Knicks vs Heat

[realorange]

One of the Dolphins linebackers would have a tough time knocking LBJ on his back let alone a much smaller and slimmer NBA guard. While the Knicks were bad the refs were worse. It's not just this game but too many others this season for all teams. It's why I won't be watching anymore.

 

[longislandcuse]

One of the Dolphins linebackers would have a tough time knocking LBJ on his back let alone a much smaller and slimmer NBA guard. While the Knicks were bad the refs were worse. It's not just this game but too many others this season for all teams. It's why I won't be watching anymore.

Yea, its not just the Heat but imo the worse offenders of turning basketball into a b!tch sport are the Heat and Clippers.

 

[TinyManInside]

I wish the reffing was better. It would have been nice to see the Knicks lose by 18 instead of 30.

 

[longislandcuse]

I checked the ESPN/NBA General messageboard to see fan reaction to the game. Every single post was ripping the officiating. Lakers/Thunder/Celtics/Bulls/Sixers/Mavs etc etc etc fans were destroying the refs. There was a giant thread dedicated to the Knicks walking off the court in protest so I guess everybody hates the Heat wah wah wah, poor Heat, they are so misunderstood

 

[Knicks411]

I just think the Knicks played so poorly offensively in that game that they weren't going to win no matter what. Miami did get put on the line a ton in that second quarter, but the Knicks weren't scoring on the other end, and I don't remember a whole lot of calls they didn't get on their drives; mainly because they couldn't even get into their offense to set up drives. The officials did seemingly take over the game a bit in the second quarter, but that does happen from time to time. (Would not surprise me to see the Knicks get some favorable whistles when they come back home, for example. It sucks to talk about games like that but unfortunately it's kind of a fact).

Most NBA fans hate the Heat, so they are always going to go against them, so I wouldn't take much from the message boards like that. (Which isn't to say that the refs were good, they weren't, but it is also message board mentality to pile on like that.)

Miami shot 33 FT to 11 for the Knicks yesterday; I bet the margin is much closer on Monday. And Miami will still probably win. Miami obviously isn't 33 points better than the Knicks, but they are better. Watching Orlando beat Indy yesterday; if the Knicks just could've gotten that 6 seed...

And let's not forget the refs have always made some pretty terrible calls, and the Knicks often get them in their favor. Hubert Davis from 1994; Larry Johnson from 99. (Unfortunately they haven't even won a playoff game since 2001 so there aren't any since about 2000).

I'm bringing this from the Shumpert thread

Also to be noted is that Knick beat writers are reporting Lin could come back against the Heat if the Knicks can win a game of two and make it a series.

Who did you see say that? Just curious.

 

[longislandcuse]

I just think the Knicks played so poorly offensively in that game that they weren't going to win no matter what. Miami did get put on the line a ton in that second quarter, but the Knicks weren't scoring on the other end, and I don't remember a whole lot of calls they didn't get on their drives; mainly because they couldn't even get into their offense to set up drives. The officials did seemingly take over the game a bit in the second quarter, but that does happen from time to time. (Would not surprise me to see the Knicks get some favorable whistles when they come back home, for example. It sucks to talk about games like that but unfortunately it's kind of a fact).

Most NBA fans hate the Heat, so they are always going to go against them, so I wouldn't take much from the message boards like that. (Which isn't to say that the refs were good, they weren't, but it is also message board mentality to pile on like that.)

Miami shot 33 FT to 11 for the Knicks yesterday; I bet the margin is much closer on Monday. And Miami will still probably win. Miami obviously isn't 33 points better than the Knicks, but they are better. Watching Orlando beat Indy yesterday; if the Knicks just could've gotten that 6 seed...

And let's not forget the refs have always made some pretty terrible calls, and the Knicks often get them in their favor. Hubert Davis from 1994; Larry Johnson from 99. (Unfortunately they haven't even won a playoff game since 2001 so there aren't any since about 2000).

I'm bringing this from the Shumpert thread



Who did you see say that? Just curious.

NY Post today. MIAMI — Linsanity may hit the first round.
Jeremy Lin, out nearly a month following left knee surgery, may return against the Heat after all, depending on how far the Knicks can extend the opening-round series after yesterday’s devastating 100-67 Game 1 loss.
With Iman Shumpert out six to eight months after tearing his left ACL and meniscus yesterday and Baron Davis’ back ailing, Lin’s rehab schedule is being stepped up, though there are no guarantees.
Lin went through intense 1-on-1 drills filled with cutting against assistant coach Kenny Atkinson before the game. The Knicks are now somewhat hopeful — if Lin feels well in the next few days — the second-year point-guard sensation could return if the first-round series is extended. That would beat the six-week timetable from his arthroscopic surgery to repair a torn meniscus.

Knicks411, I wish I could agree with you that we will get calls at home, but we wont...just look at the last time we played the Heat at home a few weeks ago. The Heat know how to manipulate the refs and the refs fall for it. The Knicks also got timid when everytime they drove to the basket it was a charge and everytime Miami drove to the basket and got looked at, it was a foul.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah, saw the Beck article afterwards. That's promising, not sure we'll get late into the series, but still.

