how did it come to this?

[OrangeFoo]

How did we get to the point where we have 5 players out of an entire roster that the coach is willing to trust for the entire 2nd half of a game against a cupcake like Elon who is picked to finish last in a no name conference? That five is being generous given that one of them is a 6'8" freshman who is playing only because the two guys behind him probably wouldn't play for Elon. I'd trade either of our centers for the Elon guy who scored on three straight possessions for them to start the second half.

I think Howard and Joseph have a ton of potential but Joseph's will never be realized because he doesn't see the court. In JB's defense Joseph doesn't do much with the time he does get on the court but we need to develop him. I hate to knock players but Coleman seems like he will never realize his high school rep and Obokoh is at least two years from being a liability on offense.

It's hard for me to imagine how a program at our level could end up in such dire straits. Bad luck? A few recruiting misses? Probation? It pains me that every year it seems like we never have any depth. We need to start developing our secondary players better so we have a better base to build on but I don't think the HOFer has the patience to do that.

 

[Bayside44]

We went on probation, guys leave early. Kids transferred.

 

[OrangeFoo]

We went on probation, guys leave early. Kids transferred.

But this has been going on well before last year.

 

[Dave85]

How did we get to the point where we have 5 players out of an entire roster that the coach is willing to trust for the entire 2nd half of a game against a cupcake like Elon who is picked to finish last in a no name conference?

Two reason. One, he did not want to lose the game. Two, he thinks those 5 guys will play the most minutes in Bahamas and he wanted them to have the best conditioning with game like conditions.

 

[Bayside44]

But this has been going on well before last year.

It's not that easy to solve.

The world has sadly changed - we had a 6'11'' who could barely finish and get hurt somehow be an NBA first round pick, another traded after half a season of pine and D league. Harder to recover from that stuff when the next kid isn't ready.

 

[UD1954]

I just don't think Joseph is a pure point guard and trying to make him one doesn't help the team...Kaleb needs to come in with a scorers mentality looking for his shot instead of trying to run the offense ...he can't shoot any worst then Cooney has so far this year...Cooney does help us on defense more though...give Frank the point

 

[Dave85]

It's not that easy to solve.

The world has sadly changed - we had a 6'11'' who could barely finish and get hurt somehow be an NBA first round pick, another traded after half a season of pine and D league. Harder to recover from that stuff when the next kid isn't ready.

These guys think $3 million dollars is a lot of money but it really isn't. Money is like water it drains away. If these guys want to be successful NBA players they need to be really strong, have lots of skills, and most of all have a rock solid jump shot. I think a lot of these guys leave college too soon and are not ready to compete well in the NBA.

I would like to see the NBA do what the NFL does and not take these kids until at least after their Sophomore year. It would be better for CBB and NBA games.

 

[Cheriehoop]

But this has been going on well before last year.

Both Fab Melo and Dion Waiters would have been seniors in 2014
MCW would have been a senior last year.
Jerami Grant would be a senior this year.
Tyler Ennis would be a junior this year.
Chris McCollough would be a sophomore this year.
Moustapha Diagne would be a freshman this year.

BJ Johnson would be a junior this year.
Ron Patterson would be a junior this year.

 

[Dave85]

I just don't think Joseph is a pure point guard and trying to make him one doesn't help the team...Kaleb needs to come in with a scorers mentality looking for his shot instead of trying to run the offense ...he can't shoot any worst then Cooney has so far this year...Cooney does help us on defense more though...give Frank the point

I think Kaleb is mentally challenged. He's so anxious to score and do well he makes mistakes. He just needs to simmer down and he will start doing well. He practices really hard. He seems to have the athleticism and skill. He just needs to get is mind in the right place.

 

[NKR1978]

These guys think $3 million dollars is a lot of money but it really isn't. Money is like water it drains away. If these guys want to be successful NBA players they need to be really strong, have lots of skills, and most of all have a rock solid jump shot. I think a lot of these guys leave college too soon and are not ready to compete well in the NBA.

I would like to see the NBA do what the NFL does and not take these kids until at least after their Sophomore year. It would be better for CBB and NBA games.

Eh...you're more likely to get better in the D league or Europe where you can focus 100% on basketball. Having to deal with school and NCAA practice limits isn't going to make you a better player. Plus you can actually make money in the D league and overseas.

 

[Cuse'91]

Uh, do you know who our coach is?

 

[EastCoast2]

1. McCullough injury/departure
2. Coleman injury/stunted development
3. Missing on Thomas Bryant
4. Losing Diagne
5. Tyler Ennis being very good and leaving, would have been a junior
6. Jerami Grant being very good and leaving, would have been a senior

Tough to remain elite with this string of injuries, early departures, and recruiting misses, especially with 2 fewer scholarships available to reload with.

 

[jncuse]

Uh, do you know who our coach is?

