I think I've figured this out a little bit...ACC expansion...

Discussion in 'Syracuse Football Board' started by Jake, Sep 18, 2011.

  1. Jake

    Jake Mod Staff Member

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    As of this afternoon, I think I've figured out Swofford's #1 motivation in adding Pitt and Syracuse. First you have to go back to last year and all the talk when Nebraska was being lured to the Big 10. When rumors were swirling about a massive change in the landscape, schools were all making secret alliances.

    The one constant that I was hearing about Syracuse, was that we were tied to ND, I think it even leaked publically at one point. The thought was that we were tying ourselves to ND...but I think it was the other way around. ND was tying itself to Syracuse and Pitt - thinking that where ever ND went, they wanted to have at least one other small private school with it and there is also some connection to Pitt that ND has kept sacred over the years.

    So what Swofford did was take away ND's security blankets and has now put ND on an island...and increased his chances of landing them. This completely explains Swarbick's reaction to yesterday's move. ("This was not any of the scenarios that I had predicted"..because he thought that he was tied to Pitt and SU). There is no doubt in my mind that teams #15 and #16 will come from the very small pool of ND, Rutgers and UCONN. UCONN is doing what it can to be #15, because I think everyone realizes that slot #16 will be held out for ND until the very last minute.

    Here's why this gets really dangerous for Rutgers...as much as we or Rutgers like to say we carry the NYC market...well the truth is...ND carries it much better..so Swofford takes UCONN at #15 and then has nothing but a win-win situation left for spot #16. I think he knows that there are no scenarios where ND AND Rutgers go to the big ten...because the big ten knows that if they get ND, they have the NYC market and don't need Rutgers and if the Big Ten can't get ND...i'm not sure they excpand at all and take another mouth to feed without adding any revenue.

    I now think the ND and Texas to the ACC for all sports but football was a Texas bluff in order to get a better deal out of the Pac soon to be 16.

    Once Texas goes to the Pac 16, ND's chances of staying independant go up in smoke. 64 seats will be in the BCS party...and none of them are going to be willing to hold a special spot for ND now that Texas is in the fold.

    Now ND has a choice to make. Go to the Big Ten and really be a fish out of water...or go to the ACC where the fit seems much better.

    As a complete unreleated side note...TCU got . . . . . . by Marinetto. Completely and utterly F*cked. They would have probably been a player to get into the SEC with Texas aTm. Feel awful for them...they were rescued from a sinking ship, but their helicopter just crashed.
     
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  2. 44cuse

    44cuse All Conference

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    +1

    That feels like the landscape to me.

    44cuse
     
  3. jordoo

    jordoo Living Legend

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    At his point I'm hoping we (as in the ACC, how weird is that sheet) lock up UConn and ND follows.
     
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  4. cuseguy

    cuseguy Hall of Fame

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    Thinking seems spot on.

    Let's see if ND is willing to give up its indepedence in football. That's a big leap for them.

    In the end, I hope it's Rutgers and UConn because it creates a nice group of Northeast schools with SU, Pitt and BC (plus Maryland).

    That's what I envisioned would happen many years ago: an eastern seaboard conference.

    Let ND stay indy in football and remain with the catholic schools (and likely others) in a Big East basketball onlies league.
     
  5. DomeStranger

    DomeStranger Starter

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    I can agree with this scenario ... I definitely think part of the ACC's motives were to c0ck block the Big 10 from the East Coast.

    However ... I believe TCU will be able to go where it pleases. They can probably get out of it's contract with the BE by arguing that this is not the conference they signed up for.

    I wouldn't even be surprised if the have a certain clause for this scenario. If there isn't then they are probably part responsible for not seeing a situation like this coming.
     
  6. HtownOrange

    HtownOrange All American

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    The Texas to the ACC rumor was "leaked" by Chip Brown and picked up by Andy Katz. CB is a UT lackey. Texas probably never had intentions of going east, west was realistic. Texas knew that the ACC would never accept Tech, like the B1G.

    I agree that Swofford may have in mind tightening the noose around ND's neck, so to speak. But I'm not sure this forces ND's hand. As long as ND has a decent conference in which to dump all sports not called football, they will. Even if Big East football is not salvaged (some conglomeration of the BE and B12 leftovers into an AQ conference), the BE basketball schools are quite a viable conference in basketball and other sports. Add a few more basketball schools and it may still be among the most powerful basketball conferences. As we speak, there are only 4 decent basketball teams in the ACC. The ACC needs to step it up in their traditional strong suit (Yes, Maryland, NCState, Wake, UVA, I'm talking to you!).

    Still. the loss of two schools which ND has wanted to associate with in all sports does limit ND's choices. Who knows, maybe Swofford gets lucky.
     
  7. kyleslamb

    kyleslamb Scout Team

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    Notre Dame a fish out of water in the Big Ten?

    With all due respect... Notre Dame has been involved with Purdue, Michigan and Michigan State for many years. The Big East was something of a newer thing for them. The only reason they were hitched to those schools is hoping they could preserve independence, not because of loyalty to the schools themselves.

    They've played their Big Ten rivals (UM, MSU and Purdue) over 190 times combined, with potential, natural rivalries awaiting against Ohio State, Penn State and Northwestern plus being able to participate in the newly formed Big Ten hockey conference. They've played all the Big East football teams combined less than 100 times.

    To say they're a fish out of water in the Big Ten is ridiculously inaccurate. Heck, their faculty dearly wants to join the Big Ten because of the relationship with the CIC and what it would mean to institutional research.

    The only reason they were in the Big East to begin with is simply because they needed a place to park their conference sports so they can share in the Men's Basketball Fund. The Big Ten wouldn't let them be an associate member, so they had to find someone who would.
     
