JB:"cooney was laying on the ground...

[catin]

I'm wondering if you watched very closely.

Yes, I did and I still don't feel that developing more assertiveness will result necessarily in more fouls being called. Looking beyond this game. Just saying.

 

[jordoo]

Yes, I did and I still don't feel that developing more assertiveness will result necessarily in more fouls being called. Looking beyond this game. Just saying.

What about when Mike and Trevor both tried to do that after being harrsssed. They turned it back and were tagged with offensive fouls right away. IMO the refs sent the message all game that t SU could not play aggressive and physical.

 

[catin]

What about when Mike and Trevor both tried to do that after being harrsssed. They turned it back and were tagged with offensive fouls right away. IMO the refs sent the message all game that t SU could not play aggressive and physical.

I actually agree with you on those two instances. However, I think it is wrong to characterize the entire game as a conspiracy and, therefore, no reason to exercise more assertiveness. I simply disagree with that premise, and I know I'm in the minority on that. Looking at the big picture and not one singular game or particular set of fouls, I think more assertiveness will result in more W's.

I think it is a good match for the athleticism, which is all I was saying from the beginning.

 

[Noexcuse]

Is there a replay of this? I heard some people say he flopped and some people say he was pushed.

There was no way they were going to let the ball get inbounded to Cooney. He was being held, broke away and his momentum carried him down to the floor. For good measure, Archi pushed him down again as he tried to get up. Meanwhile, Rak was being "closely" guarded as well and was "bumped" just as the inbounds pass reached him, causing him to fumble the ball somewhat, but the hack he received did the job as far as the "steal" of the inbounds went. Next up was the body clear out by Pinkston to give himself enough space to make the game tying layup. So there are, idk, 3 or 4 possible fouls on that play. I was surprised the ref didn't call the flop on Cooney though.

 

[CusefanATL]

I actually agree with you on those two instances. However, I think it is wrong to characterize the entire game as a conspiracy and, therefore, no reason to exercise more assertiveness. I simply disagree with that premise, and I know I'm in the minority on that. Looking at the big picture and not one singular game or particular set of fouls, I think more assertiveness will result in more W's.

I think it is a good match for the athleticism, which is all I was saying from the beginning.

I honestly think the refs were in the neighborhood of a 15-20 point difference throughout the entirety of the game.

I have never seen anything like that.

Usually controversial games are depending on 1 call in a crucial moment. THis was the entire game. Nova may have been on the wrong side of a call twice. I think syracuse was on the wrong side dozenS of times.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Joseph was being held on that inbounds play as well.

Nova went from a lazy defense in the first to hand checking the heck out of SU in the second half. And Nova did go hard after loose balls, usually by jumping on or tackling an SU player - Gus Johnson called it "hustling".

 

[rrlbees]

I was referring to the OP's statement about physical assertiveness, that's all. I'm just saying play the game with the same tenor as it was being played upon SU. All this whining after the game does zero. Just play it the way it was dished out is what I believe the OP was conveying and I agree. You neutralize the whistles that way. Dished upon, dish it back.

We played hard and with the same "tenor". Those were called fouls on us. That's the point.

 

[Millhouse]

after watching the replay, cooney flopped

that was the worst 4 seconds by an SU player i've ever seen not involving timeouts they didn't have

 

[BonaCuse]

Yes, a terrible four seconds of basketball, but if you look at the replay Rak was held/jersey pulled.

The replay of that play is comical. We have an inbounder who was in no hurry to get the ball inbounds, a 2 man laying on the ground, a sf who ran out of bounds and Rak being held and his jersey pulled.

 

[RF2044]

I honestly think the refs were in the neighborhood of a 15-20 point difference throughout the entirety of the game.

I have never seen anything like that.

Usually controversial games are depending on 1 call in a crucial moment. THis was the entire game. Nova may have been on the wrong side of a call twice. I think syracuse was on the wrong side dozenS of times.

