How was Signing Day?

[gbo]

Do you guys feel good about it given the limited time the new coaching staff had?

 

[Pyle]

He seemed to get most of what he wanted and did it in a very short amount of time. Only 4 original Shafer recruits. The other 16 were all his. Time will tell the real tale.

 

[SoBristol]

Several threads on this already.
The staff did a solid job -- as strong a class as Shafer's best effort (2015), and better in several units (LB and DB). Only disappointment was at RB, WR and QB -- where the best guys are Shafer's early commits (Chapman & Neal), and people probably expected Babers would add more quality, especially with his reputation for passing attacks.
These are nits. The class was the equal of any SU class in recent years (the 2015 class with Dungey, Frederick, Clark, Strickland ... being the high water mark). It was strong in areas of concern (DE, secondary), and also provides some strength for future OL (with these recruits likely to red-shirt).

 

[gbo]

Several threads on this already.
The staff did a solid job -- as strong a class as Shafer's best effort (2015), and better in several units (LB and DB). Only disappointment was at RB, WR and QB -- where the best guys are Shafer's early commits (Chapman & Neal), and people probably expected Babers would add more quality, especially with his reputation for passing attacks.
These are nits. The class was the equal of any SU class in recent years (the 2015 class with Dungey, Frederick, Clark, Strickland ... being the high water mark). It was strong in areas of concern (DE, secondary), and also provides some strength for future OL (with these recruits likely to red-shirt).

Sorry about that. I must I missed the other threads.

It takes time. I thought the class looked pretty good all things considered.

 

[Lou_C]

While this type of class isn't going to get you competing for the ACC title any time soon, what I think is really interesting is the approach he took, basically turning the entire class over in his short time. By contrast, Bronco Mendenhall at UVA just basically signed all the kids that were committed to London and did little work himself. To me, I listen to that guy and don't hear/see the things about recruiting that I'd want to hear if I was a UVA fan. I think Fuente flipped a kid from Old Dominion as his most significant move.

The first, short class doesn't really count. The next one tells the tale. I think Saban's first class at Alabama was something like 17th. But what I see out of Syracuse's class is that Babers "gets it" for recruiting. If he pulled what you guys are saying is essentially as good a class as you've had recently, and it's mostly all his own handiwork in just a couple months? To me that indicates a guy and a staff that you're not going to have to worry about being willing to work at recruiting and understanding the prime importance of it.

Mark Richt, you know he gets it. I think the jury's still out on Bronco and Fuente's prowess/efforts, but considering you can't take much from these initial classes, I think you can feel good about Babers recruiting work ethic and commitment, and that's big.

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah - the recipe for competing with Clemson and FSU is not by out recruiting them. That may always be an uphill climb.

But I think Babers will get us into the top 30 in recruiting in a couple of years. This class is a step forward with just the school and his reputation as tools.

I think we expect to see major improvements on the field on offense within a year and a half - and that on field production + this staff's recruiting acumen + improved facilities = will have the graph moving upwards.

Overall, I'm impressed with this staff and Babers seems like a very confident charismatic coach. I don't think FSU and Clemson will have much to worry about - but NC State, Wake, BC, Ville might - right out of the gate.

 

[Ozcuse]

I look at the ACC recruiting pecking order in three tiers.

Tier I- FSU & Clemson. Miami used to be here and could be again with Richt shortly. These teams get who they want and can compete with anyone, period.

Tier II- The majority/middle of the ACC in no particular order. UNC, Lville, GT, Duke, Pitt, UVA, NCST, VT

Tier III- Unfortunately I would put SU, BC, and Wake here right now. You can argue it but proof is in the results.

We need to start competing right away in 2017 with the Tier II schools in recruiting and record-wise before we can begin to think about competing with the Tier I schools. An advantage which I hope will expedite that process is the unique identity we can sell with Dino's offense. Couple that with the Dome and being one of the few ACC schools going to Ohio and the Midwest for recruits we might be able to differentiate ourselves from the other ACC schools.

 

[TheCusian]

I look at the ACC recruiting pecking order in three tiers. Tier I- FSU & Clemson. Miami used to be here and could be again with Richt shortly. These teams get who they want and can compete with anyone, period. Tier II- The majority/middle of the ACC in no particular order. UNC, Lville, GT, Duke, Pitt, UVA, NCST, VT Tier III- Unfortunately I would put SU, BC, and Wake here right now. You can argue it but proof is in the results. We need to start competing right away in 2017 with the Tier II schools in recruiting and record-wise before we can begin to think about competing with the Tier I schools. An advantage which I hope will expedite that process is the unique identity we can sell with Dino's offense. Couple that with the Dome and being one of the few ACC schools going to Ohio and the Midwest we might be able to differentiate ourselves from the other ACC schools.

