Kansas is an example why the college basketball regular season doesn't really matter

[Alsacs]

I mean they have been super successful and that fanbase should appreciate Bill Self.
385-83 in 13 years.
12 regular season Big XII titles
7 Big XII tournament titles
1 National Title
2 Final Fours
Self has had Kansas as a 4 seed or better EVERY year.
2004- 4 seed Elite 8
2005- 3 seed first round flameout
2006- 4 seed first round flameout
2007- 1 seed Elite 8
2008- 1 seed NC
2009- 3 seed Sweet 16
2010- 1 seed second round loss to 9 seed
2011- 1 seed Elite 8 lost to 11 seed VCU
2012- 2 seed Final Four lost NC game
2013- 1 seed Sweet 16
2014- 2 seed second round loss to 10 seed
2015- 2 seed second round loss to 7 seed
2016- 1 seed Elite 8.

This kinda of success is unbelievable but when you look at it the regular season.
UConn has missed the NCAA tournament 4 times during this stretch and has 3 NCs.
Syracuse has missed the NCAA tournament 3 times during this stretch and has as many Final Fours.
Duke and UNC have 2 titles during this stretch.

Kansas fans must be frustrated by the tournament but their regular season success is amazing.

What is better Post season runs or dominant regular seasons?

 

[longislandcuse]

Post Season is all that matters.

Seriously. That's it.

Do well in the regular season so you can position yourself, as a program, to accumulate Sweet 16's, Final 4's and National Championship's.

 

[AZOrange]

I mean they have been super successful and that fanbase should appreciate Bill Self.
385-83 in 13 years.
12 regular season Big XII titles
7 Big XII tournament titles
1 National Title
2 Final Fours
Self has had Kansas as a 4 seed or better EVERY year.
2004- 4 seed Elite 8
2005- 3 seed first round flameout
2006- 4 seed first round flameout
2007- 1 seed Elite 8
2008- 1 seed NC
2009- 3 seed Sweet 16
2010- 1 seed second round loss to 9 seed
2011- 1 seed Elite 8 lost to 11 seed VCU
2012- 2 seed Final Four lost NC game
2013- 1 seed Sweet 16
2014- 2 seed second round loss to 10 seed
2015- 2 seed second round loss to 7 seed
2016- 1 seed Elite 8.

This kinda of success is unbelievable but when you look at it the regular season.
UConn has missed the NCAA tournament 4 times during this stretch and has 3 NCs.
Syracuse has missed the NCAA tournament 3 times during this stretch and has as many Final Fours.
Duke and UNC have 2 titles during this stretch.

Kansas fans must be frustrated by the tournament but their regular season success is amazing.

What is better Post season runs or dominant regular seasons?

Is this rhetorical?

Self is a great recruiter and a good coach in a perennially weak conference. He's so overrated from a game day perspective it's ridiculous. I honestly can't believe there aren't more rumblings out of Kansas about him.

 

[Cusefan0307]

2013, we were on meltdown mode at the end of the year after scoring 39 against Georgetown. Triche sucked/MCW sucked, we go to the final four. 2016, we have been on meltdown mode multiple times and Cooney sucked/Roberson sucked, and we go to the final four. Somehow we will still be on meltdown mode when we lose a game in January next year.

 

[Alsacs]

Is this rhetorical?

Self is a great recruiter and a good coach in a perennially weak conference. He's so overrated from a game day perspective it's ridiculous. I honestly can't believe there aren't more rumblings out of Kansas about him.

I am of the mind set that all that matters is championships and Final Fours/Sweet 16s.

Others may like consistency and just deem the tournament a crap shoot.

I don't care if my program misses the tournament 4 times if it wins 3 NC in the process. Others may feel differently. That was the idea I was provoking discussion on.

Kansas has been a top 16 team in the regular season 13 seasons in a row. Only has 7 Sweet 16 appearances in that timeframe but does 1 NC to rest its laurels on.

Why do you say Self is a bad gameday coach?

 

[Alsacs]

2013, we were on meltdown mode at the end of the year after scoring 39 against Georgetown. Triche sucked/MCW sucked, we go to the final four. 2016, we have been on meltdown mode multiple times and Cooney sucked/Roberson sucked, and we go to the final four. Somehow we will still be on meltdown mode when we lose a game in January next year.

Syracuse basketball loves drama. Sadly it is a little Kardashian esque.

2012 was the worst. Our fanbase was miserable during a 30-1 regular season. I tend to be fair when things are good I am uber positive but when I am frustrated I let it been known. That 2012 season drove me nuts with our fans complaining about close wins.

We couldn't appreciate 30-1.

 

[HakAttack]

I am of the mind set that all that matters is championships and Final Fours/Sweet 16s.

Others may like consistency and just deem the tournament a crap shoot.

I don't care if my program misses the tournament 4 times if it wins 3 NC in the process. Others may feel differently. That was the idea I was provoking discussion on.

Kansas has been a top 16 team in the regular season 13 seasons in a row. Only has 7 Sweet 16 appearances in that timeframe but does 1 NC to rest its laurels on.

Why do you say Self is a bad gameday coach?

