If you could choose, would you prefer 30 wins and sweet 16 or 14 losses + Final 4? | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

If you could choose, would you prefer 30 wins and sweet 16 or 14 losses + Final 4?

This, this, this, and this.

Final Four every day and twice on Sundays. Shouldn't even be a discussion, IMO. Post-season is pretty much all that counts.


Then all that counts is a single elimination tournament. What you did the four months before that doesn't count.

I'll never understand why people want to dismiss the Louie and Bouie Show, the 1988-91 teams, the 2000 team that started 19-0, the 2010 and 2012 team, (which had a 30-1 regular season) by saying that they don't matter. Those were fun season, even if they frustrating endings. And they represent real accomplishment. Of course we want to go to the Final Four but if you limit your enjoyment to the seasons where we did that, you are denying yourself a lot of pleasure.
 
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Then all that counts is a single elimination tournament. What you did the four months before that doesn't count.

I'll never understand why people want to dismiss the Louie and Bouie Show, the 1988-91 teams, the 2000 team that started 19-0, the 2010 and 2012 team, (which had a 30-1 regular season) by saying that they don't matter. Those were fun season, even if they frustrating endings. And they represent real accomplishment. of course we want to go to the Final Four but if you limit your enjoyment to the seasons where we did that, you are denying yourself a lot of pleasure.
Not true. You need to play well enough in the regular season just to make the single elimination tournament. You don't need 30 wins to do that. IMO, the FF is the end all, be all.

And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF.
 
well we spent 1 week in the AP top 25 last year. after a 6-0 start we were ranked 14th week 4. next week we fell out of the polls and by week 7 were not even receiving any votes period. to stay in the polls you have to take care of business. we didn't.
 
And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF.

He may be be referring to JB's assertion that the number of wins during the season is irrelevant as long as you make the NCAAs. A different question than posed by the OP, but still relevant to the discussion, isn't it?
 
He may be be referring to JB's assertion that the number of wins during the season is irrelevant as long as you make the NCAAs. A different question than posed by the OP, but still relevant to the discussion, isn't it?
I'll never understand why people want to dismiss the Louie and Bouie Show, the 1988-91 teams, the 2000 team that started 19-0, the 2010 and 2012 team, (which had a 30-1 regular season) by saying that they don't matter.
Not true. You need to play well enough in the regular season just to make the single elimination tournament. You don't need 30 wins to do that. IMO, the FF is the end all, be all.

And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF.
As long as you play well enough to make the tournament, 20 vs. 30 doesn't matter if you make the FF. That was my point (and JB's point, IMO). And I believe the point of the OP's question.
 
Not true. You need to play well enough in the regular season just to make the single elimination tournament. You don't need 30 wins to do that. IMO, the FF is the end all, be all.

And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF.


"Post-season is pretty much all that counts."
 
"Post-season is pretty much all that counts."
There is no post-season if you don't play well enough in the regular season. But yes, what you do in the post season has a definite bearing on how successful the team is considered to be. Would you be happy going 28-0 in the regular season, then losing your first conference tourney game and your first NCAA game? I wouldn't. Would I be happy to be undefeated in the regular season? Absolutely. Would I consider the season successful based on the above? No, I wouldn't.

Not sure what it is about the opposing argument you don't get. Just because it's not your opinion doesn't mean it has no validity.
 
5 months of happiness totally wiped out by one game ? i'd rather be ranked and feared all season. sold out dome.
 
There is no post-season if you don't play well enough in the regular season. But yes, what you do in the post season has a definite bearing on how successful the team is considered to be. Would you be happy going 28-0 in the regular season, then losing your first conference tourney game and your first NCAA game? I wouldn't. Would I be happy to be undefeated in the regular season? Absolutely. Would I consider the season successful based on the above? No, I wouldn't.

Not sure what it is about the opposing argument you don't get. Just because it's not your opinion doesn't mean it has no validity.


I'm pointing out that you are the one dismissing 30 win seasons.
 
I'm pointing out that you are the one dismissing 30 win seasons.
Then I guess maybe your reading comprehension isn't as good as it used to be.

"As long as you play well enough to make the tournament, 20 vs. 30 doesn't matter if you make the FF." Where is that 'dismissing' 30 win seasons?

"Would I be happy to be undefeated in the regular season? Absolutely." Where is that 'dismissing' 30 win seasons?

