Looks like Mark Coyle has quite the mess at Minnesota

[AZOrange]

That is one of the most disturbing reports I've read. What have we become?

 

[Pyle]

maybe when the guys were standing in line to have s e x with someone that was intoxicated their good sense should have kicked in and told them it was a bad idea to take advantage of someone that was defenseless due to their mental state? That would have been the humane thing to do. I love the victim blaming in this thread as if the guys have zero culpability for their actions. The woman was an idiot for getting drunk beyond comprehension, that shouldn't make it okay for men to s e xually assault her.

Defenseless? Here is the investigators description of the video turned over to him by the players.

"She appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful, and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time. ... (She) sounds as though she is somewhat intoxicated, but is not slurring her words and is certainly conscious and aware of what is going on. She does not appear to be upset by the sexual activity and does not indicate that she wants it to stop ... and the sexual contact appears entirely consensual."

I understand the guys who have daughters, i have two boys, and if some girl has consensual sex with them and claims rape which destroys their lives then I have a big problem with that too. Not all women are angels. My girlfriend constantly reminds me of just how gullible men are and how devious some women can really be.

 

[AZOrange]

Defenseless? Here is the investigators description of the video turned over to him by the players.

"She appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful, and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time. ... (She) sounds as though she is somewhat intoxicated, but is not slurring her words and is certainly conscious and aware of what is going on. She does not appear to be upset by the s e xual activity and does not indicate that she wants it to stop ... and the s e xual contact appears entirely consensual."

That's really what makes it disturbing. Minnesota should just throw them all out, the players, the alleged victim, etc. if you can't act like a human, no college for you.

 

[DeGrozz]

Defenseless? Here is the investigators description of the video turned over to him by the players.

"She appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful, and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time. ... (She) sounds as though she is somewhat intoxicated, but is not slurring her words and is certainly conscious and aware of what is going on. She does not appear to be upset by the s e xual activity and does not indicate that she wants it to stop ... and the s e xual contact appears entirely consensual."

You forgot a pretty important part of that:

"During an 8-second clip"

Edit - there are two important parts. The other is that the videos were only taken with the 'first guy' who she had a previous consensual relationship with and she didn't accuse of non-consensual contact.

 

[Pyle]

That's really what makes it disturbing. Minnesota should just throw them all out, the players, the alleged victim, etc. if you can't act like a human, no college for you.

Human by who's standards? Humans are sexual, goes back to the dawn of civilization. Not everyone prescribes to Americans verions of sexuality, in fact most countries consider us prudes. Does that make the rest of the world inhumane as well?

 

[AZOrange]

Human by who's standards? Humans are s e xual, goes back to the dawn of civilization. Not everyone prescribes to Americans verions of s e xuality, in fact most countries consider us prudes. Does that make the rest of the world inhumane as well?

Hey do whatever peaks your pony, but do it in private. Want a gangbang? Find willing participants, sign waivers, have video backups, join the industry, I don't care. But don't gloss over some messed up college experiment with "this is just who we are, man" bullspit. Every one of those kids is there for a reason. To go to college. If you want to get hammered, engage in activities that may cross moral boundaries but certainly exceed the scope of purpose of university, then fine, but prepare for the consequences. No college. Most humans that I know and respect would be appalled by the facts set forth in that report. And I am not nearly prude, dude.

 

[pearl31]

maybe when the guys were standing in line to have s e x with someone that was intoxicated their good sense should have kicked in and told them it was a bad idea to take advantage of someone that was defenseless due to their mental state? That would have been the humane thing to do. I love the victim blaming in this thread as if the guys have zero culpability for their actions. The woman was an idiot for getting drunk beyond comprehension, that shouldn't make it okay for men to s e xually assault her.

Thank you.
I'm at ground zero of this (U of MN alum and lifelong MN resident) and the rampant victim shaming and attempted rationalization of sexual assault going on right now among hardcore Gophers fans is beyond disgusting.

 

[leftytg]

maybe when the guys were standing in line to have s e x with someone that was intoxicated their good sense should have kicked in and told them it was a bad idea to take advantage of someone that was defenseless due to their mental state? That would have been the humane thing to do. I love the victim blaming in this thread as if the guys have zero culpability for their actions. The woman was an idiot for getting drunk beyond comprehension, that shouldn't make it okay for men to s e xually assault her.

thank you for injecting some much needed perspective into this thread.

There is a whole lot of stupid in this thread. I particularly love it when people with no legal training but who apparently stayed at a Holiday Inn last night feel compelled to interpret the actions of prosecutors and standards of evidence.

