Jordan vs. Tiger

[SWC75]

Jordan Spieth tied Tiger Wood's masters record of 270 strokes for 72 holes, 18 under par.

But was it really the same achievement? Often scoring is a product of conditions. In 1977, Jack Nicklaus broke the British open record by 7 strokes but Tom Watson broke it by 8 strokes. The story behind the story was that the weather was good- warm and calm- and that's not normal for the British Open, which depends on bad weather to make their pitch and roll courses tough.

In this Masters, Spieth was 18 under but two guys were 14 under and two others 12 and 11 under. Phil Mickelson's -14 was better than his first two Masters winning performances, (-9 and -7) and all but 8 masters tournaments in history. Obviously the wet, soft greens were a big factor.

Here is the leader board for Tiger's 1997 victory at Augusta:
http://golf.about.com/library/weekly/bl1997masters.htm
I counted down ten golfers and added up how much under par they totaled and got -47.

Here is today's leader board:
http://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/index.html
I again counted down ten golfers and they were a total of -112 under par.

I think that suggests that a low score was more obtainable this week than it was 18 years ago.

 

[PoppyHart]

And how long was the course in 1997?

 

[kuethstheman]

Would it be valid to normalize scores relative to the field?

 

[br801]

Spieth grabbed control of this tournament on Thursday and never had anything less than a three stroke lead from that point forward in a tournament that has rarely been won wire-to-wire (and not since 1976). To me, that is arguably as impressive as Tiger's 1997 win, despite the smaller margin of victory. There's a reason majors are infrequently won on an outright lead from start to finish.

 

[victor]

And how long was the course in 1997?

I heard that 500 yards have been added to the course, but don't know when it happened.

 

[CuseCPT]

What does that mean, though? That a lower score was more obtainable?

 

[upperdeck]

when guys who are 50+ are hitting it 50 yds past longest hitters of the past then adding 500 yds doesnt mean anything. the bigger deal was the greens were so slow and soft.. listen to jack talk about his first time there and how we had nine 3 putts to miss the cut but tee to green was one of the best in the field. guys are hitting edges to holes guys used to hit 3-4 irons too. i wonder how these guys would do even with new clubs if they were hitting the green from 50 yds back. the game is so much easier.

 

[AZOrange]

Course played easy this year. Tiger won by 12.

 

[victor]

when guys who are 50+ are hitting it 50 yds past longest hitters of the past then adding 500 yds doesnt mean anything. the bigger deal was the greens were so slow and soft.. listen to jack talk about his first time there and how we had nine 3 putts to miss the cut but tee to green was one of the best in the field. guys are hitting edges to holes guys used to hit 3-4 irons too. i wonder how these guys would do even with new clubs if they were hitting the green from 50 yds back. the game is so much easier.

I agree with you on the equipment but the reference point being used was 1997. My recollection is that when Tiger set the record the course was shorter and par fives were much easier to reach and that's one reason why they lengthened the course. I am sure that if the greens were slow and soft that would have contributed to the low scores this year as well as wind conditions.

On a different note I did hear Jack say that the first time he played the Masters he hit 30 greens the first two rounds shot 150 and missed the cut. Palmer hit 19 greens and shot 141 for the first 2 rounds and that's what made him realize how critical putting was at the Masters. He also said that the first tournament he entered as a pro. he came in fiftieth place and won 33 dollars. Imagine that.

 

[SWC75]

I agree with you on the equipment but the reference point being used was 1997. My recollection is that when Tiger set the record the course was shorter and par fives were much easier to reach and that's one reason why they lengthened the course. I am sure that if the greens were slow and soft that would have contributed to the low scores this year as well as wind conditions.

On a different note I did hear Jack say that the first time he played the Masters he hit 30 greens the first two rounds shot 150 and missed the cut. Palmer hit 19 greens and shot 141 for the first 2 rounds and that's what made him realize how critical putting was at the Masters. He also said that the first tournament he entered as a pro. he came in fiftieth place and won 33 dollars. Imagine that.

My comparison suggested that scoring was easier in 2015 than 1997 for whatever reason, simply because the rest of the field was scoring better, (the top ten guys averaging 11 under in 2015 vs. 5 under in 1997).

 

[PoppyHart]

There are also a bunch more "great" players now than there were 20 years ago. Tiger, even when playing his absolute best (which is once in a blue moon), is probably not going to win these days. Tiger playing his "B-" game in the late 90s/early aughts, was still a considerable favorite.

 

[AZOrange]

There are also a bunch more "great" players now than there were 20 years ago. Tiger, even when playing his absolute best (which is once in a blue moon), is probably not going to win these days. Tiger playing his "B-" game in the late 90s/early aughts, was still a considerable favorite.

Tiger playing his best is probably not going to win? Come on.

 

[CanadianSU]

course was a joke this year made it boring

 

[PoppyHart]

Tiger playing his best is probably not going to win? Come on.

The guys ahead of him at this time (Rory, Fowler, Spieth, Reed, Walker, etc...) are so consistent and their best right now is better than Tiger's best imo.

 

[jncuse]

The guys ahead of him at this time (Rory, Fowler, Spieth, Reed, Walker, etc...) are so consistent and their best right now is better than Tiger's best imo.

When was the last time any of those guys, or even any guy on tour for that matter, won 8 times in a span of 26 events...like Tiger did just 2 years ago? Has it happened since Tiger started on tour in 1996 (other than by Tiger of course). I don't think so -- offthe top of my head Duval (99), Singh (04) and Rory may have come close but I don't they actually pulled off 8 in 26. .

This wasn't years ago.. it was 24 months ago. We know that Tiger takes time after a swing change and injuries... and then once he hits a stride he makes an extended run. His best "today", unless brought down by the real concern of injuries, will not be close to his best in 6 months. To say he can no longer win when he is at his best... when his best 2 years ago was better than anybody else accomplished win wise in this past generation is flawed to me.

And no I am not expecting him to beat Jack, become world #1 again, win 8 out of 26 agains... but i do expect him to be able to win again, multiple times.

 

[PoppyHart]

When was the last time any of those guys, or even any guy on tour for that matter, won 8 times in a span of 26 events...like Tiger did just 2 years ago? Has it happened since Tiger started on tour in 1996 (other than by Tiger of course). I don't think so -- offthe top of my head Duval (99), Singh (04) and Rory may have come close but I don't they actually pulled off 8 in 26. .

This wasn't years ago.. it was 24 months ago. We know that Tiger takes time after a swing change and injuries... and then once he hits a stride he makes an extended run. His best "today", unless brought down by the real concern of injuries, will not be close to his best in 6 months. To say he can no longer win when he is at his best... when his best 2 years ago was better than anybody else accomplished win wise in this past generation is flawed to me.

And no I am not expecting him to beat Jack, become world #1 again, win 8 out of 26 agains... but i do expect him to be able to win again, multiple times.

Let's put aside the fact that tiger was 35-36 when he began his last run, not 39+ if he ever makes another run. It's not about any one person racking up those totals. It's the aggregate. Since tiger's last win in Aug. 2013, Rory has won 6 times globally, Walker has won 5 times, Spieth has won 4 times globally, Reed has won 4 times. 4 guys, 19 wins since tiger's last.

Yes, he certainly could win again, especially at one of his chosen courses if was healthy (Doral, T. Pines, Firestone, etc...) but when majors roll around he's just another contender (i.e. not a favorite). His chances of winning a major are closer to those of Jonas Blixt than Justin Rose.