruling is he must play ball from where it ended up; i.e. penalty stroke. He did not "cause the ball" to move: it was as if the previous shot never ended, even though he had marked his ball. So, theoretically, if he was above the hole, it could have rolled into the cup for an eagle!

Depends on the ruling I believe. It's all BS. Either they can mark and replace or they can't.

 

[jordoo]

The USGA already does impose specifications on equipment manufacturers. They need to consider tightening those specifications so existing courses are not rendered obsolete.

Its easy. They make pro's play forged irons, steel or persimmon heads and steel shafts only. If that isn't enough engineer some sort of ball that will only go so far.

Edit: just doing it for pros would be enough for tourney play. Let amatures play with the current equipment rules. The best ams would follow suit. It might make CC events harder to manage but PGE, EURO, USGA events would all be much easier to manage especially if you are trying to protect par without making the greens put put.

 

[Crusty]

Jumping up and down to make the ball move would be a penalty. If you placed you ball and then a large gust of wind moved it 5-6 ft it still doesn't help as you would have to replace the ball to the exact spot it was. You wouldn't get a penalty but you also don't get to play from the new position.

The USGA is so concerned with keeping scores around par that the greens are stupid now days. Luck comes into play way too much when hitting into greens as far as I'm concerned. They are lucky it wasn't windy because the balls would have been blowing off of those greens all day.

If you played on greens in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s you probably wouldn't make that statement. Spikeless shoes, improved strains or grass, better maintenance and techniques have all contributed to nearly perfect conditions on courses throughout the world. US Open conditions have always been different than other tournaments.

Nothing much has changed over the years in terms of speed.
Scotland deals with much windier conditions.

 

[kuethstheman]

Nothing much has changed over the years in terms of speed.

I don't know much about this but I've always heard that the reason golfers were able to stop using their wrists in the putting motion is because the greens are so much faster now.

 

[br801]

The fairways these guys play on today are faster and more pristine than the greens of the 60s and 70s.

 

[Cowtown]

The fairways these guys play on today are faster and more pristine than the greens of the 60s and 70s.

I dunno ...

"These greens are so fast I have to hold my putter over the ball and hit it with the shadow."

~ Sam Snead