Fantastic post -- agree 100%.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

He may have flopped... but archidiagno was draped all over him. It was an easy call.

Archianga also hooked his off arm on SU player on 2 drives toward the end of regulation

 

[Cheriehoop]

Cooney got hit hard a few times on moves to the basket. One time he initiated contact exactly like Villanova did. It wasn't called. Roc had 18 so obviously he went to the basket strong all game. Our guys must be to strong, therefore it looks like they don't get fouled when they go to the basket.

Funny you mention that. Could someone confirm if it looks like Nova's #3 who rode McC, actually fouled Cooney with a push to his back on his rebound shot attempt right before the rodeo show? I was thinking that it all could have been avoided if the first foul was called. Crazy game. The crucial turning point to me was Hilliards' 8 point burst that brought the game from a 14 point lead to 6 points in the beginning of the 2nd half.

 

[AccuRater]

after watching the replay, cooney flopped

that was the worst 4 seconds by an SU player i've ever seen not involving timeouts they didn't have

Paul Harris?

 

[Eagles20]

Cooney got hit hard a few times on moves to the basket. One time he initiated contact exactly like Villanova did. It wasn't called. Roc had 18 so obviously he went to the basket strong all game. Our guys must be to strong, therefore it looks like they don't get fouled when they go to the basket.

I feel like ESP on the initiated contact from nova that joseph stuck his hand in when the guy was going up for the shot...that's an easy call. On the cooney one I think archi used mostly his body and didn't stick his hand in. You can get away with contact if you play it smart. Reaching in will get you called all the time.

 

[Eagles20]

Funny you mention that. Could someone confirm if it looks like Nova's #3 who rode McC, actually fouled Cooney with a push to his back on his rebound shot attempt right before the rodeo show? I was thinking that it all could have been avoided if the first foul was called. Crazy game. The crucial turning point to me was Hilliards' 8 point burst that brought the game from a 14 point lead to 6 points in the beginning of the 2nd half.

I beleive that actually could have been a travel on cooney...don't beleive you can be the first person to catch your own airball. Unless the refs saw it as possible the ball slipping out of his hands and not a shot attempt. I thought watching it live it was a walk. Maybe someone who is 100% sure on the rules can confirm for me.

 

[storange]

I have NEVER dropped an F Bomb in my house while watching an SU game, especially with my kids around. Today I dropped an F Bomb and was scolded by the better half. I simply could not contain the anger any longer. This game will live in infamy. INFAMY!

Ive dropped about 3 or 4 thousand. Watching SU or the Giants is the only time I swear at home.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I beleive that actually could have been a travel on cooney...don't beleive you can be the first person to catch your own airball. Unless the refs saw it as possible the ball slipping out of his hands and not a shot attempt. I thought watching it live it was a walk. Maybe someone who is 100% sure on the rules can confirm for me.

I wondered about a travel too - catching his own rebound - surprisingly it didn't look like it hit anything. That's quite a trick when so close if not hit or slipping out- very weird play.

 

[Eagles20]

On the topic of refs:

It appears they will allow psyical teams to play like this as long as they are keeping the ball handler in front of them and not using both hands to steer. They also allow lower body use to bump as long as a hand isn't in the offensive player. Once the offensive player gains an advantage and is bumped or a hand is out on them is when the call in made. Similar to the play where chris picked up his 4th. Once the villanova guy got the step and Chris bumped him it was an automatic whistle.

What I don't understand is how the refs don't seem to be improving. At the university I work we set up permanent replay cameras. We have someone who monitors and marks each possession once the ball is across half court. After the game the game film is emailed to our league office and it goes to the head official of the league. He also forwards the email to the 3 refs who worked the game. These refs review every game they do and also get notes from the guy in charge of them. I don't see how they aren't improving and continue to make the same mistakes. Maybe I'm just not familiar with how the college game is supposed to be officiated anymore.

