Malachi Richardson has died of dysentery

[Briancuse]

I'm so confused as to what is going on in this thread.

Its gone from The Oregon Trail, to the old should Mali have entered the draft debate.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Its gone from The Oregon Trail, to the old should Mali have entered the draft debate.

It only took you 76 posts to join this conversation? I am shocked.

 

[Briancuse]

It only took you 76 posts to join this conversation? I am shocked.

I posted a few times before.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Do you really think Westbrook would get PT ahead of Frank?

Doubt it. His college stats were below average.

 

[alphaorange]

Guys can't shoot? I'd say there's a higher percentage of guys in the league right now that can shoot than ever before.

And you'd be wrong. Two point percentages are slightly down, while three point percentages are roughly the same since '94. I stand by my statement. Todays style does give one dimensional shooters a chance for a career, though. Ask Korver.

 

[alphaorange]

100% correct.

100% wrong

 

[alphaorange]

Those Laker and Celtic teams would be absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of offense this Warrior team can generate. They simply don't have enough three point shooters to compete.

The 1985 Laker team attempted a total of 295 threes the entire season. Steph Curry by himself made 402 threes last year.

The Lakers would obliterate the Warriors inside and on the boards. Christ, you act like the Warriors shoot 60% from 3. They actually shoot around 40%. They would not shoot 40% against the teams I mentioned. You act like those teams never defended 3 pointers...

 

[OrangeDW]

And you'd be wrong. Two point percentages are slightly down, while three point percentages are roughly the same since '94. I stand by my statement. Todays style does give one dimensional shooters a chance for a career, though. Ask Korver.

If percentages are the same...but they take WAY more of those shots, then the shooting is better. There's a lot more guys on every team who can make those shots, as opposed to the 80s when a team would sometimes only have 1 or 2 guys who would even take outside shots.

One dimensional spot up shooters have always been around. Ask Steve Kerr. Ask Craig Hodges.

 

[OrangeDW]

The Lakers would obliterate the Warriors inside and on the boards. Christ, you act like the Warriors shoot 60% from 3. They actually shoot around 40%. They would not shoot 40% against the teams I mentioned. You act like those teams never defended 3 pointers...

Comparing head to head matchups for teams 30 years apart is pointless. The games are too different to even bother.

 

[OrangeAl]

Babe Ruth would be Dave Kingman against today's pitchers.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

And you'd be wrong. Two point percentages are slightly down, while three point percentages are roughly the same since '94. I stand by my statement. Todays style does give one dimensional shooters a chance for a career, though. Ask Korver.

Yeah, but. . ... Big guys rarely shot the threes like they do now. Larry Bird was the exception, today he'd be the rule.

 

[Eric15]

The Lakers would obliterate the Warriors inside and on the boards. Christ, you act like the Warriors shoot 60% from 3. They actually shoot around 40%. They would not shoot 40% against the teams I mentioned. You act like those teams never defended 3 pointers...

The three ball was still a new and relatively unused weapon in the early to mid-80s, where as today entire offenses are based around it. It's a more efficient way of getting points because players are such unbelievable outside shooters today. I just think people are irrationally nostalgic when it comes to MJ/Bird/Magic.

How would someone like Danny Ainge or Dennis Johnson possibly be able to keep Kyrie Irving in front of them. 30 years later, we are in a completely different era of athleticism.

 

[djcon57]

The three ball was still a new and relatively unused weapon on the early to mid-80s, where as today entire offenses are based around it. It's a more efficient way of getting points because players are such unbelievable outside shooters today. I just think people are irrationally nostalgic when it comes to MJ/Bird/Magic.

How would someone like Danny Ainge or Dennis Johnson possibly be able to keep Kyrie Irving in front of them. 30 years later, we are in a completely different era of athleticism.

Imagine an 80s "DEFENSIVE STOPPER" like Alvin Robertson against Westbrook, Harden, etc

"HEY PGs aren't supposed to shoot!"