"And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF."

I didn't think I had to say "And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter, including me. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF."

So, for the record, no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter, including me. Once more, the OP asked, "If you could choose, would you prefer 30 wins and sweet 16 loss or 14 losses + Final 4?"

I chose. It's not your choice, and that's fine. I was ecstatic when we won all those games, and I wish we do it again very soon. But if the choice comes down to 30 wins or a Final Four, I'm choosing Final Four. Every time. Every single time.

If you think that is dismissing 30 win seasons, I don't know what to tell you. :noidea:
 
Surprised at the responses. I'd take FF any day. They hang banners for FF, only mid-majors hang banners for Sweet 16s, and nobody hangs them for 30 win seasons.

That being said, what do you think matters more for recruiting? If the team is in the middle of a dominant year, it's an easier sell than a team in the middle of a tough year. It's perhaps tougher to capitalize on the few weeks in March/April where we look good than it is to capitalize on a few months during the season where we look dominant. That being said, once the season is over, I feel that bringing a recruit on campus and showing them FF banners is a lot more impressive than saying "Hey remember how many games we won last year (before exiting the tourney early)"
 
Surprised at the responses. I'd take FF any day. They hang banners for FF, only mid-majors hang banners for Sweet 16s, and nobody hangs them for 30 win seasons.

That being said, what do you think matters more for recruiting? If the team is in the middle of a dominant year, it's an easier sell than a team in the middle of a tough year. It's perhaps tougher to capitalize on the few weeks in March/April where we look good than it is to capitalize on a few months during the season where we look dominant. That being said, once the season is over, I feel that bringing a recruit on campus and showing them FF banners is a lot more impressive than saying "Hey remember how many games we won last year (before exiting the tourney early)"

The recruiting issue is a tough call that could probably be argued either way.

But as to general perception, college basketball is followed during the season by college basketball fans...which despite the enthusiasm on boards like this is a limited audience.

The NCAA tournament brings in all sports fans, and even some people who aren't sports fans. So one can say that it's only a couple weeks versus several months, but the public-perception impact is exponentially greater when compared to regular-season results.
 
Ok, in that case I am sticking with my original answer of the Final Four over The Passion Of The Onuaku(although Gillon is proclaiming he's The Christ this season, so I suppose he will be the one getting The Passion(tm) instead of a center like Onuaku/Fab this time). As I mentioned earlier(as did others), as Final Four is a lesser title...like when Macho Man Randy Savage was the WWF Intercontinental Champion.

As for a title, i didn't mean it as a guarantee, of course. I just saw at least one answer that seemed to think the Final Four included a shot at the title. Not sure it's safe to assume it was the only one.
Cap Cap
Cliffs of behavior

That's my favorite.
 
The NFL uses a single elimination tournament and it's the most popular American sport. If an 9-7 team beats a 15-1 team in the playoffs they earned it, the 15-1 team have only themselves to blame and not the system.

And it doesn't mean the regular season for the 9-7 team was meaningless, the team used the season to make the playoffs - mission accomplished.

As far as the fans are concerned, 9-7 brings more disappointments than 15-1 but that doesn't mean they can't enjoy the season. Maybe the team wins all 8 homes games, that's a pretty darn good fan experience.

The "disappointing" 14-loss team last year beat Duke @ their place, ND, Texas A&M, and UConn during the regular season - that's besides winning 4 games in the NCAAT and reaching the Final Four. Some of you should focus on the season's wins more than the losses.

again: B every time
 
03-04 and 04-05 struggled to maximize their potential because of Edelins issues. He was supposed to be Gerry's backcourt partner.
It's unfortunate because from what I understand the problems were no one's fault. I hope he's doing well.
 
FF without question. It's the Super Bowl weekend of college basketball and the measuring stick of success of college programs.

On another note, there are very few road trips I'd dump 2-3k on with a few days notice but Cuse in the FF is on the top of the list. Strong suggestion, if you haven't gone then make the promise to yourself next time they get there you'll go no matter the multiple reasons you can't. It's a decision you won't regret.
Yup. Couldn't make last year but Atlanta was fun!
 