Sexual assault cases are notoriously hard to prove. I prosecute child abuse cases (non criminal) and have a preponderance standard, and even that is a challenge. You have victims who are often impaired, reluctant witnesses because of how grueling and dehumanizing it is to subject oneself to all the victim shaming (especially when going up against athletes from the local D1 football team), and many links in the chain that are necessary in proving each and every element of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. It is not shocking in the least that prosecutor's office declined to press charges. The prosecutor has limited resources and has a responsibility to responsibly use those resources. However - and I simply cannot emphasize this enough - declining to pursue a criminal case IN NO WAY, SHAPE, or FORM is the same as exonerating the accused. It is an assault to logic and reason to claim that the prosecutor thinks no crime was committed. If that were the case, the prosecutor would say so. The only thing one can conclude from the failure to pursue charges is that the prosecutor does not think there is enough admissible evidence such that it would be a worthwhile investment of office resources to pursue a conviction in this case.

 

[Lou_C]

Defenseless? Here is the investigators description of the video turned over to him by the players.

"She appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful, and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time. ... (She) sounds as though she is somewhat intoxicated, but is not slurring her words and is certainly conscious and aware of what is going on. She does not appear to be upset by the s e xual activity and does not indicate that she wants it to stop ... and the s e xual contact appears entirely consensual."

I understand the guys who have daughters, i have two boys, and if some girl has consensual s e x with them and claims rape which destroys their lives then I have a big problem with that too. Not all women are angels. My girlfriend constantly reminds me of just how gullible men are and how devious some women can really be.

New details have been reported now beyond that original report, including that she now reported considerable resistance. That's a lot more than the original story.

I retract some of my comments in light of that.

Much of what she reported in that light was added later, which I understand the players' supporters being concerned with.

However, on the other hand, there was apparently some considerable lying or contradiction among statements by players, and that, not bring a court of law myself, it's enough to eliminate much of my own presumption of innocence.

 

[Pyle]

DA sounds like a wuss. She reported considerable resistance and they still won't press charges? Fitzy tried to indict Flynn and co., it was the grand jury that said no, not the DA's office. Also like to point out that the whole reason Coyle is even in MN to begin with is that the prior AD was brought up on sexual harassment charges. Coyle's first job is restore the department's integrity, I don't doubt for one second he would shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[Moontan]

he would shoot first and ask questions later

Just like the "10 to 20" guys that (what would you call it?) "made love" to her that night?

We all understand, and are concerned, about false allegations and the defamatory impact that that has on the accused. To most here, however, this case just doesn't sound like one of those. Many of the media stories don't go into the details of her telling the guys to stop. If you've only read those stories then maybe, somehow (?), you could condone this beastly behavior.

If suspending the 10 players for a bowl game, and possibly more, to indicate that what happened is not condoned by UMN is too much for some to understand (including their teammates) then I don't get it. When athletes are suspended for a game or two due to recreational drug use it's OK, but when it comes to s-e-x-u-a-l assault it's somehow not? At this point the players involved are likely fortunate that charges haven't been brought forward, yet...

On a related note, the Holiday Bowl is screwed. 10 days until kickoff. Too little time for a replacement team to try to assemble their team from break, prep for the game, etc.. UMN and/or the B1G may have to pony up some ca$h. I wonder if bowl games have insurance to address such a situation. One can only imagine what Mike Leach's comments will be.

 

[Stern]

Report out this morning that the powers that be at Minnesota are going to back out of the game today and let the Holiday Bowl they won't be going. They have until Noon today to tell the Holiday Bowl and there was some big summit last night between the school admins, AD (Coyle), and players and no common ground was found. Expect an announcement at Noon today that they will not be going to the Holiday Bowl.

Northern Illinois will take their spot in the game. But Northern Illinois has some other issues (nothing like this, more logistical as players haven't done anything for 3 weeks and made plans to be away for the next few weeks and will be scattered across the country with their families) and if they can't go then Cal or Arizona St will go and they will just have a re-match of their in-season match-up

 

[CuseOnly]

Just like the "10 to 20" guys that (what would you call it?) "made love" to her that night?

We all understand, and are concerned, about false allegations and the defamatory impact that that has on the accused. To most here, however, this case just doesn't sound like one of those. Many of the media stories don't go into the details of her telling the guys to stop. If you've only read those stories then maybe, somehow (?), you could condone this beastly behavior.

If suspending the 10 players for a bowl game, and possibly more, to indicate that what happened is not condoned by UMN is too much for some to understand (including their teammates) then I don't get it. When athletes are suspended for a game or two due to recreational drug use it's OK, but when it comes to s-e-x-u-a-l assault it's somehow not? At this point the players involved are likely fortunate that charges haven't been brought forward, yet...

