Keystone Pipeline

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by gbomb, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. gbomb

    gbomb Walk On

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    voted down by the democrats in Senate today. Seriously dont get this at all. Gas projected to soar this summer. How is this not a good thing to have. Obama walks on water with the liberal base but doesn't this make you think twice about voting for him?
  2. Cuse_MN

    Cuse_MN Scout Team

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    where was the outrage when the republican governor of nebraska blocked the pipeline last year?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...down-hints-at-red-state-environmentalism.html

    transcanada has said they see "the Nebraska-aquifer issue as the primary obstacle that defeated the project" and also said

    “He [President Obama] made it very clear that it was not being denied on the merits,” Pourbaix said. “And he encouraged us to reapply.”

    the southern leg is moving forward. the northern leg will be delayed a year until 2015. approving it would have no impact on gasoline prices this year. the primary reason oil is high and thus gasoline is due to the threat that israel attacks iran. which party supports everything israel does?
  3. Cuse_MN

    Cuse_MN Scout Team

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    you do realize this is a foreign company that has yet to tell the US exactly where the pipeline will cross our country?
  4. Faegan

    Faegan Starter

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    Haven't you been paying attention? President Obama has been telling everyone all week that oil is of the past. He really doesn't care. I'm not saying that derisively. He feels that the high prices will hasten the death of oil as a primary energy source.

    HENCE the pipeline, Mr. President! At this point he knows prices are going nowhere but up from here, and he's got no other choice than to tack to the left on this issue.
  5. Smithers-Jones

    Smithers-Jones Walk On

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    Yes, let's build something, no questions asked, that has the potential to pollute an aquifer that supplies water to a large part of the Midwest. Maybe people should stop driving their three ton SUVs and pickups instead. I'm sure it will be built someday when more questions have been answered. In the meantime, how much should gas cost anyway? $1/gallon? $3? $5? Welcome to the free market all of you Republicans.
  6. gbomb

    gbomb Walk On

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    Keep doing nothing is a great policy. The cfl bulbs and defective VOLT batteries in the landfills will pollute more than the pipeline. How about we all get bicycles, just like in China.
  7. Smithers-Jones

    Smithers-Jones Walk On

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    And who in China is getting a bicycle? They are the largest automobile producer in the world.

    Enjoy your $10 loaf of bread if the pipeline pollutes the Olagalla aquifer and our wheat supply is contaminated.

    (An aside: sometimes doing nothing is the best choice. Not necessarily in this case. But after 9-11 the urge to do "SOMETHING. ANYTHING!" was probably responsible for the Iraq war and 100,000 or so dead people.)

    Once again - how much is gas supposed to cost? How much is too much? You sound like a free market person, you should know that there is no answer.
  8. gbomb

    gbomb Walk On

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    Is this what you want are streets to become? I certainly hope not because this is when you know our gas costs to much:bat:
  9. Smithers-Jones

    Smithers-Jones Walk On

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    I live in Boston. I don't see much difference. :) A few drives through Cambridge and you'll get the idea. Plus we have the ever dangerous Fung Wah buses (Google it).
  10. Cusee44

    Cusee44 2nd String

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    Let's feed more money to the oil companies and keep driving our 10mph SUVs. We're Americans, we don't adjust to the changing times. The times must adjust to us! Let the insanity continue.
  11. STEVEHOLT

    STEVEHOLT All Conference

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    the price of gas is actually heavily subsidized such that it is FAR cheaper than free market would dictate in this country. this is a fact. i have no opinion on this fact. when gas prices reach a point that people cant buy the gas, the supply will go up..and the price will come down.
  12. Faegan

    Faegan Starter

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    The environmental concerns shouldn't be enough to block this project. I'm all for green initiatives, but as Solyndra demonstrates, we are not even close to being able to sustain ourselves that way. The pipeline would be much safer than what is already in place, as the technology and materials used to create it are far better than what currently is criss-crossing our entire country right now. Are there potential problems? Always. Seems to me there are also problems with sending our troops to the Middle East to ensure we have access to energy.

    Oil companies are not blameless in this. Right now oil is a huge EXPORT of the U.S., because pricing in Asia makes it more profitable to ship it than use it here. Free-markets are the answer, but we have to find a way to navigate them to create an effective national energy policy that will end our reliance on the Middle East for energy.

    I'm just one man with one vote. It's not going to anyone who doesn't honestly put forth a plan that will end our reliance on the Middle East. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama, collectively, have done squat to make this happen.
  13. armory

    armory Hall of Fame

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    I've got an idea to lower gas prices!

    Stop inflating our currency.
  14. Smithers-Jones

    Smithers-Jones Walk On

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    Good points. Collectively there is a greater potential for environmental problems (train wrecks, tanker leaks, etc.) but there is less chance of a catastrophic disaster like contaminating a huge aquifer.

