Kansas is an example why the college basketball regular season doesn't really matter | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Kansas is an example why the college basketball regular season doesn't really matter

I think Self does an amazing job. To be that good and that consistent every year. I know he's had Wiggins and Embid and the Morris brothers but he's also had teams that had no NBA guys, and he's won. Has he had early flame outs - sure but so has everyone. You put yourself in the arena enough times, your going to have some scars.
 
I think Self does an amazing job. To be that good and that consistent every year. I know he's had Wiggins and Embid and the Morris brothers but he's also had teams that had no NBA guys, and he's won. Has he had early flame outs - sure but so has everyone. You put yourself in the arena enough times, your going to have some scars.

I agree.

If anything, I would argue that Cal is the one coach that has underachieved. Consider the players he has had at UK, he should have more than one title.

That isn't even considering his time at UMass and Memphis.
 
I agree.

If anything, I would argue that Cal is the one coach that has underachieved. Consider the players he has had at UK, he should have more than one title.

That isn't even considering his time at UMass and Memphis.
Calipari since 2010
2010- 1 seed lost in the Elite 8
2011- 4 seed lost in the Final Four
2012- 1 seed won NC
2013- NIT
2014- 8 seed lost in the NC game
2015- 1 seed lost in the Final Four
2016- 4 seed lost in the 2nd round

7 years
5 SEC regular season titles
4 SEC conference titles
1 NC
4 Final Fours
1 Elite Eight

I think he has done a pretty good job. That 2015 team was the best team IMO and lost to the only team I think that could have beaten them and I think they win that game for times than they lose it.

The 2015 Kentucky D was insanely good.

Calipari has done more than Self IMO.
 
Calipari since 2010
2010- 1 seed lost in the Elite 8
2011- 4 seed lost in the Final Four
2012- 1 seed won NC
2013- NIT
2014- 8 seed lost in the NC game
2015- 1 seed lost in the Final Four
2016- 4 seed lost in the 2nd round

7 years
5 SEC regular season titles
4 SEC conference titles
1 NC
4 Final Fours
1 Elite Eight

I think he has done a pretty good job. That 2015 team was the best team IMO and lost to the only team I think that could have beaten them and I think they win that game for times than they lose it.

The 2015 Kentucky D was insanely good.

Calipari has done more than Self IMO.
But Cal has had more nba players in that timeframe than Self so is there really any surprise hes had more post season success? Its a tough call
 
I agree.

If anything, I would argue that Cal is the one coach that has underachieved. Consider the players he has had at UK, he should have more than one title.

That isn't even considering his time at UMass and Memphis.

I don't know man, 4 final fours in seven years at UK is pretty ridiculous; especially since he made another elite 8. Considering how tough it is to win a single elimination tournament, I feel like it's tough to say anyone "should" win more than 1 title in any 7 year stretch. This is real back of the envelope stuff, but if you gave him a 25% chance of winning the tournament every year (which is really high, Michigan state was like 5-1, which implies somewhere around 16%), then after seven years that would be an expectation of 1.75 titles.
 
I think the whole regular season vs post season success thing is fascinating and i think SU fans could potentially have a very interesting year next year in that respect.

Let me put it this way: if we assume TL, Mal, TyRob, DC all return next year; lets do two polls: 1) how many SU fans would think the 2017 SU squad would have a better regular season record than this 2016 squad?? (I would put it at something like 75-80%, if not 90%). 2) How many SU fans would think the 2017 SU squad would go further in the Ncaas than this 2016 squad?? (I would put it realistically at far less than 40%, maybe 20%)...

Post season vs regular season is very fickle. Big expectations dont necessarily help. Just ask Self. Or look at the fact that JB has never made the FF as a 1 seed...
 
I don't know man, 4 final fours in seven years at UK is pretty ridiculous; especially since he made another elite 8. Considering how tough it is to win a single elimination tournament, I feel like it's tough to say anyone "should" win more than 1 title in any 7 year stretch. This is real back of the envelope stuff, but if you gave him a 25% chance of winning the tournament every year (which is really high, Michigan state was like 5-1, which implies somewhere around 16%), then after seven years that would be an expectation of 1.75 titles.
His FF and elite 8 record is very very impressive at UK. On the other hand his number of titles is slightly underacheiving imo, given the # of nba players hes had...
 
