Jeter harmed the Yankees this season.

[OrangeCrush22]

I'm a Yankees fan and I've always loved Jeter, but this season I soured on him. He's a first ballot hall of famer and a Yankee legend but his faults showed this season.

His swing died before the season started. Girardi, being a player manager, wasn't going to move him down in the order. Jeter had to go and tell him to, and he didn't. Jeter should have been batting in the bottom third of the order. This would have allowed Ellsbury to bat second instead of being shoehorned into the third spot disrupting the order.

Jeter's career average fell .05 points this season. He's played in 142 games this season, only his third lowest career wise. This was the number 2 hitter... 46 runs, 145 hits, 18 doubles, 1 triple, 4 home runs, 46 RBIs, 10 stolen bases, 35 walks, 85 strikeouts, .253 avg, .301 obp, .309 slg, .611 ops, 177 total bases. All of those are the worst in his career except for the strikeouts which is tied for his second best season (assuming he doesn't SO in the last few games). Those numbers omit '95 and '13 where he played in under 17 games each season.

I'm not trashing his excellent career only this season. He still has the fifth best WAR in Yankee history (71) -- behind Ruth (142), Gehrig (112), Mantle (109), and DiMaggio (78). He won Rookie of the Year, finished top 3 in MVP voting three times, 14 time all-star (this season shouldn't count, though), 5 Gold Gloves, and 5 Silver Sluggers.

Next season the Yankees will be rid of all the greats of the late 90s and early 00s and can finally move on towards a new dynasty.

 

[Crusty]

I'm a Yankees fan and I've always loved Jeter, but this season I soured on him. He's a first ballot hall of famer and a Yankee legend but his faults showed this season.

His swing died before the season started. Girardi, being a player manager, wasn't going to move him down in the order. Jeter had to go and tell him to, and he didn't. Jeter should have been batting in the bottom third of the order. This would have allowed Ellsbury to bat second instead of being shoehorned into the third spot disrupting the order.

Jeter's career average fell .05 points this season. He's played in 142 games this season, only his third lowest career wise. This was the number 2 hitter... 46 runs, 145 hits, 18 doubles, 1 triple, 4 home runs, 46 RBIs, 10 stolen bases, 35 walks, 85 strikeouts, .253 avg, .301 obp, .309 slg, .611 ops, 177 total bases. All of those are the worst in his career except for the strikeouts which is tied for his second best season (assuming he doesn't SO in the last few games). Those numbers omit '95 and '13 where he played in under 17 games each season.

I'm not trashing his excellent career only this season. He still has the fifth best WAR in Yankee history (71) -- behind Ruth (142), Gehrig (112), Mantle (109), and DiMaggio (78). He won Rookie of the Year, finished top 3 in MVP voting three times, 14 time all-star (this season shouldn't count, though), 5 Gold Gloves, and 5 Silver Sluggers.

Next season the Yankees will be rid of all the greats of the late 90s and early 00s and can finally move on towards a new dynasty.

I really didn't care. The Yankees stunk and the only thing of interest was Jeter,

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I'm sure that McCann hitting .235, Beltran hitting .233, and Tex hitting .219 had nothing to do with it.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

I'm sure that McCann hitting .235, Beltran hitting .233, and Tex hitting .219 had nothing to do with it.

They each certainly could have done better. But all did better than Jeter this season when looking at their entire stat lines.

Oddly enough McCann's stats aren't even his career worst in some areas. I didn't know this until doing this research.

McCann compared to Jeter has lower OBP, higher SLG and OPS. He has less walks, more runs, RBIs, and homers.

Teixeira compared to Jeter has a higher OBP, SLG, and OPS. He has more walks, runs, RBIs, and homers.

Beltran compared to Jeter has the same OBP, higher SLG and OPS. He has more walks, RBIs, and homers. And the same amount of walks. While playing in 33 less games.

Career wise Jeter blows these guys out of the water in stats like runs, hits, BA, OBP, and total bases. To be fair three of those stats are cumulative, but there's no way those stats will be approached by these three guys.

 

[Toga]

umm yeah

 

[mountaincuse]

Lost me after your first sentence.

 

[Toga]

 

[OrangeCrush22]

umm yeah

That was incredible and I'm glad I witnessed it. A lot of credit to Girardi for having Gardner sacrifice.

But this takes absolutely nothing away from my prior statements. Nor does it erase this season's statistics and final outcome.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Lost me after your first sentence.

I just realized he's not as infallible as I thought he was. He's selfish just like the rest of us. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but in the grand scheme of things the team's playoff hopes were affected.

 

[mountaincuse]

That was incredible and I'm glad I witnessed it. A lot of credit to Girardi for having Gardner sacrifice.

But this takes absolutely nothing away from my prior statements. Nor does it erase this season's statistics and final outcome.

So, you think that Derek was the reason for the Yankees offensive issues this season? All because he hit two?

 

[mountaincuse]

I just realized he's not as infallible as I thought he was. He's selfish just like the rest of us. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but in the grand scheme of things the team's playoff hopes were affected.

They were not. Team was flawed by injuries and old players who they took on and didn't preform.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

So, you think that Derek was the reason for the Yankees offensive issues this season? All because he hit two?

