Class of 2016 - PG Kobi Simmons (GA) Offered by Syracuse | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2016 PG Kobi Simmons (GA) Offered by Syracuse

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Holy sheesters! Dang gotta be the first in home for Simmons. Has he even done any official visits yet? This does seem to be how we get our higher rated recruits in the recent history. Sudden interest by both parties, official offer very quickly and then usually an official visit followed by verbal. This time an inhome though.
Kobi has been on several visits and in-homes already, so this isn't anything new for him and his family. If we can set an official visit soon then things could get interesting in our favor.
 
Kobi has been on several visits and in-homes already, so this isn't anything new for him and his family. If we can set an official visit soon then things could get interesting in our favor.

Nice! Appreciate the info. Never followed him much as I figured he was a long shot as far as us getting involved.

Do you think there is any chance that this becomes a whomever schedules the first SU visit grabs the guard spot for 2016?
 
I don't agree. Kobi is rated 5 by Espn, 8 by Scout and 13 by Rivals. These services make mistakes but not usually with 5 star guards. Kentucky already gave him an offer for next year and they have a good idea what's going on. A drop off in my mind is Tyler Ennis to Kaleb Joseph, not any of these three recruits. I'd take any of them in a heartbeat. I also think Kobi would be our highest rated recruit since 'Melo if he came here. JMO.
My personal feeling is that Cal offers the highest rated players period. He wants the highest ranked recruiting class every year. I don't think he does a ton of evaluating.
 
Nice! Appreciate the info. Never followed him much as I figured he was a long shot as far as us getting involved.

Do you think there is any chance that this becomes a whomever schedules the first SU visit grabs the guard spot for 2016?
I think if Battle visits as planned then we can close the deal. Simmons is getting a lot of attention now, so I'm not sure if they'll pull the trigger quick with UK and other big time programs wanting visits as well. I still think we should offer Murray and have whoever really wants to come commit first and solidify their spot to become our next first round pick at guard.:)
 
Jimmy to do a in-home visit tonight with Simmons according to various reports. Now that's serious business. Gary and Tyus Battle are now put on notice.
Wonder if the late interest in Simmons and Murray is because we are getting bad vibes from Battle and the staff has determined we have to get a quality PG.
 
Wonder if the late interest in Simmons and Murray is because we are getting bad vibes from Battle and the staff has determined we have to get a quality PG.
You can only go all in on one player for so long before deciding to say screw it and go find other options. If the Battle's really want SU, then they can call JB at any moment and we can stop offering a bunch of PG's like IU and UConn.
 
You can only go all in on one player for so long before deciding to say screw it and go find other options. If the Battle's really want SU, then they can call JB at any moment and we can stop offering a bunch of PG's like IU and UConn.

Can't agree with this more. Battle knows SU loves him an wants him 1st. He's known for 2 years if he wants to come to SU all he has to do is say it.
 
You can only go all in on one player for so long before deciding to say screw it and go find other options. If the Battle's really want SU, then they can call JB at any moment and we can stop offering a bunch of PG's like IU and UConn.

And still no Murray offer?
 
So many point guard options now, and still no idea which one we'll land. But at least we have options: http://.com/jim-boeheim-keeping-his-point-guard-options-open/

Honestly, who is better? Simmons, or Battle? I'm kind of leaning toward wanting Simmons just because holy hell, this Battle recruitment is on the verge of circus territory.
 
Have these highly publicized recruiting battles ever historically been in our favor? If my memory serves correctly, more times than not we come up the bridesmaid...going back to Sam Perkins, Kenny Anderson, King Rice, Stephon Marbury, Jamaal Mashburn, etc. etc. I realize Waiters and MCW were first rounders, but I don't recall those, Flynn's or Ennis' being (recruitment) so ballyhooed.
 
Have these highly publicized recruiting battles ever historically been in our favor? If my memory serves correctly, more times than not we come up the bridesmaid...going back to Sam Perkins, Kenny Anderson, King Rice, Stephon Marbury, Jamaal Mashburn, etc. etc. I realize Waiters and MCW were first rounders, but I don't recall those, Flynn's or Ennis' being (recruitment) so ballyhooed.

Stop it. Jesus.

Maybe its because we normally get who we want. Maybe its because JB knows the difference between ranked player number 15 and 100 is not that great. We have the #6 ranked class in the country coming in, in what may be one of the most difficult times to recruit anyways let alone with the cloud on the program. And that's without Bryant. Can we just stop with the we lose battles and these coaches don't recruit well comments. Its so frustrating.