For the season, Miami and the Knicks shot essentially the same amount of FT; they were something like 7th and 8th on the season. So it isn't like Miami spent the whole year at the FT line or something. In the last game at MSG, the Knicks shot 23 FT and Miami shot 21. (I'll grant you FT is just one thing to look at, but from the box, it's the easiest. Also, funny from that game, there were 44 FT taken between the two teams; Melo, Lebron, and Wade took 32 of them).

Like I said, I think it sucks that we basically have to look at a lot of playoff series in this way; that the home team is going to get a favorable whistle, but that pretty much seems to be the case. I doubt we'll see another game this series where one team triples the other up at the line. And also, most importantly, Miami is just better than the Knicks. It sucks, but it's true. (And that kinda makes me depressed as a Knicks fan, between Miami and Chicago, even if we get really good, we still may end up not being able to beat those teams.

 

[Ward]

The refs were awful in the second quarter. Having said that with Chandler obviously suffering from the flu and not even close to 100 percent, Carmelo having an off shooting night, and LeBron locked in like that shooting I think it was 10/14 or 11/14 from the field, the Knicks weren't going to win that game regardless. A lot of those offensive fouls were legit I thought. They were in position and that's the call, even though it is very annoying. It's funny because when Fab drew charges I loved it, and when a team I'm rooting for gets called for it it drives me nuts. LeBron flopped twice pretty noticeably, the corner and the Chandler pick. The Chandler pick was a foul, he lunged his forearms into the back of LeBrons head, LeBrons flop was over the top and drew the flagrant which was unnecessary. The foul shot difference is somewhat due to the Heat having Wade and LeBron who attack the rim, and the Knicks who shoot tons of threes and mid range jumpers. Carmelos technical was terrible.

Overall, the officiating was real bad for that last stretch of the second quarter. Paulie is right it did completely change the outlook of the game, but the Knicks weren't winning that game anyways.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think Carmelo settles for jumpers too much these days. Wish he would get to the rim more.

 

[KingOtis]

I think it can both be true that the refs were really bad, especially in the last 6 min of the second half or so...

That's when the Heat went on their run. Not a coincidence.

 

[longislandcuse]

Yesterday was just a mess. Melo was horrible, Amare was horrible and Chandler had to get fluids after the game and according to reports could barely see straight while on the floor. Meanwhile the Heat played very well and the officiating was absurd. Hope NYK can "shock the world" (NN) Monday night and even the series. If they do somehow get back in this thing it does sound more and more like Lin will give it a go.

I too am a litte demoralized Knicks411, but I do think that given a full year with the SL of Lin/Shump/Melo/Amare/Chandler and whatever bench we have next year we will be the 2nd best team in the East. Yes, I believe we're going to be better than the Bulls. However, the Heat when not in the Finals are next level and noone can match them apparantly. Combine that with the fact that they have mastered the art of "B!tch Basketball" and they are nearly unbeatable.

 

[longislandcuse]

That's when the Heat went on their run. Not a coincidence.

Exactly, after 30-29 it became an absolute joke. No coincidence that it went from a 1 point game back and forth through 18 min to a 20+ lead at halftime. The Knicks visibly got rattled by the officiating. Tyson flagrant, Melo technical and Woodson technicals. Players moping around looking bewildered at every call. It was bad and we dont have the mentality to deal with that, not too many teams do.

 

[Knicks411]

Yesterday was just a mess. Melo was horrible, Amare was horrible and Chandler had to get fluids after the game and according to reports could barely see straight while on the floor. Meanwhile the Heat played very well and the officiating was absurd. Hope NYK can "shock the world" (NN) Monday night and even the series. If they do somehow get back in this thing it does sound more and more like Lin will give it a go.

I too am a litte demoralized Knicks411, but I do think that given a full year with the SL of Lin/Shump/Melo/Amare/Chandler and whatever bench we have next year we will be the 2nd best team in the East. Yes, I believe we're going blyto be better than the Bulls. However, the Heat when not in the Finals are next level and noone can match them apparantly. Combine that with the fact that they have mastered the art of "B!tch Basketball" and they are nearly unbeatable.

Don't forget we're not going to have a full season of Shump though. (Though Chicago won't have the full season with Rose either, so it'll more than even out if we're comparing ourselves to Chicago).

Without Rose, we're probably better than Chicago (though remember they smacked us around without him and they did very well without him this year) but we are going to need to figure out the frontcourt and the spacing when Lin comes back. Also will need to add some shooting on the bench, as I assume Novak and JR are gone. But I am expecting the Knicks to be a very good team next year.

 

[KingOtis]

Exactly, after 30-29 it became an absolute joke. No coincidence that it went from a 1 point game back and forth through 18 min to a 20+ lead at halftime. The Knicks visibly got rattled by the officiating. Tyson flagrant, Melo technical and Woodson technicals. Players moping around looking bewildered at every call. It was bad and we dont have the mentality to deal with that, not too many teams do.

Exactly. The Knicks kept it close in spite of their poor shooting, then the refs took over.