For me, a dominant regular season is just as memorable as a Final Four run. Look at 2012. They lost THREE times all season. Once to ND after starting unbeaten, once in the BET, and in the Regional Final to OSU.

That's really, really hard to do. That team is just as memorable, IMO, as the 2013 team.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Well in the end it seems like NCAA performance is all that matters but let's face it: we all live and die with every game during the season. So as a matter of my personal feeling, they are all important. That game where Ennis gutted Pitt with a dagger three had me as happy as our Gonzaga win. The OT Duke game in the dome was as big of a moment in my mind. The game where JT2 got ejected from the dome: same thing.

But at the same time, the games that are absolutely burned into our minds are these tourney games. So in general I am agreeing but I also think every game is the most important game ever during the moments it is being played.

 

[longislandcuse]

Syracuse basketball loves drama. Sadly it is a little Kardashian esque.

2012 was the worst. Our fanbase was miserable during a 30-1 regular season. I tend to be fair when things are good I am uber positive but when I am frustrated I let it been known. That 2012 season drove me nuts with our fans complaining about close wins.

We couldn't appreciate 30-1.

We couldn't appreciate 30-1 because the tournament is all that matters and we saw huge chinks in the armor that would be exposed come postseason, which it was, which is why nobody really cares about that team. Not trying to be a jerk, just putting it bluntly, that's why.

Tyler Ennis/Jerami Grant would be legends if that team did anything in the postseason, but they didn't.

MCW and G/Mali/Lydon are legends. Their regular seasons kind of sucked but we don't care because they brought us (at least) two Final 4's.

 

[Alsacs]

For me, a dominant regular season is just as memorable as a Final Four run. Look at 2012. They lost THREE times all season. Once to ND after starting unbeaten, once in the BET, and in the Regional Final to OSU.

That's really, really hard to do. That team is just as memorable, IMO, as the 2013 team.

Maybe to the fanbases but in the annals of history I bet even without the sanctions our 2012 team would be forgotten nationally.

It is the tournament success that I believe is remembered.

 

[Orangemen]

Syracuse basketball loves drama. Sadly it is a little Kardashian esque.

2012 was the worst. Our fanbase was miserable during a 30-1 regular season. I tend to be fair when things are good I am uber positive but when I am frustrated I let it been known. That 2012 season drove me nuts with our fans complaining about close wins.

We couldn't appreciate 30-1.

I found the 30-1 year really interesting. It's great being a dominant team, but there is a different kind of stress that goes with it.

When you are fighting for a league title or a 1 seed, every loss feels like a nightmare. And every close win is somehow a sign of weakness. I always assumed that rooting for a dominant team was fun since you won every time, but it was much different than I expected it to be.

It's almost (almost) better to be sitting in the 2/3 seed range where a loss or 2 doesn't kill you.

But don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to go through the stress of another 30-1 season.

 

[HakAttack]

Maybe to the fanbases but in the annals of history I bet even without the sanctions our 2012 team would be forgotten nationally.

It is the tournament success that I believe is remembered.

Oh I completely agree. And even as a fan you tend to remember Final Four teams much more fondly. Just getting to the Final Four is an accomplishment in itself.

 

[HakAttack]

I found the 30-1 year really interesting. It's great being a dominant team, but there is a different kind of stress that goes with it.

When you are fighting for a league title or a 1 seed, every loss feels like a nightmare. And every close win is somehow a sign of weakness. I always assumed that rooting for a dominant team was fun since you won every time, but it was much different than I expected it to be.

It's almost (almost) better to be sitting in the 2/3 seed range where a loss or 2 doesn't kill you.

But don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to go through the stress of another 30-1 season.

Could not agree more. For me, the unexpected underdog seasons are far more gratifying because you have low expectations that build up over time and culminate in excitement, not entitlement or expectation to win.

In 2012, we EXPECTED to win it all. The pressure as a fan is gut wrenching. When you're at the top, there's nowhere to go but down.

I much prefer a slow, unexpected rise to the summit than already being at the summit and having to fight as king of the hill. It's so much more rewarding as a fan.

 

[Alsacs]

We couldn't appreciate 30-1 because the tournament is all that matters and we saw huge chinks in the armor that would be exposed come postseason, which it was, which is why nobody really cares about that team. Not trying to be a jerk, just putting it bluntly, that's why.

Tyler Ennis would be a legend if that team did anything in the postseason, but they didn't.

MCW and G/Mali/Lydon are legends. Their regular seasons kind of sucked but we don't care because they brought us (at least) two Final 4's.

I thought 2012 validated its regular season. They made the Elite 8 and lost to a 2 seed that been a top 5 team most of the year in Ohio State in an awfully officiated game.

I think those 2 teams split 10 games if they played that many times.

2012 was not vulnerable at all. Even without Melo that team had
Gs- Scoop/Triche/Waiter/MCW
Fs- Joseph/Fair/Southerland
Cs- Christmas/Keita

that 9 man squad makes the Final Four A LOT. The Elite Eight wasn't really underachieving. When you get to the Elite 8 its a coin flip.