PS Sorry for ranting directly at you just in general.
 
Stop it. Jesus.

Maybe its because we normally get who we want. Maybe its because JB knows the difference between ranked player number 15 and 100 is not that great. We have the #6 ranked class in the country coming in, in what may be one of the most difficult times to recruit anyways let alone with the cloud on the program. And that's without Bryant. Can we just stop with the we lose battles and these coaches don't recruit well comments. Its so frustrating.

PS Sorry for ranting directly at you just in general.


He's actually asking a fair question. He isn't saying we don't get good quality and even elite recruits. He is saying when we go down to the wire on an Elite guy, where there is a lot of hoopla and attention paid to the recruitment, we often don't come up a winner.

Couple of comments -
-Recruiting is kind of like hitting in baseball. No one hits .1000 and you don't need to, to be very successful.
-I wouldn't say "we normally get who we want". That is crazy talk. We get very good recruits, but we make more offers than get accepted and there are plenty of guys we don't offer because we know we have no chance at them. I bet if you asked Boeheim each year to give you the top five guys he wants from that year's sophomore H.S. class and then you tracked our rate of success it would be surprisingly low. Not surprisingly low compared to others but surprisingly low compared to a 100% success rate.
-As fans we probably remember the losses more than the victories. They sting and it ends our association with a player. If we win the recruiting battle, the player eventually comes to school and we associate those guys with their exploits on the court rather than the recruiting battle that led to them coming. Hence we remember Noel or Harris rejecting us, more than we remember Fab or DCII committing.
-Many of our highly ranked guys have been early commits (Dion, MCW, Richardson, McCullough come to mind), there isn't a battle, they commit before it comes to that and before the public at large even really knows who these guys are.
-The longer the recruitment goes on the more likely it is to be one that gets public attention. People aren't paying as close attention when there is a huge field to choose from and before the All Star teams are announced, as the field starts to narrow and McD's teams are announced observers get more focused and more casual observers start to pay attention.

But, I can think of a lot more heated recruiting battles that we did not win than that we did. The losses of Sam Perkins, King Rice, Kenny Anderson, Stephon Marbury, Nerlens Noel, Tobias Harris, Donyell Marshall, Jalen Rose, Julius Hodge and others are far more memorable than the high profile wins that I can recall DC II, Fab, Paul Harris; with the notable exceptions of Pearl and Owens.
 
Have these highly publicized recruiting battles ever historically been in our favor? If my memory serves correctly, more times than not we come up the bridesmaid...going back to Sam Perkins, Kenny Anderson, King Rice, Stephon Marbury, Jamaal Mashburn, etc. etc. I realize Waiters and MCW were first rounders, but I don't recall those, Flynn's or Ennis' being (recruitment) so ballyhooed.


Uh... yeah. Remember Pearl? Derrick Coleman? Billy Owens--we beat out Carolina. John Wallace--we beat out Kansas. Just for starters.

When you recruit top prospects, you aren't going to land them all. And some of them were significant losses. Sam Perkins would have been a program changer. Kenny Anderson decided to go el$ewhere due to non-basketball related con$iderations, and not having him during the 1989-1990 season might have cost us a final four run. King Rice was a huge SU fan and likely would have come here, but didn't want to sit behind Sherman Douglas for two years--the timing was just bad [I've actually had that personal conversation with him].

The others you list--meh. I'm glad we didn't land Stephon Marbury. If we had, we wouldn't have gone to the NCAA championship game like we did with Z at the helm.
 
All in all... and this is a little OT: Recruiting is such a coin flip. Thousands and thousands of names with hundreds of factors. Just look at the Curry family. Dell goes to VT... Steph wasn't a highly touted recruit (then tore up the NCAA ranks + tournament) and now is an MVP favorite while Seth was a higher touted recruit, performed at a high level at Duke, but now bounces around in D-League and NBA 10 day contracts. It's a crapshoot and it will forever be a crapshoot. You just hope you hit more often then you miss
 
He's actually asking a fair question. He isn't saying we don't get good quality and even elite recruits. He is saying when we go down to the wire on an Elite guy, where there is a lot of hoopla and attention paid to the recruitment, we often don't come up a winner.

