Kidd joining Knicks

[longislandcuse]

Chances of that were null and void when the OP threw the wife-beating reference into the post that started this whole thread.

I'm shocked, guess I shouldn't be, that it's not possible to even reach unanimity that beating other people, including those smaller and probably weaker, is bad.

If I were a Knicks fan, I'd like this pickup. Kidd may be no kid, but he's still a great passer.

Noone said it isnt bad? The debate is on the forgiveness and being able to redeem yourself aspect, which some people seem to think he should have a Scarlet Letter on his shirt at all times declaring him a woman beater.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

 

[br801]

Yes, and I still felt like making the statement. If you disagree thats cool man. How old are you? Have you met women like J Kidd's wife? Do you know what went on in their relationship? I never said hitting a woman is right, its completely and utterly wrong but I think what I posted is relevant as an offshoot to this discussion. If noone cares to expand on it, fine but ive been around women like that in my life and so maybe that makes me more understanding that much more goes on and someone shouldnt be demonized forever if, in fact, they changed, which I believe Kidd has.

I'm old enough to recognize that it doesn't take much to send you off on a preachy rant. And I never said you aren't entitled to do so if you wish.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Wow. What did I ever do to you? I happen to know Jason Kidd, and I happen to genuinely like him. If I were not such a techno-klutz, the picture I tried to include in my original post might have worked (It was a picture of me and him, with me wearing his Gold Medal in Beijing). I've had an amazing and blessed life, and I have been fortunate to know a lot of people. I generally hesitate to share stories here, because I am always afraid of getting a reaction like yours. That is why I did not post, for example, that I sat next to Bill Clinton at the Big East Tourney and next to Joe Biden at one of the NCAA games in Pittsburgh. Maybe I should just continue not posting stuff like that.

1. I had completely forgotten about the "Kidd incident" — until you re-outed him in your original post. You pre-emptively initiated the discussion of his history of abuse. Why you're whining about the ensuing discussion is... interesting.

2. Forgive me if i'm 'mis-remembering,' but wasn't it you who similarly declared "we're all family" in defiant defense of another friend in Bernie Fine, at the onset of the storm? And, then went so far in protecting against the sullying of his reputation as to censor the forum against negative commentary by forcing all discussion elsewhere?

I'm not arguing against you, CTO, per se. I'm discussing the ridiculous concept - that because you've met someone and have spent a tiny amount of time with him, and because he's famous — that he somehow warrants a greater consideration toward 'redemption' than someone with whom you're not acquainted. That's the theme. And, somehow, you seem to expect that your (limited) acqaintanceship should be enough for the rest of us. You are, in essence, vouching for the guy. Which is ridiculous, but also brings about the real crux of the matter:

How do you define a person? And, obviously, the following is overblown, for the purpose of example... If you murder one person in your lifetime, in the middle of 5o years of charity work, who are you? If you stole one candybar in your life, but nothing else, who are you? The fact is, every one of us has a differently weighted linear scale on how to 'judge' people. In this situation, it's just interesting to me how Kidd seems to be slid much closer to the positive side of things, just because he's had pleasant dealings with CTO. On the other hand, some random schmo from Schenectady, with whom none of us have been associated, upon hearing of a similar history, most of us would likely not find such high regard for him. [Wow, that's a horrendous 'sentence.'] In this instance, Kidd has the opportunity to reclaim himself by virtue of living in the public eye, and having people around who think he's a special case because he's famous. If you're not on tv, people don't genuflect when they meet you. They don't tell prideful stories about you on internet forums. And, you remain a spousal abuser.