 

[shandeezy7]

I beleive that actually could have been a travel on cooney...don't beleive you can be the first person to catch your own airball. Unless the refs saw it as possible the ball slipping out of his hands and not a shot attempt. I thought watching it live it was a walk. Maybe someone who is 100% sure on the rules can confirm for me.

As long as it is a legitimate shot attempt, then I believe the person who shot it can grab the rebound even if it is an airball. That's the rule for college at least. Think it's different in the NBA.

 

[Cusefan0307]

On the topic of refs:

It appears they will allow psyical teams to play like this as long as they are keeping the ball handler in front of them and not using both hands to steer. They also allow lower body use to bump as long as a hand isn't in the offensive player. Once the offensive player gains an advantage and is bumped or a hand is out on them is when the call in made. Similar to the play where chris picked up his 4th. Once the villanova guy got the step and Chris bumped him it was an automatic whistle.

What I don't understand is how the refs don't seem to be improving. At the university I work we set up permanent replay cameras. We have someone who monitors and marks each possession once the ball is across half court. After the game the game film is emailed to our league office and it goes to the head official of the league. He also forwards the email to the 3 refs who worked the game. These refs review every game they do and also get notes from the guy in charge of them. I don't see how they aren't improving and continue to make the same mistakes. Maybe I'm just not familiar with how the college game is supposed to be officiated anymore.

I think there was an initial focus to cut down on contact at the beginning of last year. Unfortunately, whoever is officiating the officials apparently forgot the focus the put in at the beginning of last year. I actually have less problem with the way on the ball defense is officiated, than i do with the way off the ball defense is officiated.

The away from the ball contact is killing the fluidity of the game. For instance Nova just draped Cooney on Saturday with Archidiacono, Ennis, and Hilliard, and was able to get away with it. On Cooney's offensive foul call, Archidicrapano grabbed him the whole possession and it was the retaliation contact from cooney that was called. Just BS officiating right there. This is the reason the quality of the game stinks. You can't pass to someone who's being interfered with. Hence the rugged games, with ugly turnovers, and terrible passing. By the way they Call this in the NFL. In the NFL, it's called PASS INTERFERENCE!!!!!!!!

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

And I'm saying it would have simply gotten us into deeper foul trouble earlier. I'm wondering if you watched very closely.

It sounds like the reason you like us sitting back in the zone is because we will get called for more fouls if we don't.

 

[jordoo]

It sounds like the reason you like us sitting back in the zone is because we will get called for more fouls if we don't.

Not at all. My comments are all specific to this game perhaps a reread of them would make it more clear as I even offered evidence. I don't have a philosophical issue with the zone but like any system or defense its foolish not to be able to see that along with its strengths it has its limitations. The same can be said for various ways of playing m2m defense. I don't care what kind of defense we played Saturday we were not going to be allowed to do it aggressively like Nova was in the 2nd half from what I saw. There was example after example in that game of the refs sending that exact message to our guys.

 

[jordoo]

I think there was an initial focus to cut down on contact at the beginning of last year. Unfortunately, whoever is officiating the officials apparently forgot the focus the put in at the beginning of last year. I actually have less problem with the way on the ball defense is officiated, than i do with the way off the ball defense is officiated.

The away from the ball contact is killing the fluidity of the game. For instance Nova just draped Cooney on Saturday with Archidiacono, Ennis, and Hilliard, and was able to get away with it. On Cooney's offensive foul call, Archidicrapano grabbed him the whole possession and it was the retaliation contact from cooney that was called. Just BS officiating right there. This is the reason the quality of the game stinks. You can't pass to someone who's being interfered with. Hence the rugged games, with ugly turnovers, and terrible passing. By the way they Call this in the NFL. In the NFL, it's called PASS INTERFERENCE!!!

Its telling that the NFL (away from the line of scrimmage) is called far more tightly than college bball is when it comes to contact and holding. Think about that for a little while . . . . . . .