The difference between tier 1 and tiers 2/3 is way larger than the difference between 2 and 3.

Mostly in those two tiers you see 3 star guys and a 4* here or there. The difference between us and NC State this year is not vast. But the difference between Clemson and NC State? Huge.

Just my opinion - but I think we'll be in tier 2 starting this year.

 

[phil77]

If/When Babers gets us rolling I expect to be near the top of Tier 2 as a team and in recruiting.

 

[Ozcuse]

The difference between tier 1 and tiers 2/3 is way larger than the difference between 2 and 3.

Mostly in those two tiers you see 3 star guys and a 4* here or there. The difference between us and NC State this year is not vast. But the difference between Clemson and NC State? Huge.

Just my opinion - but I think we'll be in tier 2 starting this year.

It totally agree on the distance between groups.

I hope we can be in Tier II starting this year however it might take more time for the results to catch up to scheme and young players to make an impact. I believe the 2017 class will be on the low end of Tier II and high end of Tier III*. I'd say somewhere around 40-45 ranked class.


* Next year there may only be Tier I and Tier II as I think BC will probably not have the same bad luck with QB's and at some point Wake's young talent will catch up to the rest of the league. Clawson is a dick but he's not a bad coach.

 

[GoCuse14]

Several threads on this already.
The staff did a solid job -- as strong a class as Shafer's best effort (2015), and better in several units (LB and DB). Only disappointment was at RB, WR and QB -- where the best guys are Shafer's early commits (Chapman & Neal), and people probably expected Babers would add more quality, especially with his reputation for passing attacks.
These are nits. The class was the equal of any SU class in recent years (the 2015 class with Dungey, Frederick, Clark, Strickland ... being the high water mark). It was strong in areas of concern (DE, secondary), and also provides some strength for future OL (with these recruits likely to red-shirt).

Ummm, must have missed the part where they said this is the highest rated class in the Skout era.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

By contrast, Bronco Mendenhall at UVA just basically signed all the kids that were committed to London and did little work himself. To me, I listen to that guy and don't hear/see the things about recruiting that I'd want to hear if I was a UVA fan.

Bronco doesn't really enjoy recruiting. At BYU his approach was more "tell me why you should have the privilege to represent BYU as a student and athlete."

 

[Ozcuse]

Bronco doesn't really enjoy recruiting. At BYU his approach was more "tell me why you should have the privilege to represent BYU as a student and athlete."

That philosophy really only works at religious schools like BYU and Notre Dame and uber successful programs with cult-like fans such as Alabama and Ohio State.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Ummm, must have missed the part where they said this is the highest rated class in the Skout era.

That take is based upon average star rating and not national team ranking which is at 59 on today's date at TOS.

I like the class taking into consideration all of the things working against us this cycle but to compete consistently against the ACC there will need to be a consistent upgrade of talent on both sides of the ball regardless of system.

That was true of HCSS and is true for HCDB. Predictively speaking, player talent>coaching acumen.

Wins/competitiveness over the next year's is key if we ever want to get over the hump.

 

[tep624]

Ummm, must have missed the part where they said this is the highest rated class in the Skout era.

There are other reference points other than Skout you know.

 

[GoCuse14]

There are other reference points other than Skout you know.

absolutely...and we cannot know exactly how they will turn out...but even seeing these kids highlight tapes (grain of salt taken), I see this class in that light. POTENTIALLY as good or better than what we have had.

Clear glasses on.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Bronco doesn't really enjoy recruiting. At BYU his approach was more "tell me why you should have the privilege to represent BYU as a student and athlete."

Not a good recipe for success.

 

[SoBristol]

Ummm, must have missed the part where they said this is the highest rated class in the Skout era.

The Skout rating you mention is by one guy (Mike M.), who tends to be a cheerleader. It reflects average stars for 20 recruits, versus average stars for 25 recruits in 2015. The overall Skout team rating (national) is pretty much the same for 2016 as 2015.
Other ratings have us #13 in the ACC -- not much difference.
So, look deeper. Consider -- 2015 had a better QB in Dungey. Better DTs. Frederick at RB had better stats than Shaw's, and was player of the year in NYS. Strickland was highly rated. It does not detract from Babers' work to note that his predecessor did well with his final full class.

 

[Lou_C]

Bronco doesn't really enjoy recruiting. At BYU his approach was more "tell me why you should have the privilege to represent BYU as a student and athlete."

To me, the piece I read would make me cringe if I was a UVA fan (I can't seem to find it right now). This guy is just not on the modern game of recruiting in my opinion. I think he's a good coach, and on coaching alone he may have UVA to the middle of the pack in the ACC. But considering that UVA has the resources and nearby talent to theoretically be as good as they want to be, I think there ceiling will still be rather low with his philosophy. It didn't help that he insisted on coaching BYU through the bowl.