 

[bevosu]

Not to get sidetracked here but I have to say, I dont think women these days are like women of my parents generation and definately not like that of my grandparents generation. If im wrong someone correct me, but I am 29 and have been around girls like the type that go after NBA players, rap stars, dance in videos and act like "modeling" is posing half naked next to a Phantom while making it rain. Maybe its the type of girls ive been around, but even normal girls nowadays are acting like dudes. They sleep around, spit game, talk , start fights, love drama and are pretty hard to have respect for. I say this because of some of the actions ive heard J Kidd's wife at the time involved in. You have to be careful who you fall for these days...this has probably always been true but where it seemed guys were the ones acting like dogs, now women are too.

This obviously doesnt mean hitting a woman is right, but the landscape of how women conduct themselves is changing drastically.

I think there is validity to what you say, but I'd change your last sentence to 'how some women' conduct themselves.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

How do you define a person? And, obviously, the following is overblown, for the purpose of example... If you murder one person in your lifetime, in the middle of 5o years of charity work, who are you? If you stole one candybar in your life, but nothing else, who are you? The fact is, every one of us has a differently weighted linear scale on how to 'judge' people. In this situation, it's just interesting to me how Kidd seems to be slid much closer to the positive side of things, just because he's had pleasant dealings with CTO. On the other hand, some random schmo from Schenectady, with whom none of us have been associated, upon hearing of a similar history, most of us would likely not find such high regard for him. [Wow, that's a horrendous 'sentence.'] In this instance, Kidd has the opportunity to reclaim himself by virtue of living in the public eye, and having people around who think he's a special case because he's famous. If you're not on tv, people don't genuflect when they meet you. They don't tell prideful stories about you on internet forums. And, you remain a spousal abuser.

Seems to me that you are believing everything the ex-wife said about Kidd while discounting the fact there was only admitted instance that he was punished for. When you use the words "spousal abuser" it makes it seem habitual but the evidence actually shows only one instance. For which he pleaded guilty and paid his debt. He's remarried now and after a brief search of the interwebs, I can't find any evidence, rumor, or innuendo that this habit has continued.

As has been said numerous times in this thread already, only two people really know what happened during that marriage and neither of them are contributors here.

As for the fact that he may have been stepping out on his wife, well, she married an NBA player. Kind of expected, don't you agree? If she couldn't handle that, maybe she should have set her eyes on a person in a less prominent position.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Not to get sidetracked here but I have to say, I dont think women these days are like women of my parents generation and definately not like that of my grandparents generation. If im wrong someone correct me, but I am 29 and have been around girls like the type that go after NBA players, rap stars, dance in videos and act like "modeling" is posing half naked next to a Phantom while making it rain. Maybe its the type of girls ive been around, but even normal girls nowadays are acting like dudes. They sleep around, spit game, talk , start fights, love drama and are pretty hard to have respect for. I say this because of some of the actions ive heard J Kidd's wife at the time involved in. You have to be careful who you fall for these days...this has probably always been true but where it seemed guys were the ones acting like dogs, now women are too.

This obviously doesnt mean hitting a woman is right, but the landscape of how women conduct themselves is changing drastically.

This is so true. A good friend of mine confided in me that he was/is being emotionally and physically abused by his wife. Supposedly she is getting counseling, but it doesn't appear to be working. It took a lot for him to open up about it. He's embarrassed. He's a former college football player and a fairly reserved guy. I was floored when he finally told me what was going on. It sounded like the reverse of one of those Lifetime movies. The arguments, the swinging arms, throwing things at him...and then the sobbing 'I'm sorry, please forgive me' BS. He hopes the therapy works for the sake of their kids, but I can tell he's getting close to his breaking point. I could not fathom having to deal with something like that.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Women are taking a beating in here... no pun intended..

 

[Orangezoo]

1. I had completely forgotten about the "Kidd incident" — until you re-outed him in your original post. You pre-emptively initiated the discussion of his history of abuse. Why you're whining about the ensuing discussion is... interesting.

2. Forgive me if i'm 'mis-remembering,' but wasn't it you who similarly declared "we're all family" in defiant defense of another friend in Bernie Fine, at the onset of the storm? And, then went so far in protecting against the sullying of his reputation as to censor the forum against negative commentary by forcing all discussion elsewhere?