  8. MiniCuse

    MiniCuse Starter

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    Either way it plays out, the ACC wins. The question is how badly does ND want to stay football independent. With their other sports home gone I think they absolutely have no choice but to consider joining a conference. The ACC is a much better fit academically and athletically for the Irish than the Big 10. I was thinking before that UCONN and Rutgers would finish the ACC expansion but now I'm not so sure. UCONN/Rutgers is strong but ND/UCONN would be a great final piece to a fantastic eastern conference.
     
  9. supp

    supp Starter

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    Ideal outcome:

    ACC:
    SU
    Pitt
    UConn
    ND

    B1G (stops at 14):
    KU
    MU

    SEC (stops at 14):
    TAMU
    WVU

    PAC16:
    TT
    UT-A
    OU
    OSU

    Nightmare scenario:

    ACC:
    SU
    Pitt
    L'ville
    KU
    MU
    USF

    B1G:
    UMd
    UVA
    ND
    RU

    SEC:
    FSU
    VT
    TAMU
    WVU

    PAC16:
    TT
    UT-A
    OU
    OSU

    More teams in the clear with the nightmare scenario but ACC is decimated and clearly the weak sister there.

    Hate to say it but ND is the linchpin here. If they come to the ACC, the conference will remain intact. No one would want to leave that lineup. Don't feel so good about it, though, if the SEC and B1G are intent on going to 16 (with or without ND). I think Swofford understands this too, and the annexation of SU and Pitt is more bait to get them to commit.
     
  10. OrlandoCuse

    OrlandoCuse All Conference

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    While getting ND for all sports would be a major coup for the ACC, I'm not too sure the ND alum base would be thrilled with it.

    They want to protect their annual games with USC, Michigan, Mich State and possibly Purdue. Going to the ACC kills a few of those games each year. Going to the B1G keeps those games going.

    ND is a difficult one to figure out. They clearly bring a lot of clout and lock up NYC for the ACC, but I'm not sure they are the best fit.
     
  11. jordoo

    jordoo Living Legend

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    They cannot stay independent. They have known this for a while and planned on going to the BIG10 eventually, but now with the ACC adding SU/Pitt the timetable has changed and they are now in the same boat as anyone else . . . . . better get one of those 64 seats.
     
  12. Jake

    Jake Mod Staff Member

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    I don't think you understand the whole point of the superconferences. The goal is to get to four 16 team conferences and then hold a two weekend National Championship playoff system. The winner of each conference gets in. If you ain't in one of those conferences, you ain't gonna play for a National Championship. If ND is independent, no one is gonna want to play for them.
     
  13. Toga

    Toga Living Legend

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    You may be on to something here. The ND AD said the "seismic thing" last year. Well seismic is happening. Seismic may make the alumni a bit more forgiving as far as conferencing up. And as I've expressed in other posts, on a gut level the ACC seems like a better fit for ND than the gloomy Big 10.

    SU - Pitt - BC - UConn - ND is a major Northeast cockblock. All the Big 10 would have left in the market is Penn State, and that's only for football. Them adding Rutgers at that point does little for them so they look west to a Missouri and maybe a Kansas.
     
  14. OrangeXtreme

    OrangeXtreme Moderator Staff Member

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    If the SEC doesn't stop at 14, wouldn't TCU be on deck for the next round? Maybe TCU and Mizzou?
     
  15. Cuse2010

    Cuse2010 Scout Team

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    I honestly would associate ND more with the BIG than the ACC. I always remember them playing BIG schools MI, MIState, Purdue, PSU etc. They are located in the MW, I honestly think IF they are forced to choose they would choose the BIG. Just my opinion, but than again I thought the BE was going to stick it out when Big 12 folds and add a few, get new contract to be strong. Shows what I know
     
  16. supp

    supp Starter

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    I think TCU is doomed to the BigXII/Big East leftovers conference. A small private school in TX was only a fit in the Big East. SEC will aim higher and there's nowhere for them to turn but the ACC. The big question is whether they can get their targets (VT? GT? FSU? CU?). ND in the ACC would likely ensure that the conference stays raid-free.
     
  17. Jake

    Jake Mod Staff Member

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    Fish out of water may have been an exaggeration...but Swofford has definitely made the ACC a more attractive option for ND...and that was the goal and motivation of adding Pitt and Syracuse first.
     
  18. OrlandoCuse

    OrlandoCuse All Conference

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    I was looking at ND's schedule this year and found it rather interesting that they are playing 3 games vs ACC teams (in a row) later this year, @ Wake, vs Maryland and Boston College.

    Boston College could have some pull to bring ND to the ACC (along with Pitt and SU).

    There's just a lot of logistics that need to work out with ND. First, they will want to maintain their NBC home game contract. That means the ACC will have to give up rights to at least 4 premier games each year. Second, ND has less flexibility in their scheduling. If they have 3 or 4 open slots outside of ACC play, you know they will always use 2 to schedule USC and Michigan. Will they use the other two for Mich St or Purdue?
     
  19. Blaster

    Blaster 2nd String

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    I still think Uconn and Penn st are the best options
     
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  20. Dick_in_MI

    Dick_in_MI 2nd String

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    I don't think they'd remotely be a fish out of water. They routinely play B10 teams and their travel would be easier than in the ACC. Enrollment-wise, they're more like an ACC school but the similarity ends there. Everything else about them is oversized. They have B10-size $$$, B10 sized following, B10 sized traditions, B10 sized stadium and on and on and on. They are more like a B10 school than a number of current B10 members, to be honest.
     
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