As long as you play well enough to make the tournament, 20 vs. 30 doesn't matter if you make the FF. That was my point (and JB's point, IMO). And I believe the point of the OP's question.
for the love of god just stop it. you are apparently emboldened by your terrible post from yesterday about sitting courtside that many gave the obligatory likes. a fan takes the 30 win team every time over the bad team that gets a lucky final four. first of all it is a premise from the OP to begin with. you take the better team every time. you should probably stick to giving us inane observations from "courtside".
 
For the purposes of this hypothetical, are we looking only at one season in a vacuum, or the multi-year big picture?

If the year was 2006, George Mason went to the Final Four and Duke got bounced in the Sweet 16. Are people here saying they would rather be George Mason than Duke? That's insane. Duke was a 1 seed that year and won 30 plus games, and thus was more likely to have sustained success over the next 10 years than magical 11 seed George Mason, which is exactly what happened.
It put George Mason on the map though, and does for all the underdogs who reach the Final Four or even Sweet 16 and sometimes just the round of 32 like our last season match up.

Helps get better recruits and helps the coach maybe get a better job.
 
Surprised at the responses. I'd take FF any day. They hang banners for FF, only mid-majors hang banners for Sweet 16s, and nobody hangs them for 30 win seasons.

That being said, what do you think matters more for recruiting? If the team is in the middle of a dominant year, it's an easier sell than a team in the middle of a tough year. It's perhaps tougher to capitalize on the few weeks in March/April where we look good than it is to capitalize on a few months during the season where we look dominant. That being said, once the season is over, I feel that bringing a recruit on campus and showing them FF banners is a lot more impressive than saying "Hey remember how many games we won last year (before exiting the tourney early)"
just stop it with recruiting. our recruiting is borderline. did the final for last year get us quade?
 
well we spent 1 week in the AP top 25 last year. after a 6-0 start we were ranked 14th week 4. next week we fell out of the polls and by week 7 were not even receiving any votes period. to stay in the polls you have to take care of business. we didn't.
And yet we were in the Final Four......
 
for the love of god just stop it. you are apparently emboldened by your terrible post from yesterday about sitting courtside that many gave the obligatory likes. a fan takes the 30 win team every time over the bad team that gets a lucky final four. first of all it is a . . . . premise from the OP to begin with. you take the better team every time. you should probably stick to giving us inane observations from "courtside".
Rude much?
 
We did miss out on Kenny Anderson and turned out ok.

And Warrick, Rautins and Triche were 3 star players.

Every situation isn't the same. All 3 stars aren't going to pan out and every recruiting miss doesn't mean you'll end up better.
 
Then all that counts is a single elimination tournament. What you did the four months before that doesn't count.

I'll never understand why people want to dismiss the Louie and Bouie Show, the 1988-91 teams, the 2000 team that started 19-0, the 2010 and 2012 team, (which had a 30-1 regular season) by saying that they don't matter. Those were fun season, even if they frustrating endings. And they represent real accomplishment. Of course we want to go to the Final Four but if you limit your enjoyment to the seasons where we did that, you are denying yourself a lot of pleasure.

Someone earlier said both opinions are valid, which I agree with. If you as a fan value having a great regular season more, great. If you as a fan value deep runs in the tournament and do not value the regular season more, great. I personally don't agree with how many rounds deep you go in a single elimination tournament being the end-all be-all with 20 vs 30 wins not mattering as long as you make it to the dance. Championships matter a lot more to me than which round you got eliminated in. There is a a lot of parity in college basketball these days, and judging my complete enjoyment of a season on the 1-6 games at the end I think I'd go crazy.
 
just stop it with recruiting. our recruiting is borderline. did the final for last year get us quade?
Looked up Quade's history. We were courting him, then Kentucky came in and metaphorically seduced him.

Top recruit Quade Green spurns Syracuse basketball as he picks Kentucky

Now he's the one metaphorically seducing his fellow players, per this article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kentuc...st-Kentucky-assist-50361812/Amp?client=safari

Note that the writer used the phrase that Quade would get a lot of dimes to Diallo. Not a direct quote but not your usual sports journalist's lingo either.

And as per Urban Dictionary, a dime DOES mean a great pass to a teammate. But in the third definition, it doesn't mention basketball, but a quantity of drugs, a hot woman, a term for a rat and --- $10,000.

Urban Dictionary: dime

And what is Kentucky rumored to do with recruits?

As the late Art Linkletter's catchphrase went: "Kids say the darndest things."
 

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