I look forward to when depth constraints...

[RF2044]

...don't force us to rush players out onto the field as true freshmen, when they often aren't physically ready to handle the rigors of college football.

It sure would be nice [for example] to have Julian Whigham as an experienced fifth year senior either as a starter, or as a guy who strongly enhances our depth at corner, to stabilize our secondary. Or to have not squandered a year of someone like Cody Conway's eligibility on special teams last year, when he looks like he might be a multi-year starter at LT. Or to not have to rely upon guys like Coleman / Black / Nelson to provide depth because we have nobody else at a key positional unit of need.

I'm firmly of the opinion that the vast majority of recruits we land would benefit STRONGLY from a redshirt year, and that doing so maximizes their value to the program.

Of course, there will always be exceptions--some incoming prospects will always be more "ready" to play than others--but with the type of recruits we generally land, such examples tend to be the exception rather than the norm. We're not that far away, and it will benefit us when the roster finally gets there.

 

[SoBristol]

...We're not that far away, and it will benefit us when the roster finally gets there.

Agree with your main point -- about red shirting the majority of a recruiting class, especially the linemen. Our issue has been the tattered 2013 recruiting class, prospects from the 2014 class who never made it, and the 3 DL bounced from the 2015 class. On defense, the roster gets there next season -- we have numbers back in every unit. On offense, we have issues next year at TE and WR -- otherwise the depth looks adequate, improved by 4 OL who are red shirting this season.

I hope we always land several recruits at certain positions (RB, WR, DB) who are good enough to play early. That would be a sign that our recruiting is trending better.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Unfortunately that's only going to happen when we get out of this cycle of getting a new coach every three/four years. Every time we get a new coach the recruiting strategy changes... Coach p's guys didn't fit w GROB's strategy whatever that might have been. GROB's guys, at least the ones who made it to campus didn't fit HCDM's strategy and GROB apparently took a blowtorch to out tradional recruiting grounds in NJ. HCDM was a terrible recruited and went the juco route and went the pro style route. Which didn't fit with HCSS's more spread + hybrid strategy and to compound things McFukits guys didn't fit with whatever Lester was trying to do... God knows what that was. HCSS's we recruiting, especially in our defense secondary was atrocious so now HCDB is starting over again. If he leaves in theee years again the next coach will again be playing freshmen.

 

[Crusty]

The O Line will get better with experience and I think we will do fine recruiting. The defense seems to have issues that may take longer to solve. The secondary is small and slow, which is a bad combo in the ACC. I am not as concerned with the D Line and LBs, but I don't see a near term solution for the back four. We are last or near last in the ACC in virtually every important defensive metric.

Kudos to the D for their great goal line stand and pick six, however, UCONN is something like 102nd in total offense and we let them score three point more than their average. The bad news is that we have a very long way to go before we are even an average ACC defense. The good news is when we do we are going to be awesome.

 

[CousCuse]

Unfortunately that's only going to happen when we get out of this cycle of getting a new coach every three/four years. Every time we get a new coach the recruiting strategy changes... Coach p's guys didn't fit w GROB's strategy whatever that might have been. GROB's guys, at least the ones who made it to campus didn't fit HCDM's strategy and GROB apparently took a blowtorch to out tradional recruiting grounds in NJ. HCDM was a terrible recruited and went the juco route and went the pro style route. Which didn't fit with HCSS's more spread + hybrid strategy and to compound things McFukits guys didn't fit with whatever Lester was trying to do... God knows what that was. HCSS's we recruiting, especially in our defense secondary was atrocious so now HCDB is starting over again. If he leaves in theee years again the next coach will again be playing freshmen.

That is the cycle many teams trying to get fast results get stuck in . Look at UCONN for example . Diaco gets there with a very negative situation . He gets to a bowl in his second year and loses a couple of tight games this year and many fans have turned on him over there . That team doesn't seem too far off from being a very good team . Syracuse needs a coach to stay for 5 years if he is showing any forward motion and hasn't lost the locker room . Hope Dino is that guy .

 

[Dcuse]

...don't force us to rush players out onto the field as true freshmen, when they often aren't physically ready to handle the rigors of college football.

It sure would be nice [for example] to have Julian Whigham as an experienced fifth year senior either as a starter, or as a guy who strongly enhances our depth at corner, to stabilize our secondary. Or to have not squandered a year of someone like Cody Conway's eligibility on special teams last year, when he looks like he might be a multi-year starter at LT. Or to not have to rely upon guys like Coleman / Black / Nelson to provide depth because we have nobody else at a key positional unit of need.

I'm firmly of the opinion that the vast majority of recruits we land would benefit STRONGLY from a redshirt year, and that doing so maximizes their value to the program.

Of course, there will always be exceptions--some incoming prospects will always be more "ready" to play than others--but with the type of recruits we generally land, such examples tend to be the exception rather than the norm. We're not that far away, and it will benefit us when the roster finally gets there.