If it's still a close game at the half, the Knicks have an opportunity in the second half to improve their shooting and steal the game.

 

[KingOtis]

The Knicks are David Stern's team. He will hand them a title when the time is right, most likely when Anthony and Lin are both healthy.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Such a losers mentality to focus on what...maybe 3 questionable calls. The Knicks were out of control..

Let's focus on what we can control. Getting Melo the ball in better spots and how the hell to stop Lebron. Melo can't stick him.

 

[Ward]

Exactly. The Knicks kept it close in spite of their poor shooting, then the refs took over.

If it's still a close game at the half, the Knicks have an opportunity in the second half to improve their shooting and steal the game.

I see your point and the poor calls definitely helped give the Heat the big lead. But it's not like this was a 15 point game, the Heat won by 33 and were up by as many as 40 at some points. The Knicks just weren't going to win that game regardless. The Heat went on a 32-4 run over the course of two halves, officials can't be held accountable for a 28 point scoring differential.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

People who are trying to console themselves with conspiracy theories and whining about poor reffing are in denial (let alone, sounding like 17-year-0ld kids calling a sports radio show). Miami delivered an ass-whoopin', pure and simple. The Knicks get another shot Monday night.

 

[KingOtis]

I see your point and the poor calls definitely helped give the Heat the big lead. But it's not like this was a 15 point game, the Heat won by 33 and were up by as many as 40 at some points. The Knicks just weren't going to win that game regardless. The Heat went on a 32-4 run over the course of two halves, officials can't be held accountable for a 28 point scoring differential.

It was 30-29 and then the Heat went on a 13-0 run. Seven of the first ten points came from the free throw line. The Heat had ten free throw attempts in that span and the Knicks had zero. Davis, Stoudemire and Chandler were all called for offensive fouls and all picked up their third fouls. Davis and Stoudemire picked up two fouls a piece during that stretch. The Heat were called for three fouls total, with the last two coming on back-to-back plays when it was already 40-29 (obvious make-up calls).

Anthony finally ended the run with his first made field goal, the Heat shot and made two more free throws, and then Chandler was called for the flagrant (resulting in five more points). That was the ballgame.

So you had about a five-minute stretch where the Heat turned a 30-29 game into a 50-31 game, with every point manufactured by the refs except one three-pointer by Battier and another one by Miller (both of which came after offensive foul calls on the Knicks).

And for those who are wondering, the Knicks had eight turnovers during the run. Four of them were offensive fouls. One was a traveling (yes, traveling) call on Stoudemire. The other three were steals (translating to four points, all free throws).

 

[KingOtis]

People who are trying to console themselves with conspiracy theories and whining about poor reffing are in denial (let alone, sounding like 17-year-0ld kids calling a sports radio show). Miami delivered an ass-whoopin', pure and simple. The Knicks get another shot Monday night.

You're the one in denial and your choice of video clip proves your ignorance.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

It was 30-29 and then the Heat went on a 13-0 run. Seven of the first ten points came from the free throw line. The Heat had ten free throw attempts in that span and the Knicks had zero. Davis, Stoudemire and Chandler were all called for offensive fouls and all picked up their third fouls. Davis and Stoudemire picked up two fouls a piece during that stretch. The Heat were called for three fouls total, with the last two coming on back-to-back plays when it was already 40-29 (obvious make-up calls).

Anthony finally ended the run with his first made field goal, the Heat shot and made two more free throws, and then Chandler was called for the flagrant (resulting in five more points). That was the ballgame.

So you had about a five-minute stretch where the Heat turned a 30-29 game into a 50-31 game, with every point manufactured by the refs except one three-pointer by Battier and another one by Miller (both of which came after offensive foul calls on the Knicks).

And for those who are wondering, the Knicks had eight turnovers during the run. Four of them were offensive fouls. One was a traveling (yes, traveling) call on Stoudemire. The other three were steals (translating to four points, all free throws).

KO - what exactly is your point? I don't understand what you are arguing. 3 or 4 bad calls cost NY the game?

 

[Fireball Jr.]

KO - what exactly is your point? I don't understand what you are arguing. 3 or 4 bad calls cost NY the game?

That, and that games are fixed.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

You're the one in denial and your choice of video clip proves your ignorance.

Ignorant? Deduct debate points for taking the low road.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I watched the first 3 quarters again this morning when I was up with the chickens... I only saw 3 fouls that I really said, "they could have swallowed the whistle there". The others seemed pretty legit. The Knicks were pushing and trying to be "tough", but it was not under control. They were flailing and putting their arms out. You are going to get called for those every time. JR Smith and Chandler completely lost their composure.

Lebron might have sold a couple calls... doesn't every player do that? I see it every night watching pro hoops. Its part of the game today. Ever watch Kobe or D Rose go to the hole? You'd think they get whip lash everytime they miss a shot... because they try to get a whistle.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Don't try to argue with KO. It won't work. Where is 44cuse at

Anyway, sure the Heat got a lot more calls. But sometimes in basketball games there is this idea called aggressivenes...believe it or not the Heat took it to the rack hard for most of the game instead of driving wildly to the hoop like Amare seemed to do every play.