I think the answer is as simple as this. We have had other years, where we may have even been better than this year's, that JB reacts basically the same if the team is having a stinker / close game against a low level team.

We have also had our share of departures as well, so that is a valid observation made by others as well.

 

[orangehomer]

How did we get to the point where we have 5 players out of an entire roster that the coach is willing to trust for the entire 2nd half of a game against a cupcake like Elon who is picked to finish last in a no name conference? That five is being generous given that one of them is a 6'8" freshman who is playing only because the two guys behind him probably wouldn't play for Elon. I'd trade either of our centers for the Elon guy who scored on three straight possessions for them to start the second half.

I think Howard and Joseph have a ton of potential but Joseph's will never be realized because he doesn't see the court. In JB's defense Joseph doesn't do much with the time he does get on the court but we need to develop him. I hate to knock players but Coleman seems like he will never realize his high school rep and Obokoh is at least two years from being a liability on offense.

It's hard for me to imagine how a program at our level could end up in such dire straits. Bad luck? A few recruiting misses? Probation? It pains me that every year it seems like we never have any depth. We need to start developing our secondary players better so we have a better base to build on but I don't think the HOFer has the patience to do that.

you realize we are sanctioned right?

 

[stuckinbig11]

win the game

 

[Ghost]

How did we get to the point where we have 5 players out of an entire roster that the coach is willing to trust for the entire 2nd half of a game against a cupcake like Elon who is picked to finish last in a no name conference? That five is being generous given that one of them is a 6'8" freshman who is playing only because the two guys behind him probably wouldn't play for Elon. I'd trade either of our centers for the Elon guy who scored on three straight possessions for them to start the second half.

I think Howard and Joseph have a ton of potential but Joseph's will never be realized because he doesn't see the court. In JB's defense Joseph doesn't do much with the time he does get on the court but we need to develop him. I hate to knock players but Coleman seems like he will never realize his high school rep and Obokoh is at least two years from being a liability on offense.

It's hard for me to imagine how a program at our level could end up in such dire straits. Bad luck? A few recruiting misses? Probation? It pains me that every year it seems like we never have any depth. We need to start developing our secondary players better so we have a better base to build on but I don't think the HOFer has the patience to do that.

Per 40 minutes average for TC/KJ - just for fun...KJ isn't a complete dud on offense. Although he doesn't seem as confident as he did in the preseason games. He's started to get tentative with a lot of pointless dribbling, going East/West. Why we put him out there with FH yesterday baffled me. I would be keeping them with one of the Seniors.

13.6 PPG, 4.2 Reb, 3.1 assists, 3.1 steals, 3.5 turnovers, .300 3FG, .314 FG%
12.3 PPG, 0.0 Reb, 3.1 assists, 3.1 steals, 3.1 turnovers, .667 3FG, .400 FG%

Howard averages 9 assists per 40 minutes. No turnovers. Nobody else is at 4 per 40 minutes.

 

[orangefan13]

I don't think it has came to anything bad.

As for Joseph give it time his potential is based on him going for it. Playing within the offense and watching others go make big plays won't get you minutes.

Every single player on this team is adjusting to a new role this season. Every ...Single...Player.

We are 3-0 won all three games by 10 none came down to foul shots

As for Coach Boeheim developing players its this simple we play the hardest schedule of anyone in the acc during conference play we need to win these early games. It may take a loss or two to make our bench understand they need to step up but now is not the time for that. All the expert analysts who wanted to bust our schedule and give the false perception everything we played was a home game look at our schedule now.

Great post for debate but remember premature anything isn't good.

 

[Cuse'91]

Cooney, KJ, & Howard are horrible rotating to open 3-point shooters...
My finishing 5 by the end of the season, hopefully:
Pg - G
Sg - MR
Sf - TR
Pf - TL
C - DC2

 

[iommi]

My issue is that JB's substitution patterns in the first halves of our games have not made any sense. The subbing in the first half has been like the Keystone Cops. I know that JB is tinkering and trying different combinations but it's been very helter skelter. I first made that point in the chat room during the St. Bonaventure game.

At one point he had a very odd lineup in the first half against Elon that included the three freshmen plus Obokoh and one other guy (Joseph?). Where did he expect to get any leadership from? Then in the 2nd half of our last two games, he barely played the bench at all and stuck with the G, TC, TR, MR & TL lineup, as orangefoo said. I'll call that lineup: The Trusted 5.

I think these odd first half lineups have not allowed the team to get into any sort of flow. Then in the second half JB has gone primarily with The Trusted 5 because he realized the game was hanging in the balance. I know it's the non-conference but I wish JB wouldn't do the mass subbing.

I have to think in Atlantis, JB will go with a more traditional conference schedule type of pattern, where you will see Lydon probably be the first guy off the bench, followed by either KJ or FH, with CO sprinkled in. It'll be something to watch for anyway. Atlantis is like a conference tournament, with games three days in a row... so if JB doesn't want an exhausted team, he's got to play everyone.