I don't think there's any doubt that Babers "gets it" and gets after it. What is the recruiting ceiling? I don't know...your geography is just such a hindrance. But even if he can get you to say, #40...combined with coaching and scheme, you can potentially make some real noise. Few of the Big 12 teams put up very good classes and are still competitive. One thing to your advantage...that ACC middle tier didn't put up very impressive rankings this year besides Duke and a pretty decent class for Pitt. BC and UVA were awful, VT and NC State didn't put up anything special, and UNC, who has put up top 25 classes in the past (with ahem, help) didn't really take a big jump off a great season.

 

[phil77]

The scout rating is not done by one guy.

 

[Lou_C]

The Skout rating you mention is by one guy (Mike M.), who tends to be a cheerleader. It reflects average stars for 20 recruits, versus average stars for 25 recruits in 2015. The overall Skout team rating (national) is pretty much the same for 2016 as 2015.
Other ratings have us #13 in the ACC -- not much difference.
So, look deeper. Consider -- 2015 had a better QB in Dungey. Better DTs. Frederick at RB had better stats than Shaw's, and was player of the year in NYS. Strickland was highly rated. It does not detract from Babers' work to note that his predecessor did well with his final full class.

It's actually relatively uncommon for coaches to put up better classes than their predecessor in their truncated first class. VT went from 29 to 41. Virginia went from 50 to 60. USC went from 2 to 8, and that's with a guy on staff and in place. South Carolina went from 21 to 26, with one of the best recruiters in the game. Missouri went from 25 to 53.

There are some exceptions, Miami and Maryland improved slightly, but both ended with a much lower ranked class than they inherited when their predecessor was fired. Harbaugh's first class at Michigan was #37.

Syracuse dropped a few spots with a class almost 2/3 the size, and a higher average rating. Babers did more than fine, and it in fact should be very encouraging.

 

[Scotch]

I look at the ACC recruiting pecking order in three tiers.

Tier I- FSU & Clemson. Miami used to be here and could be again with Richt shortly. These teams get who they want and can compete with anyone, period.

Tier II- The majority/middle of the ACC in no particular order. UNC, Lville, GT, Duke, Pitt, UVA, NCST, VT

Tier III- Unfortunately I would put SU, BC, and Wake here right now. You can argue it but proof is in the results.

We need to start competing right away in 2017 with the Tier II schools in recruiting and record-wise before we can begin to think about competing with the Tier I schools. An advantage which I hope will expedite that process is the unique identity we can sell with Dino's offense. Couple that with the Dome and being one of the few ACC schools going to Ohio and the Midwest for recruits we might be able to differentiate ourselves from the other ACC schools.

Good post. I'm no football recruiting guru, but I was surprised to see Pitt ranked in the top 30 nationally by a few services. I know Western PA has a significant amount of talent, but I feel like anything Pitt can do, we can do. Especially with Babers.

 

[orange_in_VA]

The Skout rating you mention is by one guy (Mike M.), who tends to be a cheerleader. It reflects average stars for 20 recruits, versus average stars for 25 recruits in 2015. The overall Skout team rating (national) is pretty much the same for 2016 as 2015.
Other ratings have us #13 in the ACC -- not much difference.
So, look deeper. Consider -- 2015 had a better QB in Dungey. Better DTs. Frederick at RB had better stats than Shaw's, and was player of the year in NYS. Strickland was highly rated. It does not detract from Babers' work to note that his predecessor did well with his final full class.

Mike is the Syracuse site writer, he actually has nothing to do with the rankings. Nice try though.

 

[PhatOrange]

Good post. I'm no football recruiting guru, but I was surprised to see Pitt ranked in the top 30 nationally by a few services. I know Western PA has a significant amount of talent, but I feel like anything Pitt can do, we can do. Especially with Babers.

Pitts recruits are from:

PA – 7

OH – 5

FL – 4

VA – 2

NY – 2

NJ – 2

NC – 1

IL – 1

Five 4 star kids are from IL, PA, OH, PA and OH

 

[PhatOrange]

The Skout rating you mention is by one guy (Mike M.), who tends to be a cheerleader. It reflects average stars for 20 recruits, versus average stars for 25 recruits in 2015. The overall Skout team rating (national) is pretty much the same for 2016 as 2015.
Other ratings have us #13 in the ACC -- not much difference.
So, look deeper. Consider -- 2015 had a better QB in Dungey. Better DTs. Frederick at RB had better stats than Shaw's, and was player of the year in NYS. Strickland was highly rated. It does not detract from Babers' work to note that his predecessor did well with his final full class.

Rvls has Syracuse rated the best, overall and in conference, of any ratings site. And we all know rvls does Syracuse no favors.