LeBron vs Bird at age 30

[JarHeadJim]

 

[Frozen]

LeBron > Bird.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lebron's numbers probably go down more this year as they try to manage his minutes and get Love more involved... He's also logged a ton of minutes in his career. I can see the decline starting slowly as he's had multiple back issues the past calendar year.

 

[Frozen]

How many Hall of Famers did Bird play with? How many does LBJ play with?

 

[bozophobe]

How many Hall of Famers did Bird play with? How many does LBJ play with?

Over the course of complete careers, the comparison doesn't or won't seem as uneven as you're suggesting. Both were/are freequently grouped in with a "Big 3" triad.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

How many Hall of Famers did Bird play with? How many does LBJ play with?

Wade, Love & Irvin. Bosh will be boarderline.
Bird also had a bad back.
Both are great. LBJ superior athlete.
Harder to get to the basket in Bird's era, and if you did, you were on your butt.
Also, hand checking allowed and zone not allowed in Bird's era.
Bird would kill today's defenses.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Bird was also a notoriously great trash talker.

 

[Bayside44]

Wade, Love & Irvin. Bosh will be boarderline.
Bird also had a bad back.
Both are great. LBJ superior athlete.
Harder to get to the basket in Bird's era, and if you did, you were on your butt.
Also, hand checking allowed and zone not allowed in Bird's era.
Bird would kill today's defenses.

Don't forget Ray Allen who stole a title for LBJ.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Bird had johnson, mchale, parish.... pretty similar supporting cast's I'd say. You never win with just a Ewing.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Both are just unbelievable. Glad to see Larry Legend's numbers hanging in there and I agree Bird would just destroy defenses today. That NBA was full contact back then.

Bird was such a badass.

 

[Cusefan0307]

FWIW it's going to be difficult for Lebron to win another title IMO. He's on a team that can't stay healthy and will have to face an unbelievably loaded team out of the west pretty much any year in the near future. (GSW, SAS, OKC, Houston, LAC)

 

[Knicks411]

One guy was also an all world defender. But i mean Larry Bird is freaking incredible.

FWIW it's going to be difficult for Lebron to win another title IMO. He's on a team that can't stay healthy and will have to face an unbelievably loaded team out of the west pretty much any year in the near future. (GSW, SAS, OKC, Houston, LAC)

Yeah but at least right now he basically has a cakewalk into the finals. I'd say the Cavs have the best chance of any team to win the title, though they probably aren't the best team.

 

[Ghost]

Bird had johnson, mchale, parish... pretty similar supporting cast's I'd say. You never win with just a Ewing.

Man, DJ morphed from very slightly underrated to where he's now legendarily overrated.

 

[OrangeDW]

How many Hall of Famers did Bird play with? How many does LBJ play with?

Two, both times that he won a title.

Kyrie and Love are way too young to call it. But they are elite talents. He's had plenty of help on his roster every year since 2010.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Man, DJ morphed from very slightly underrated to where he's now legendarily overrated.

14 points and 5 assists per game for his career and made the hall of fame. Probably not too many players with those numbers in springfield.

 

[Ghost]

Wade, Love & Irvin. Bosh will be boarderline.
Bird also had a bad back.
Both are great. LBJ superior athlete.
Harder to get to the basket in Bird's era, and if you did, you were on your butt.
Also, hand checking allowed and zone not allowed in Bird's era.
Bird would kill today's defenses.

60% of the Heat's starting lineup was made up of 50% of the top 6 in minutes on the 2008 US Olympic squad. Not too shabby.

 

[Knicks411]

I think Bosh is going to sail into the HOF unless he completely falls off a cliff.

 

[MikeSU02]

I love Larry Bird, but Bird is not better than Bron.

Besides on ball defense, ball handling, athleticism, etc, Bron has already played more regular season games than Bird did.

Also, Bird's career PER is 23.5 with a high of 26.5. Bron's career PER is 27.7 with a high of 31.7 (and a total of 8 seasons with a PER higher than Bird's career best of 26.5).

I can't believe I even have to write this.

 

[MikeSU02]

I think Bosh is going to sail into the HOF unless he completely falls off a cliff.

10x all star. He's in.

 

[Knicks411]

10x all star. He's in.

Right. Plus 2 time champ. Gold medal isn't a huge deal but doesn't hurt.

I love Larry Bird, but Bird is not better than Bron.