Most importantly, he needs to include more people in the Byrnes Family Circle of Trust. It would help if he'd sprinkle in his subs better.
--------------------------
One other thing: was it ever explained why G rode the pine hard for an unusually long stretch of the first half against Elon? This seemed odd and helped allow Elon to make it a close game. This is pure speculation, but it seemed like JB may have been ticked off at G for something? Anyone know or have any guesses?

 

[MSOrange]

My issue is that JB's substitution patterns in the first halves of our games have not made any sense. The subbing in the first half has been like the Keystone Cops. I know that JB is tinkering and trying different combinations but it's been very helter skelter. I first made that point in the chat room during the St. Bonaventure game. At one point he had a very odd lineup in the first half against Elon that included the three freshmen plus Obokoh and one other guy (Joseph?). Where did he expect to get any leadership from? Then in the 2nd half of our last two games, he barely played the bench at all and stuck with the G, TC, TR, MR & TL lineup, as orangefoo said. I'll call that lineup: The Trusted 5. I think these odd first half lineups have not allowed the team to get into any sort of flow. Then in the second half JB has gone primarily with The Trusted 5 because he realized the game was hanging in the balance. I know it's the non-conference but I wish JB wouldn't do the mass subbing. I have to think in Atlantis, JB will go with a more traditional conference schedule type of pattern, where you will see Lydon probably be the first guy off the bench, followed by either KJ or FH, with CO sprinkled in. It'll be something to watch for anyway. Atlantis is like a conference tournament, with games three days in a row... so if JB doesn't want an exhausted team, he's got to play everyone. Most importantly, he needs to include more people in the Byrnes Family Circle of Trust. It would help if he'd sprinkle in his subs better. -------------------------- One other thing: was it ever explained why G rode the pine hard for an unusually long stretch of the first half against Elon? This seemed odd and helped allow Elon to make it a close game. This is pure speculation, but it seemed like JB may have been ticked off at G for something? Anyone know or have any guesses?

G had 3 fouls vs Elon.

 

[Ghost]

My issue is that JB's substitution patterns in the first halves of our games have not made any sense. The subbing in the first half has been like the Keystone Cops. I know that JB is tinkering and trying different combinations but it's been very helter skelter. I first made that point in the chat room during the St. Bonaventure game.

At one point he had a very odd lineup in the first half against Elon that included the three freshmen plus Obokoh and one other guy (Joseph?). Where did he expect to get any leadership from? Then in the 2nd half of our last two games, he barely played the bench at all and stuck with the G, TC, TR, MR & TL lineup, as orangefoo said. I'll call that lineup: The Trusted 5.

I think these odd first half lineups have not allowed the team to get into any sort of flow. Then in the second half JB has gone primarily with The Trusted 5 because he realized the game was hanging in the balance. I know it's the non-conference but I wish JB wouldn't do the mass subbing.

I have to think in Atlantis, JB will go with a more traditional conference schedule type of pattern, where you will see Lydon probably be the first guy off the bench, followed by either KJ or FH, with CO sprinkled in. It'll be something to watch for anyway. Atlantis is like a conference tournament, with games three days in a row... so if JB doesn't want an exhausted team, he's got to play everyone.

Most importantly, he needs to include more people in the Byrnes Family Circle of Trust. It would help if he'd sprinkle in his subs better.
--------------------------
One other thing: was it ever explained why G rode the pine hard for an unusually long stretch of the first half against Elon? This seemed odd and helped allow Elon to make it a close game. This is pure speculation, but it seemed like JB may have been ticked off at G for something? Anyone know or have any guesses?

Could not agree more. As for the last part, I thought it was primarily foul trouble.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Cooney, KJ, & Howard are horrible rotating to open 3-point shooters...
My finishing 5 by the end of the season, hopefully:
Pg - G
Sg - MR
Sf - TR
Pf - TL
C - DC2

I don't think Malachi is playing the two this year at all. Just a hunch, but he hasn't logged one minute there, even in the exhibition games.

 

[cuseguy]

I don't think Malachi is playing the two this year at all. Just a hunch, but he hasn't logged one minute there, even in the exhibition games.

Malachi isn't a good enough defender right now to play 2. He's even struggling at the 3, if you listen to JB.

 

[pfister1]

Eh...you're more likely to get better in the D league or Europe where you can focus 100% on basketball. Having to deal with school and NCAA practice limits isn't going to make you a better player. Plus you can actually make money in the D league and overseas.

Plus $3 million is a lot of money, especially if you don't insist on spending like a multi-millionaire.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Malachi isn't a good enough defender right now to play 2. He's even struggling at the 3, if you listen to JB.

I agree, i heard him. I was thinking more from a ball handling situation, I don't know if hes trusted to be a guy to bring it up against pressure yet.