Couple of comments -
-Recruiting is kind of like hitting in baseball. No one hits .1000 and you don't need to, to be very successful.
-I wouldn't say "we normally get who we want". That is crazy talk. We get very good recruits, but we make more offers than get accepted and there are plenty of guys we don't offer because we know we have no chance at them. I bet if you asked Boeheim each year to give you the top five guys he wants from that year's sophomore H.S. class and then you tracked our rate of success it would be surprisingly low. Not surprisingly low compared to others but surprisingly low compared to a 100% success rate.
-As fans we probably remember the losses more than the victories. They sting and it ends our association with a player. If we win the recruiting battle, the player eventually comes to school and we associate those guys with their exploits on the court rather than the recruiting battle that led to them coming. Hence we remember Noel or Harris rejecting us, more than we remember Fab or DCII committing.
-Many of our highly ranked guys have been early commits (Dion, MCW, Richardson, McCullough come to mind), there isn't a battle, they commit before it comes to that and before the public at large even really knows who these guys are.
-The longer the recruitment goes on the more likely it is to be one that gets public attention. People aren't paying as close attention when there is a huge field to choose from and before the All Star teams are announced, as the field starts to narrow and McD's teams are announced observers get more focused and more casual observers start to pay attention.

But, I can think of a lot more heated recruiting battles that we did not win than that we did. The losses of Sam Perkins, King Rice, Kenny Anderson, Stephon Marbury, Nerlens Noel, Tobias Harris, Donyell Marshall, Jalen Rose, Julius Hodge and others are far more memorable than the high profile wins that I can recall DC II, Fab, Paul Harris; with the notable exceptions of Pearl and Owens.

Exactly...that's all I was attempting to elude...no other spin or ill-intention.
 
Uh... yeah. Remember Pearl? Derrick Coleman? Billy Owens--we beat out Carolina. John Wallace--we beat out Kansas. Just for starters.

When you recruit top prospects, you aren't going to land them all. And some of them were significant losses. Sam Perkins would have been a program changer. Kenny Anderson decided to go el$ewhere due to non-basketball related con$iderations, and not having him during the 1989-1990 season might have cost us a final four run. King Rice was a huge SU fan and likely would have come here, but didn't want to sit behind Sherman Douglas for two years--the timing was just bad [I've actually had that personal conversation with him].

The others you list--meh. I'm glad we didn't land Stephon Marbury. If we had, we wouldn't have gone to the NCAA championship game like we did with Z at the helm.

Yes, I do recall. Pearl was certainly the program changer for us as I remember Al McGuire and Pearl's announcement quite vividly. Shortly thereafter, we were on our way to being a national program. However, I was much younger back then and generally didn't pay too much attention to the recruitment hoopla, usually just reading who committed/signed with SU in the Post or Herald. Of course back then there also wasn't any internet, social media, etc.

I appreciate the history lesson in why recruits may pick and choose other programs, although, I've been around the block a time or two myself... :)
 
Yes, I do recall. Pearl was certainly the program changer for us as I remember Al McGuire and Pearl's announcement quite vividly. Shortly thereafter, we were on our way to being a national program. However, I was much younger back then and generally didn't pay too much attention to the recruitment hoopla, usually just reading who committed/signed with SU in the Post or Herald. Of course back then there also wasn't any internet, social media, etc.

I appreciate the history lesson in why recruits may pick and choose other programs, although, I've been around the block a time or two myself... :)

I didn't intend for my previous note to come across as condescending--sorry!

I think the bottom line is: we don't generally chase the type of recruits who are true top of the class headliner types very often. We have in the past, and we've done a pretty good job landing some of those guys [DC, Pearl, Wallace, Owens, etc.]. We've made our bread and butter around highy rated guys who aren't necessarily top 10 caliber recruits, but still highly rated guys who are great system fits [Anthony [at least initially], Autry, Thompson, MCW, Waiters, Ennis, Pace, Joseph, Hart, etc.], blending them with slighly under-recruited guys who are much better than their rating [Grant, Triche, CJ, Rick], and sprinkling in some darkhorse recruits who have the tools to thrive in our system and are MUCH better than what the prognosticators project [Warrick, Moten, Wes, Southerland, Rautins, Douglas].

Every once in awhile, we swing for the fences and go after a stud. But that isn't our wheelhouse. We are more apt to go for a team of 8-10 high quality players and one stud-caliber recruit, then we are to emulate UK, Duke, or UNC and look to stockpile the bench with McD's top 10 caliber recruits.