Good points,although Julian Whigham...not a good example. I would take most any true freshman over him. Just sayin.

 

[RF2044]

Good points,although Julian Whigham...not a good example. I would take most any true freshman over him. Just sayin.

Disagree. Julian Whigham looked very good early in his career, then was injured, and then got put on an island last year on a lousy defense that barely generated pass rush. His struggles last year were more about the sorry defense we fielded compared to his first three years then it was about his capabilities. Just sayin.

 

[Crusty]

Disagree. Julian Whigham looked very good early in his career, then was injured, and then got put on an island last year on a lousy defense that barely generated pass rush. His struggles last year were more about the sorry defense we fielded compared to his first three years then it was about his capabilities. Just sayin.

Valid observations, but I do think he didn't progress as ever had hoped.

 

[Dcuse]

Disagree. Julian Whigham looked very good early in his career, then was injured, and then got put on an island last year on a lousy defense that barely generated pass rush. His struggles last year were more about the sorry defense we fielded compared to his first three years then it was about his capabilities. Just sayin.

I'm not saying that his level of play didn't fall off because of injuries,I think it did. That stinks for the kid and it wasn't my intention to disparage the guy. I communicated it poorly. However Julian couldn't cover people at the end of his career here and it had nothing to do with the defense we were playing.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Generally I prefer we redshirt most incoming players, but if a guy's going to play as a true freshman he's really got to play. And I don't mean special teams, he's got to be on the 2 deep and get snaps every game. It seems like a lot of our freshman contributors get cast in limited roles that are very specific because we haven't developed the upperclassmen depth to keep them off the field.

 

[OttoMets]

Forget Whigham, I wish we had another year of Wayne Morgan to help this depleted group.

Wait, he's still on the roster?

 

[Chip]

The two most recent cases of guys who played sparingly as true frosh but had great 4th years were Macky and Reddish. Each could have made the team much better if they had that 5th year.

 

[SoBristol]

The O Line will get better with experience and I think we will do fine recruiting. The defense seems to have issues that may take longer to solve. The secondary is small and slow, which is a bad combo in the ACC. I am not as concerned with the D Line and LBs, but I don't see a near term solution for the back four. We are last or near last in the ACC in virtually every important defensive metric.

...

We have adequate numbers in the back four, and a few of the smaller guys have had decent game or two (Cordy, Ellison, Hudson), but don't match up against elite opponents (Louisville). The fix is the emergence of one of the current frosh, or one recruit in the 2017 class, plus a grad transfer (like the ND grad transfer who started in Dino's 2015 secondary).
I wouldn't single out the secondary or the defense. We don't have ACC level talent in the OL, and did not in the WR unit before the upgrade Babers accomplished by bringing in Amba Etta Tawo. RBs -- similar situation, where we could use an upgrade to get closer to what other ACC teams have.

What I am talking about isn't depth, so much as the first line talent.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Have some players chosen Syracuse because other programs might have forced them to redshirt?

 

[dasher]

That is the cycle many teams trying to get fast results get stuck in . Look at UCONN for example . Diaco gets there with a very negative situation . He gets to a bowl in his second year and loses a couple of tight games this year and many fans have turned on him over there . That team doesn't seem too far off from being a very good team . Syracuse needs a coach to stay for 5 years if he is showing any forward motion and hasn't lost the locker room . Hope Dino is that guy .

UConn is a long way from being a very good team. Very slow.

 

[RF2044]

We have adequate numbers in the back four, and a few of the smaller guys have had decent game or two (Cordy, Ellison, Hudson), but don't match up against elite opponents (Louisville). The fix is the emergence of one of the current frosh, or one recruit in the 2017 class, plus a grad transfer (like the ND grad transfer who started in Dino's 2015 secondary).
I wouldn't single out the secondary or the defense. We don't have ACC level talent in the OL, and did not in the WR unit before the upgrade Babers accomplished by bringing in Amba Etta Tawo. RBs -- similar situation, where we could use an upgrade to get closer to what other ACC teams have.

What I am talking about isn't depth, so much as the first line talent.

Would LOVE to see us land a 5th year grad transfer to play FS or CB this offseason, immediately solidifying one of those positions.

 

[Ish88888]

Disagree. Julian Whigham looked very good early in his career, then was injured, and then got put on an island last year on a lousy defense that barely generated pass rush. His struggles last year were more about the sorry defense we fielded compared to his first three years then it was about his capabilities. Just sayin.

Whigham regressed from his freshman year. He seriously hot worse year after year.

 

[RF2044]

Whigham regressed from his freshman year. He seriously hot worse year after year.

Must have been the Tampa 2.

 

[Ish88888]

Must have been the Tampa 2.

Ignorant response since the t2 came in this year.

 

[Deano]

Ignorant response since the t2 came in this year.

I believe that was tongue in cheek by RF.

 

[RF2044]

Ignorant response since the t2 came in this year.

Oh Lord