 

[BuffOrange]

For previous years I'll take postseason. If I'm trying to predict future success I'd rather bet on the regular season (would anyone really bet on Uconn winning another title before Kansas?).

 

[Dave85]

I mean they have been super successful and that fanbase should appreciate Bill Self.
385-83 in 13 years.
12 regular season Big XII titles
7 Big XII tournament titles
1 National Title
2 Final Fours
Self has had Kansas as a 4 seed or better EVERY year.
2004- 4 seed Elite 8
2005- 3 seed first round flameout
2006- 4 seed first round flameout
2007- 1 seed Elite 8
2008- 1 seed NC
2009- 3 seed Sweet 16
2010- 1 seed second round loss to 9 seed
2011- 1 seed Elite 8 lost to 11 seed VCU
2012- 2 seed Final Four lost NC game
2013- 1 seed Sweet 16
2014- 2 seed second round loss to 10 seed
2015- 2 seed second round loss to 7 seed
2016- 1 seed Elite 8.

This kinda of success is unbelievable but when you look at it the regular season.
UConn has missed the NCAA tournament 4 times during this stretch and has 3 NCs.
Syracuse has missed the NCAA tournament 3 times during this stretch and has as many Final Fours.
Duke and UNC have 2 titles during this stretch.

Kansas fans must be frustrated by the tournament but their regular season success is amazing.

What is better Post season runs or dominant regular seasons?

I'd rather be a 10th seed and make the FF than be a 2nd or 3rd seed and be out the first or second round.

 

[TheCusian]

Could not agree more. For me, the unexpected underdog seasons are far more gratifying because you have low expectations that build up over time and culminate in excitement, not entitlement or expectation to win. In 2012, we EXPECTED to win it all. The pressure as a fan is gut wrenching. When you're at the top, there's nowhere to go but down. I much prefer a slow, unexpected rise to the summit than already being at the summit and having to fight as king of the hill. It's so much more rewarding as a fan.

Exactly. And with that added pressure, a team can get tight in the tourney.

Either Self is a bad game day coach, a bad motivator (doesn't know how to unwind his players in big games) - or a combo of both.

The Big 12 does them no favors either. We take more punches in conference on average than they do - that helps build grit.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I found the 30-1 year really interesting. It's great being a dominant team, but there is a different kind of stress that goes with it.

When you are fighting for a league title or a 1 seed, every loss feels like a nightmare. And every close win is somehow a sign of weakness. I always assumed that rooting for a dominant team was fun since you won every time, but it was much different than I expected it to be.

It's almost (almost) better to be sitting in the 2/3 seed range where a loss or 2 doesn't kill you.

But don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to go through the stress of another 30-1 season.

This is so true. My emotional state the week up to the Wisconsin game 2012 compared to Gonzaga last weekend is laughable.

Being a fan of a dominant team can be torture.

 

[Dave85]

Is this rhetorical?

Self is a great recruiter and a good coach in a perennially weak conference. He's so overrated from a game day perspective it's ridiculous. I honestly can't believe there aren't more rumblings out of Kansas about him.

Yeah, Self is a great recruiter, agreed. Too bad with all that talent they are not having as much fun as we are!

 

[KaiserUEO]

Syracuse basketball loves drama. Sadly it is a little Kardashian esque.

2012 was the worst. Our fanbase was miserable during a 30-1 regular season. I tend to be fair when things are good I am uber positive but when I am frustrated I let it been known. That 2012 season drove me nuts with our fans complaining about close wins.

We couldn't appreciate 30-1.

I was miserable afterward.

a great season.

but...a failure of a season.

1 whatever moment.

1 unenjoyable moment.

1 absolutely Fn ridiculous and frustrating moment that made the whole season a Fn colossal waste.

 

[Knicks411]

Is this rhetorical?

Self is a great recruiter and a good coach in a perennially weak conference. He's so overrated from a game day perspective it's ridiculous. I honestly can't believe there aren't more rumblings out of Kansas about him.

I think there have been something like 3 coaches that have made the last 12 NCAA tournaments, meanwhile Self has won the conference 12 years in a row. That's amazing, even if the Big 12 isn't always the best league in the country.

I guess if he hadn't won the title in 08 he'd be at some risk, but I'd struggle to see it.

 

[Dave85]

Exactly. And with that added pressure, a team can get tight in the tourney.

Either Self is a bad game day coach, a bad motivator (doesn't know how to unwind his players in big games) - or a combo of both.

The Big 12 does them no favors either. We take more punches in conference on average than they do - that helps build grit.

I think the conference they play in does not prepare them very well for East coast ball which is a much faster pace game.

 

[BuffOrange]

I still remember him kneeling on the sidelines in the '08 E8, about to crap his pants as Curry had a shot in the air to beat him. Oh man if that went in.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Post Season is all that matters.

Which is dumb, since it's a single elimination tournament and that lends itself to weirdness.

 

[NKR1978]

I found the 30-1 year really interesting. It's great being a dominant team, but there is a different kind of stress that goes with it.

Couldn't agree with this more. The tournaments when we're a 1 seed are just not fun after Selection Sunday. The stress that comes with not wanting to be the first 1 seed eliminated almost ruins it for me.