I know, I know--there will be some who say that this formula is changing, and point to the recent spate of early entrants in recent years. I do think our recruiting has improved of late; the issue [my opinion only] is that while we're getting guys who are good enough to jump to the NBA early, they aren't trancendent talents who can get us to the next level as function of their athletic skill. Anthony was that caliber of player. So was Owens. So was Wallace.

Conversely, McCullough was not. Nor was Ennis [although he was pretty darn good] or Fab, etc. We're getting highly rated guys--some of whom are garnering McD's all american accolades--but they are on the lower end of that scale, and not capable of putting the team on their backs and getting us to the next level the way that the players from the previous paragraph could and did.

We've also had some back luck. This year's team would have been exponentially better [again, my opinion only] if Ennis had returned to quarterback, and Joseph had been his apprecentice intstead of starting. Imagine if Grant hadn't jumped early. Or if McCullough didn't jump early this year, and came back for year 2. We're not getting the value you'd expect from some of these high major recruits we're landing in terms of their impact on the program--and I readily grant that this is frustrating.

That said, prior to last year, we are coming off an amazing five year run. So maybe we're just spoiled.
 
I know, I know--there will be some who say that this formula is changing, and point to the recent spate of early entrants in recent years. I do think our recruiting has improved of late; the issue [my opinion only] is that while we're getting guys who are good enough to jump to the NBA early, they aren't trancendent talents who can get us to the next level as function of their athletic skill. Anthony was that caliber of player. So was Owens. So was Wallace.

Conversely, McCullough was not. Nor was Ennis [although he was pretty darn good] or Fab, etc. We're getting highly rated guys--some of whom are garnering McD's all american accolades--but they are on the lower end of that scale, and not capable of putting the team on their backs and getting us to the next level the way that the players from the previous paragraph could and did.

I don't know if I agree with you that the guys we are getting aren't capable of putting a team on their back. You are right that Anthony was clearly head and shoulders above all others, as he was that kind of player as a frosh. Owens, Wallace and Coleman were here 3 and 4 years. If McCullough, Ennis, Fab, MCW, Dion, Greene, Grant played four years for us we may have a whole different opinion of them as we only scratched the surface of what they were capable of in their short stints on the Hill.
 
I don't know if I agree with you that the guys we are getting aren't capable of putting a team on their back. You are right that Anthony was clearly head and shoulders above all others, as he was that kind of player as a frosh. Owens, Wallace and Coleman were here 3 and 4 years. If McCullough, Ennis, Fab, MCW, Dion, Greene, Grant played four years for us we may have a whole different opinion of them as we only scratched the surface of what they were capable of in their short stints on the Hill.

There have been three freshman the past 15 years that were transcendant. Melo, Durant and Anthony Davis. Two won the National Title, and the other played for a terrible coach. The rest of these teams that win have incredible balance, and aren't necessarily lead by a transcendant superstar.
 
I don't know if I agree with you that the guys we are getting aren't capable of putting a team on their back. You are right that Anthony was clearly head and shoulders above all others, as he was that kind of player as a frosh. Owens, Wallace and Coleman were here 3 and 4 years. If McCullough, Ennis, Fab, MCW, Dion, Greene, Grant played four years for us we may have a whole different opinion of them as we only scratched the surface of what they were capable of in their short stints on the Hill.

I think you're actually making the same point I am. The problem is, we AREN'T getting those players to stay for 3-4 years. We're getting them to stay for 1-2 years, during which time they aren't ready [or capable] of carrying the team. And then they bail without SU basketball truly benefitting from their potential capabilities.

So I'd rather get higher rated, truly elite players who CAN get us to the promised land [or carry us closer to it, anyway] before they turn pro -- or we need to find a way to get the just slightly below elite players we're landing to stay a bit longer.

MCW got us to the final four, but it's also important to note that the defense peaked, Triche started playing his best ball in the postseason, we started getting better bench contributions from Keita in the postseason, etc. So it wasn't all just MCW [although he was sensational for us down the stretch that year, up to the Michigan game]. Dion might have been that good, but on that 2012 team he was a luxurious cog in a tremendously deep and athletic team.

Perhaps Greene, Grant, McCullough, and Ennis could have done that if they stayed longer and matured physically, but they didn't. That was the point of my post above. Great prospects with lots of potential, which is why they got drafted. But they sure didn't maximize their capabilities here, and they left without making huge impacts [from most to least:


Ennis


Grant




Greene











McCullough
 
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