On a related note, the Holiday Bowl is screwed. 10 days until kickoff. Too little time for a replacement team to try to assemble their team from break, prep for the game, etc.. UMN and/or the B1G may have to pony up some ca$h. I wonder if bowl games have insurance to address such a situation. One can only imagine what Mike Leach's comments will be.

Prosecutor's already reviewed the case and there will be no charges.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Prosecutor's already reviewed the case and there will be no charges.

Filed at that time. If new evidence came to light I'm sure this would change.

 

[CarolinaCuse]

Interesting updates overnight:

Players boycott likely to force Gophers from Holiday Bowl on Saturday

No wonder victims a reluctant to come forward. The university's 80-page investigation was leaked to local news. More details have come out including the involvement by a recruit and alleged cover ups by the players involved.

 

[Chip]

Prosecutors are human too. Which means they have interests. We like to believe they're all oath sworn robots, but history has proven they're not.

This story is a mess, but unless anyone knows what's contained in the university's internal investigation, how can you form an opinion on their actions?

Suspending the players per their policy and not making the details of their investigation public might turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to those players, as far as their futures are concerned.

 

[TexanMark]

Defenseless? Here is the investigators description of the video turned over to him by the players.

"She appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful, and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time. ... (She) sounds as though she is somewhat intoxicated, but is not slurring her words and is certainly conscious and aware of what is going on. She does not appear to be upset by the s e xual activity and does not indicate that she wants it to stop ... and the s e xual contact appears entirely consensual."

I understand the guys who have daughters, i have two boys, and if some girl has consensual s e x with them and claims rape which destroys their lives then I have a big problem with that too. Not all women are angels. My girlfriend constantly reminds me of just how gullible men are and how devious some women can really be.

So true as the current environment is you're guilty until proven innocent...however, this whole episode is so seedy. A few things should be addressed. What was the age of the victim and the alleged perps? (Since alcohol was involved) Did she know she was being videotaped? Has she done something like this before? Bottom line, I hope others learn from this...drunken group sex is a ticking time bomb for so many reasons.

Personally I think suspension is warranted (as playing for UM is a privilege not a right) but I'm not ready to convict these guys until they get their day in criminal court. BTW, a financial settlement is not an admission of guilt...

 

[atom58]

Prosecutors are human too. Which means they have interests. We like to believe they're all oath sworn robots, but history has proven they're not.

This story is a mess, but unless anyone knows what's contained in the university's internal investigation, how can you form an opinion on their actions?

Suspending the players per their policy and not making the details of their investigation public might turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to those players, as far as their futures are concerned.

This is true - that prosecutors are human, and in Florida they stand for election. Despite what some may think, DA Willie Meggs and the Tallahassee PD have historically shown no reticence in charging FSU's players prior to the Winston/Kinsman affair. One player who was important on the team was arrested, dismissed, and then later acquitted.

About this MN business, it could be a big problem under Title IX if she was mentally impaired during the episode which is the allegation. There are even law firms that specialize in these Title IX cases.

 

[DeGrozz]

Not that it's on the same level as the victim, but I feel bad for a lot of the students too. They probably dropped $500 - $1,000 on plane tickets for busy holiday travel days, maybe $100 on a game ticket, a couple hundred on hotel accommodations/air BNBs/etc and are probably all-in a grand or two for this bowl. I'd be pretty pissed.

 

[DeGrozz]

As soon as I post that, the players back down and end the boycott.

 

[AZOrange]

Prosecutors are human too. Which means they have interests. We like to believe they're all oath sworn robots, but history has proven they're not.

This story is a mess, but unless anyone knows what's contained in the university's internal investigation, how can you form an opinion on their actions?

Suspending the players per their policy and not making the details of their investigation public might turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to those players, as far as their futures are concerned.

There's a detailed report of their investigation in the players dismissal letter. It's a tough read.

 

[pearl31]

yeah looks like Gophers now going to play in the bowl. Claeys (and poss Coyle) is dead man walking tho - that program is about to go into the b1g cellar (again)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Has she done something like this before?

I think that's irrelevant. If she had, that has no bearing on her consent in the moment.

 

[orange79]

yeah looks like Gophers now going to play in the bowl. Claeys (and poss Coyle) is dead man walking tho - that program is about to go into the b1g cellar (again)

 

[bnoro]

I really hope something like this never happens at SU so we don't have to see people defend a gang rape because a couple of the people who did it happened to be pretty good at football...