I think it's all about branding. The Orange are having a HUGE tournament in terms of branding.
No doubt. If we flame out in the tournament, I just blame the single elimination format. If we go far, it's because we're awesome. Win win, perspective wise.
 
I do think Kansas gets a ridiculous advantage from the refs in the big12. I have been watching for a looooong time and it seems you have to play well enough to beat them by 12 at Allen Field House to counteract the advantage and about 6-7 when they are away. It doesn't seem to help them much in the tourney either. They are always very good but I don't feel they are as good as the big12 makes them look and they struggle in tight NCCAT games because they don't get that same advantage as in the big12.
 
Good lord. Self might actually guide Kansas to be the first team ever to lose as a 1 seed in the tournament in the opening round one of these years. That's almost extremely tempting to bet on one day... I mean, the payout has to be huge for betting on a 16 seed right?
 
I think you're both underestimating the value Fab Melo provided on that 2011-12 team. Once he was declared out, I never expected to win it all. The sophomore Rak Christmas that season was not even close to the senior Rak Christmas we saw two seasons later.

We saw how important Fabricio was to that SU team when we nearly lost to a 16 seed in the first round.
Saw how important he was when we lost that first game at ND from his suspension. That's when things got hairy
 
Bill Self already validated himself as good coach with the work he did with Illinois, Tulsa, and Oral Roberts.

And I don't give a f#ck how weak the 12 is. A run of ref season titles is impressive no matter what.
 
JB's press conference kinda validates the regular season success isn't always a teller if you make a run in March.
 
post season for me. That's all that matters. nothing better than NCAA with Syracuse making a run.
 
It usually doesn't, for us this year and last year's regular seasons are really important.
 
You don't have to win the regular season championship every year. You don't have to win the conference tournament every year. You just have to make sure your regular season results are good enough so that you're not at the mercy of the committee or needing virtually no upsets in conference tourneys to make the field. Winning 10-13 games in the ACC with an OOC schedule that isn't 9 games against the Little Sisters of the Poor's Home for Wayward Girls is usually enough in most years to get you in.
 
I mean they have been super successful and that fanbase should appreciate Bill Self.
385-83 in 13 years.
12 regular season Big XII titles
7 Big XII tournament titles
1 National Title
2 Final Fours
Self has had Kansas as a 4 seed or better EVERY year.
2004- 4 seed Elite 8
2005- 3 seed first round flameout
2006- 4 seed first round flameout
2007- 1 seed Elite 8
2008- 1 seed NC
2009- 3 seed Sweet 16
2010- 1 seed second round loss to 9 seed
2011- 1 seed Elite 8 lost to 11 seed VCU
2012- 2 seed Final Four lost NC game
2013- 1 seed Sweet 16
2014- 2 seed second round loss to 10 seed
2015- 2 seed second round loss to 7 seed
2016- 1 seed Elite 8.

This kinda of success is unbelievable but when you look at it the regular season.
UConn has missed the NCAA tournament 4 times during this stretch and has 3 NCs.
Syracuse has missed the NCAA tournament 3 times during this stretch and has as many Final Fours.
Duke and UNC have 2 titles during this stretch.

Kansas fans must be frustrated by the tournament but their regular season success is amazing.

What is better Post season runs or dominant regular seasons?

When one team dominates a league like that its mid major IMO
 
I mean the fact that West Virginia went from being about the 7th best program in the Big east to the 2nd or 3rd best program in the Big 12 tells you a lot. Not every teams regular season record is built the same.
 
It is all important to me. I enjoy watching every game, no matter the importance.

The team is judged on postseason success, and rightfully so. But there's no reason to say that the regular season isn't as important or enjoyable, if successful of course, as the postseason.

Postseason results are under more scrutiny when the regular season is extremely successful. The end of the season is usually tougher when you have a top team instead of a mediocre team. 2012 hurt so much more than 2013 or 2016.

As for Kansas, their lack of tourney success has to be annoying and tough to swallow. They routinely march through the usually weak B12, so expectations are probably extremely high every NCAAT. Thus, the losses probably hurt more than if they had middling regular season success.
 
This may be the strangest thread in the history of this board. If Kansas fans our frustrated then we should all just shoot ourselves in the head.

They won a title in 2008, runner up in 2012, and have been in the elite 8 5 times in the past 10 years.

I would take what they've done the past decade over what we've done in a heart beat, all while winning their league every year.

You guys kill me sometimes.
 

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