I'm not arguing against you, CTO, per se. I'm discussing the ridiculous concept - that because you've met someone and have spent a tiny amount of time with him, and because he's famous — that he somehow warrants a greater consideration toward 'redemption' than someone with whom you're not acquainted. That's the theme. And, somehow, you seem to expect that your (limited) acqaintanceship should be enough for the rest of us. You are, in essence, vouching for the guy. Which is ridiculous, but also brings about the real crux of the matter:

How do you define a person? And, obviously, the following is overblown, for the purpose of example... If you murder one person in your lifetime, in the middle of 5o years of charity work, who are you? If you stole one candybar in your life, but nothing else, who are you? The fact is, every one of us has a differently weighted linear scale on how to 'judge' people. In this situation, it's just interesting to me how Kidd seems to be slid much closer to the positive side of things, just because he's had pleasant dealings with CTO. On the other hand, some random schmo from Schenectady, with whom none of us have been associated, upon hearing of a similar history, most of us would likely not find such high regard for him. [Wow, that's a horrendous 'sentence.'] In this instance, Kidd has the opportunity to reclaim himself by virtue of living in the public eye, and having people around who think he's a special case because he's famous. If you're not on tv, people don't genuflect when they meet you. They don't tell prideful stories about you on internet forums. And, you remain a spousal abuser.

Zonk - I implore you to read my post back aways. I also do not understand how so many are reading CTO's comments as a reflection that Kidd's good deeds override abuse if the abuse was indeed what so many are inferring it was. As someone who knows first hand how much stain is involved its much more complex than you are trying to pin it. The effects it can have stretch much further within a family. Before I get off track - the important element here is that Kidd could be a family member of CTO's for all intensive purposes. To make an assumption of intent of the OP and come down upon it with a soapbox rant is just as silly as it is for society to throw severe abuse under the rug for a celebrity who has the opportunity to do good to overshadow the bad.

A lesson for all of you who "think" you understand how to digest this and pass a judgment on not only Kidd but posts about Kidd - it is so much more complex than it seems. Its not as simple as doing good in the public eye to overcome. It has a ripple effect within a community, let alone the public. It can rip apart a family - and to use a basketball reference, like a technical thats call as a reaction to a much worse foul, abuse can be a form of retaliation or even protection such as in my situation. We all come from different situations and backgrounds with different experiences. Its amazing how many posters think they can provide the holiday inn analysis of an issue beyond their comprehension. Try and tell a Combat war vet how they should be able to cope better with coming back from war; its disrespectful if you don't be mindful of the unknowns.

 

[cto]

CTO, just speaking for myself here, but if you had not mentioned Jason Kidd's prior legal troubles with domestic violence, they never would have even crossed my mind in a thread about him going to the Knicks.

I mentioned it because I didn't want someone else to mention it -- and tell me I was either dumb or dishonest for not mentioning It. But maybe I was dumb FOR mentioning it. We'll never know.

 

[CorduroyG]

wait, jason kidd beats his wife??? why would the knicks sign some wifebeater?????

 

[RichmondCuse]

So, I guess this whole thread seems kind of awkward now?

 

[PoppyHart]

So, I guess this whole thread seems kind of awkward now?

You mean the part about him wanting to mentor Lin?

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Bill Simmons ‏@sportsguy33
After winning over the Asian community with Jeremy Lin, the Knicks now expect to win over fat people with Ray Felton.

:rolling:

 

[Eric15]

Kidd was charged with DWI this morning after his SUV hit a telephone pole.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8168193/jason-kidd-new-york-knicks-arrested-charged-dwi

Fortunately, only minor injuries. And he didn't kill anyone else.

 

[Orangezoo]

So, I guess this whole thread seems kind of awkward now?

no not really.. its not a plus for kidd but doesn't do anything for the rest of the thread.