    We all know that the pipeline will happen someday because it's generally a good idea. I'd love to see if only so we could stop depending on crap countries like Saudi Arabia. My issue is with the rush to build it RIGHT NOW in the hope of some immediate effect on fuel prices.
  15. gbomb

    gbomb Walk On

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    Why not RIGHT NOW? does putting off all the jobs created help the economy. What is the issue, do you have proof there will be a catastrophic disaster by building the pipeline. It's easy to cast fear on the project but where are the historical facts? No one believes building the pipeline will immediately drop gas prices. There may not be any noticeable impact but doing nothing certainly isn't helping at all either.

    from the linked article:
    "It is one of many treasured sources of water in the United States. Independent government analysis has concluded that a pipeline leak would not threaten the aquifer"
    http://www.keystonexlnebraska.com/the-facts/the-ogallala-aquifer
  16. Smithers-Jones

    Smithers-Jones Walk On

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    I found lots of articles from the other side too (I read yours, it makes a good case, but so do others). I'm not sure we know the answer yet within an acceptable degree of certainty, which is why I am against rushing to a decision in order to patch a short/medium-term economic issue.

    I'm also suspicious of backers of any project who push for something to be done immediately, because I think the subtext is "before anyone finds out it might be a bad idea". (By backers I don't mean you, I mean people with $$ in the game - I view you and I more like advocates).

    I'll end this post like I end a lot of posts about gas prices - "How much is gas supposed to cost?"
  17. SmilinBob

    SmilinBob Hall of Fame

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    Once we lose our water it's over, game set match. A lot of smart/manipulate the system people have bought land in certain areas where water is abundant and ironically have a lot of ties to oil. Stay away from the aquifers because we can live without oil, water not so much. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that oil companies are making sure the prices stay high to cause panic about paying $5 or more a gallon to make people desperate to rape our water sheds.
  18. gbomb

    gbomb Walk On

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    Facts don't support your claims. "Since 1930, 24,000,000,000 barrels of crude oil have been produced within the Ogallala Aquifer. In Nebraska, 500,000,000 barrels of crude oil have been produced from 2,000 oil wells drilled through the Ogallala Aquifer." The quickest way to slow a project is create fear, something liberals love to do.
  19. TheRoyalIveyFund

    TheRoyalIveyFund Starter

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    Are you serious? It's hard to discuss these kind of things intelligently when you compare the gov of Neb to Obama and the Senate.

    I'm not sure how many people on this board live in Nebraska, or even know someone in Neb, but we all have one common Prez that sets the tone for the Nation's Energy policy. We also each have two Senators that are representing us and making a decision that can impact gas prices (either now, a month from now, or 10 years from now) and national defense. Energy imported from a pipe a few miles away means less reliance on ME oil, and not paying more expensive Brent from overseas.

    When the man you select to lead the Dept of Energy says "I would like higher gas prices to get us off fossil fuels", then please admit the man is a failure in this arena.
  20. CIL

    CIL Starter

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    I really don't get this whole debate over the Keystone pipeline, on either side to be honest. This is really an example of politicking for politicking sake. The pipeline will increase oil supply by 500,000 to 700,000 barrels a day. That sounds like a big number, but considering worldwide production is 90 million a day it's a drop in the bucket and would have little impact on the price of gasoline, considering it would provide less than one percent of supply.

    The world is far more concerned about Iran, and losing their 4 million barrels of oil, which is anywhere from 6 to 8 times more supply than the Keystone pipeline could provide.

    If you want to be pissed off, be pissed off at the futures market, which is little more than a casino these days for commodities traders. Of course, no party will touch that market, for there's too much backing money to lose for the politicians. It's much easier for the Democrats to point to alternative energies and much easier for Republicans to point fingers at the Democrats.

    If the markets were contained to those actually wanting to lock in the price of oil, orange juice, etc for delivery, we would much less of the volatile swings in commodities we see today.
  21. TheRoyalIveyFund

    TheRoyalIveyFund Starter

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    You make some good points and assuming your 5-7 # is accurate, 700K is about 6% of the 11.8M we import. To put that in context, we import about 9% from Saudi.

    Also, you make a great point about the futures market. You can blame the massive spending and inflation on that. When yields are near 0 and everyone sees inflation on the way, people will go long oil.

    Many, many issues would be resolved by reining in spending to a minimum of historic %'s of GDP.
  22. Capt. Tuttle

    Capt. Tuttle Hall of Fame

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    That is what the Libs want: to cripple the middle class, making them the working poor, thereby making them dependent on the government, thereby voting Dem.

    Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk
  23. CIL

    CIL Starter

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    People will go long anything, not just oil.

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