Besides on ball defense, ball handling, athleticism, etc, Bron has already played more regular season games than Bird did.

Also, Bird's career PER is 23.5 with a high of 26.5. Bron's career PER is 27.7 with a high of 31.7 (and a total of 8 seasons with a PER higher than Bird's career best of 26.5).

I can't believe I even have to write this.

This is the incredible stat.

Another thing I'll throw out there is the game was a lot faster paced back in Bird's day, allowing you to put up more numbers. I guess Bird's best raw stat year was 88, where he put up 30-9-6 (which btw is freaking incredible, I'm not knocking the guy). The Celtics that year averaged 98 possessions per game. Lebron's best per game year was probably 2008, 30-8-7, Cavs averaged 90 possessions per game. Nearly 8 or 9% more possessions per game, not insignificant.

I mean we're also talking about 2 of the 7 or 8 best basketball players of all time? Lebron may not be the best player of all time, that's probably going to be MJ, but I really don't think we've seen any player truly like him ever. Let me know when Larry Bird checks Tony Parker in game 7 of the NBA finals.

 

[tom_brady1]

View attachment 53334

How can this even be a discussion, lebron may be more athletic than bird, but bird is mentally stronger than lebron, not to mention better shooter, about even passer, little bit better rebounder (guy got 9 a game with mchale and parish). but let me know when lebron goes against magic johnson, kareem, james worthy and the 80's lakers lol i think that team is a tiny bit tougher than the older spurs

 

[Alsacs]

I love the Legend he was a bad man but Lebron is a better player. Lebron is an athletic Magic Johnson in Karl Malone's body.
I would Bird in the 4th Q over Lebron but Lebron is a better player.
Lebron won with Wade and Bosh and Bird won with McHale, Parish, and Dennis Johnson.
In the 80's teams were deeper and it was better basketball to watch.
Lebron is just so much better than the players he plays.
Lebron will end his career behind only Jordan/Russell/Kareem IMO. I say this and have never rooted for Lebron James in any games except when he has had USA on the front of his jersey.

 

[ssbriefcase]

How many Hall of Famers did Bird play with? How many does LBJ play with?

So numbers wise, it would've been harder for Bird to get those #'s than LBJ.

 

[Knicks411]

How can this even be a discussion, lebron may be more athletic than bird, but bird is mentally stronger than lebron, not to mention better shooter, about even passer, little bit better rebounder (guy got 9 a game with mchale and parish). but let me know when lebron goes against magic johnson, kareem, james worthy and the 80's lakers lol i think that team is a tiny bit tougher than the older spurs

Bird was a better rebounder, but based on the numbers and the eye test, Lebron is to me a clearly better passer and ball handler. I'm pretty sure I already mentioned this, but Lebron spent most of game 7 of the finals in 2013 checking Tony Parker. He's 6-8 260 and was guarding Tony Parker. Parker shot 3-12, while Lebron played 45 minutes while being checked by Kawhi Leonard and dropped a 37-12-14. That's one of the great games anyone has ever played.

 

[Melancer46]

Another thing I'll throw out there is the game was a lot faster paced back in Bird's day, allowing you to put up more numbers. I guess Bird's best raw stat year was 88, where he put up 30-9-6 (which btw is freaking incredible, I'm not knocking the guy). The Celtics that year averaged 98 possessions per game. Lebron's best per game year was probably 2008, 30-8-7, Cavs averaged 90 possessions per game. Nearly 8 or 9% more possessions per game, not insignificant.

I mean we're also talking about 2 of the 7 or 8 best basketball players of all time? Lebron may not be the best player of all time, that's probably going to be MJ, but I really don't think we've seen any player truly like him ever. Let me know when Larry Bird checks Tony Parker in game 7 of the NBA finals.

I agree with the "LeBron > Bird" argument overall, but for what it's worth, looking at their age 30 seasons and adjusting for pace:

LeBron's numbers based on points, rebounds, and assists per touch while adjusting touches up to factor in an additional 6+ possessions per game (Boston averaged 98.6 possessions per game compared to Cleveland's 92.3):
26.9 PPG
6.4 RPG
7.9 APG

So it still doesn't match up to Bird's numbers for that particular season, but I do agree that overall, LeBron is better than Bird was at this point. Age 30 happened to be one of Bird's best years while it was nothing special for LeBron at all.