If you could choose, would you prefer 30 wins and sweet 16 or 14 losses + Final 4?

Discussion in 'Syracuse Basketball Board' started by orangepassion, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. hungrychuck

    hungrychuck 2nd String

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    Lute Olson had five in 30 years. Consider him a great coach?

    UConn has 4 national titles in 18 years.

    Tough comparison, but a HOF coach deserves to be held to a high standard.
     
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  2. SWC75

    SWC75 Bored Historian

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    Then all that counts is a single elimination tournament. What you did the four months before that doesn't count.

    I'll never understand why people want to dismiss the Louie and Bouie Show, the 1988-91 teams, the 2000 team that started 19-0, the 2010 and 2012 team, (which had a 30-1 regular season) by saying that they don't matter. Those were fun season, even if they frustrating endings. And they represent real accomplishment. Of course we want to go to the Final Four but if you limit your enjoyment to the seasons where we did that, you are denying yourself a lot of pleasure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  3. orange79

    orange79 Internet Sleuth Staff Member

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    Not true. You need to play well enough in the regular season just to make the single elimination tournament. You don't need 30 wins to do that. IMO, the FF is the end all, be all.

    And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF.
     
  4. tbonezone

    tbonezone All American

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    well we spent 1 week in the AP top 25 last year. after a 6-0 start we were ranked 14th week 4. next week we fell out of the polls and by week 7 were not even receiving any votes period. to stay in the polls you have to take care of business. we didn't.
     
  5. Zelda Zonk

    Zelda Zonk Starter

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    He may be be referring to JB's assertion that the number of wins during the season is irrelevant as long as you make the NCAAs. A different question than posed by the OP, but still relevant to the discussion, isn't it?
     
  6. orange79

    orange79 Internet Sleuth Staff Member

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    As long as you play well enough to make the tournament, 20 vs. 30 doesn't matter if you make the FF. That was my point (and JB's point, IMO). And I believe the point of the OP's question.
     
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  7. SWC75

    SWC75 Bored Historian

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    "Post-season is pretty much all that counts."
     
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  8. orange79

    orange79 Internet Sleuth Staff Member

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    There is no post-season if you don't play well enough in the regular season. But yes, what you do in the post season has a definite bearing on how successful the team is considered to be. Would you be happy going 28-0 in the regular season, then losing your first conference tourney game and your first NCAA game? I wouldn't. Would I be happy to be undefeated in the regular season? Absolutely. Would I consider the season successful based on the above? No, I wouldn't.

    Not sure what it is about the opposing argument you don't get. Just because it's not your opinion doesn't mean it has no validity.
     
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  9. tbonezone

    tbonezone All American

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    5 months of happiness totally wiped out by one game ? i'd rather be ranked and feared all season. sold out dome.
     
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  10. SWC75

    SWC75 Bored Historian

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    I'm pointing out that you are the one dismissing 30 win seasons.
     
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  11. orange79

    orange79 Internet Sleuth Staff Member

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    Then I guess maybe your reading comprehension isn't as good as it used to be.

    "As long as you play well enough to make the tournament, 20 vs. 30 doesn't matter if you make the FF." Where is that 'dismissing' 30 win seasons?

    "Would I be happy to be undefeated in the regular season? Absolutely." Where is that 'dismissing' 30 win seasons?

    "And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF."

    I didn't think I had to say "And no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter, including me. The question was would you rather have 30 wins and a Sweet 16 loss, of a mediocre season and a FF."

    So, for the record, no one is dismissing anything or saying 30 win seasons don't matter, including me. Once more, the OP asked, "If you could choose, would you prefer 30 wins and sweet 16 loss or 14 losses + Final 4?"

    I chose. It's not your choice, and that's fine. I was ecstatic when we won all those games, and I wish we do it again very soon. But if the choice comes down to 30 wins or a Final Four, I'm choosing Final Four. Every time. Every single time.

    If you think that is dismissing 30 win seasons, I don't know what to tell you. :noidea:
     
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  12. ROCorange

    ROCorange Walk On

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    Surprised at the responses. I'd take FF any day. They hang banners for FF, only mid-majors hang banners for Sweet 16s, and nobody hangs them for 30 win seasons.

    That being said, what do you think matters more for recruiting? If the team is in the middle of a dominant year, it's an easier sell than a team in the middle of a tough year. It's perhaps tougher to capitalize on the few weeks in March/April where we look good than it is to capitalize on a few months during the season where we look dominant. That being said, once the season is over, I feel that bringing a recruit on campus and showing them FF banners is a lot more impressive than saying "Hey remember how many games we won last year (before exiting the tourney early)"
     
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  13. hungrychuck

    hungrychuck 2nd String

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    The recruiting issue is a tough call that could probably be argued either way.

    But as to general perception, college basketball is followed during the season by college basketball fans...which despite the enthusiasm on boards like this is a limited audience.

    The NCAA tournament brings in all sports fans, and even some people who aren't sports fans. So one can say that it's only a couple weeks versus several months, but the public-perception impact is exponentially greater when compared to regular-season results.
     
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  14. cuseattle

    cuseattle All Conference

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    Cap Cap
    Cliffs of behavior

    That's my favorite.
     
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  15. obliterata

    obliterata All Conference

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    The NFL uses a single elimination tournament and it's the most popular American sport. If an 9-7 team beats a 15-1 team in the playoffs they earned it, the 15-1 team have only themselves to blame and not the system.

    And it doesn't mean the regular season for the 9-7 team was meaningless, the team used the season to make the playoffs - mission accomplished.

    As far as the fans are concerned, 9-7 brings more disappointments than 15-1 but that doesn't mean they can't enjoy the season. Maybe the team wins all 8 homes games, that's a pretty darn good fan experience.

    The "disappointing" 14-loss team last year beat Duke @ their place, ND, Texas A&M, and UConn during the regular season - that's besides winning 4 games in the NCAAT and reaching the Final Four. Some of you should focus on the season's wins more than the losses.

    again: B every time
     
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  16. NYCSUGrad

    NYCSUGrad Starter

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    It's unfortunate because from what I understand the problems were no one's fault. I hope he's doing well.
     
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  17. NYCSUGrad

    NYCSUGrad Starter

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    Yup. Couldn't make last year but Atlanta was fun!
     
  18. orangehomer

    orangehomer All Conference

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    for the love of god just stop it. you are apparently emboldened by your terrible post from yesterday about sitting courtside that many gave the obligatory likes. a fan takes the 30 win team every time over the bad team that gets a lucky final four. first of all it is a . . . . premise from the OP to begin with. you take the better team every time. you should probably stick to giving us inane observations from "courtside".
     
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  19. NYCSUGrad

    NYCSUGrad Starter

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    It put George Mason on the map though, and does for all the underdogs who reach the Final Four or even Sweet 16 and sometimes just the round of 32 like our last season match up.

    Helps get better recruits and helps the coach maybe get a better job.
     
  20. orangehomer

    orangehomer All Conference

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    just stop it with recruiting. our recruiting is borderline. did the final for last year get us quade?
     
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