No. I think Jeter was part of the problem. Him specifically being moved to the back of the lineup is the move that would have had the biggest impact, IMO. Other players didn't perform well, but Jeter performed worse. Guys like Headley, Prado, Gardner, Ellsbury, Ichiro, and Teixeira all had considerably higher OBP than Jeter this season. Even if that gives the Yankees 5 more wins they're potentially in the wild card spot.

And before anybody says this team wouldn't win a World Series anyway; the 2006 Cardinals won the World Series. Anybody can win, but it starts with getting in.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I agree that he should not have been batting second.

That said he sold a lot of tickets.

 

[pfister1]

I'm sure that McCann hitting .235, Beltran hitting .233, and Tex hitting .219 had nothing to do with it.

To say nothing of Nova (4 starts), Sabathia (8 starts), Pineda (12 starts), Tanaka (19 starts) and might as well throw in Gardner .255.

Maybe they finished as well as they did due to the consistency Jeter provided in the 2 slot.

 

[mountaincuse]

No. I think Jeter was part of the problem. Him specifically being moved to the back of the lineup is the move that would have had the biggest impact, IMO. Other players didn't perform well, but Jeter performed worse. Guys like Headley, Prado, Gardner, Ellsbury, Ichiro, and Teixeira all had considerably higher OBP than Jeter this season. Even if that gives the Yankees 5 more wins they're potentially in the wild card spot.

And before anybody says this team wouldn't win a World Series anyway; the 2006 Cardinals won the World Series. Anybody can win, but it starts with getting in.

I think you are overthinking it - doesn't matter where anyone is hitting if they aren't hitting. The team as a whole didn't hit or stay injury free at all.

Plus, the pitching staff was decimated, I don't think they all got hurt because Jeter was in the two hole.

 

[br801]

I'm a Yankees fan and I've always loved Jeter, but this season I soured on him. He's a first ballot hall of famer and a Yankee legend but his faults showed this season.

His swing died before the season started. Girardi, being a player manager, wasn't going to move him down in the order. Jeter had to go and tell him to, and he didn't. Jeter should have been batting in the bottom third of the order. This would have allowed Ellsbury to bat second instead of being shoehorned into the third spot disrupting the order.

Jeter's career average fell .05 points this season. He's played in 142 games this season, only his third lowest career wise. This was the number 2 hitter... 46 runs, 145 hits, 18 doubles, 1 triple, 4 home runs, 46 RBIs, 10 stolen bases, 35 walks, 85 strikeouts, .253 avg, .301 obp, .309 slg, .611 ops, 177 total bases. All of those are the worst in his career except for the strikeouts which is tied for his second best season (assuming he doesn't SO in the last few games). Those numbers omit '95 and '13 where he played in under 17 games each season.

I'm not trashing his excellent career only this season. He still has the fifth best WAR in Yankee history (71) -- behind Ruth (142), Gehrig (112), Mantle (109), and DiMaggio (78). He won Rookie of the Year, finished top 3 in MVP voting three times, 14 time all-star (this season shouldn't count, though), 5 Gold Gloves, and 5 Silver Sluggers.

Next season the Yankees will be rid of all the greats of the late 90s and early 00s and can finally move on towards a new dynasty.

It seems you were expecting him to perform to his career numbers in his age 40 season after essentially missing a full year. That he did not should surprise no one.

What he did do was stay remarkably healthy while playing nearly every day at shortstop, and finish strongly at the plate after fighting through an extended batting slump in August and early September. That, too, should surprise no one who has followed his career closely.

As many others have pointed out in this thread, Jeter was far from the main (or only) culprit regarding the team's anemic offense this season, in a year when offensive production was down significantly throughout baseball.

And to correct one of your claims, his career batting average will ultimately fall by about 3 points this season, not 5 points (from .3124 to about .3094).

 

[br801]

No. I think Jeter was part of the problem. Him specifically being moved to the back of the lineup is the move that would have had the biggest impact, IMO. Other players didn't perform well, but Jeter performed worse. Guys like Headley, Prado, Gardner, Ellsbury, Ichiro, and Teixeira all had considerably higher OBP than Jeter this season. Even if that gives the Yankees 5 more wins they're potentially in the wild card spot.

And before anybody says this team wouldn't win a World Series anyway; the 2006 Cardinals won the World Series. Anybody can win, but it starts with getting in.

Since you seem like someone with a solid understanding of baseball metrics, you're clearly just trolling by stating that moving Jeter down in the order might have resulted in 5 more wins. Hell, I don't think putting Jeter's best season in the 2-hole would have produced 5 more wins for this team.

 

[AirForceOrange]

A patchwork starting pitcher staff, an overworked/used bullpen and a closer that didn't have a great year, plus aging position players and spots filled by untried rookies and low end free agents due to injuries...yet the Yankees missing the playoffs was Jeter's fault...

Also, you failed to mention (or overlooked) this is the 20th season in a row that the Yankees will finish with a winning record...even after all those issues stated above...I would argue that the Yankees would have stopped at 19 if not for Jeter's presence and leadership...