 

[OrangeDW]

The three ball was still a new and relatively unused weapon on the early to mid-80s, where as today entire offenses are based around it. It's a more efficient way of getting points because players are such unbelievable outside shooters today. I just think people are irrationally nostalgic when it comes to MJ/Bird/Magic.

How would someone like Danny Ainge or Dennis Johnson possibly be able to keep Kyrie Irving in front of them. 30 years later, we are in a completely different era of athleticism.

I think Magic, Bird, and Jordan would shine in any era. Bird would shoot way more 3's if he played in todays game. Magic would too...he didn't develop that aspect of his game until later in his career, but he didn't need to. The Lakers didn't need or want him shooting 3s early on. Those guys were just special players and would thrive in any era.

But there are certainly more good shooters now and yeah better strength training(cough PEDS), and more athleticism. There were definitely better low post scorers in the 80s. A player like Channing Frye might not have made it in the 80s, just like a Michael Cage might not make it in the 10s. Different eras, different games.

 

[Czar]

Unless we changed all the rules, those old teams would not keep up with the Warriors and Cavs. Few notable changes.

- Zone defense is allowed now. If you remember, this is what allowed so many classic big men to dominate, since you had to devote a full double team because a defender couldn't be not defending someone. Parrish and others would turn the ball over way more and not operate like they used to.

- Longer 3 line.

- No hand checking

 

[OrangeDW]

Unless we changed all the rules, those old teams would not keep up with the Warriors and Cavs. Few notable changes.

- Zone defense is allowed now. If you remember, this is what allowed so many classic big men to dominate, since you had to devote a full double team because a defender couldn't be not defending someone. Parrish and others would turn the ball over way more and not operate like they used to.

- Longer 3 line.

- No hand checking

The no hand checking is definitely huge. I do think good-very good players like Mark Price, Nick Van Exel, Mahmoud Abdul Rauf...smaller, skilled with the ball guards that could shoot, might be elite players in the current style of ball. They'd shoot more and have more freedom and hand checking wouldn't be a factor.

 

[Ward]

The no hand checking is definitely huge. I do think good-very good players like Mark Price, Nick Van Exel, Mahmoud Abdul Rauf...smaller, skilled with the ball guards that could shoot, might be elite players in the current style of ball. They'd shoot more and have more freedom and hand checking wouldn't be a factor.

That's what I think is most interesting is to think about; who would be even better or slightly worse under the different era's rules.

LeBron, Harden and Westbrook I don't think a hand check is really going to do much to guys who are such freak combo's of strength/explosiveness. Melo too who can bull himself to the rim with his strength; probably doesn't care if a guy can hand check just don't make him have to deal with a big who's waiting at the rim. Those guys are probably putting up crazy numbers in the older eras.

Curry or Kyrie a hand check probably slows them down a little bit and knocks them off their spot.

Overall, I kinda view the no hand checking and allowing zone defense as negating one another. Yea it's easier to get by your man when he isn't able to put a hand on your hip, however, it's much easier to finish at the rim when the defense's bigs aren't allowed to hang out on the block waiting for you.

 

[HOFCeluck]

And you'd be wrong. Two point percentages are slightly down, while three point percentages are roughly the same since '94. I stand by my statement. Todays style does give one dimensional shooters a chance for a career, though. Ask Korver.

Not to pile on but even if percentages are equal, volume is up. So guys now are probably taking shots that guys 20 years ago would have passed on because they were contested or whatever.

You also have 4s and 5s taking those shots at a reasonable clip now too.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Not to pile on but even if percentages are equal, volume is up. So guys now are probably taking shots that guys 20 years ago would have passed on because they were contested or whatever.

You also have 4s and 5s taking those shots at a reasonable clip now too.

Brook Lopez made 3 total threes the first 7 years of his career... he's made 66 this year

 

[Eric15]

And you'd be wrong. Two point percentages are slightly down, while three point percentages are roughly the same since '94. I stand by my statement. Todays style does give one dimensional shooters a chance for a career, though. Ask Korver.

It's not the percentages, it's the volume. In 1994, teams made on average 3.3 three point field goals per game. This year, it's 9.6.

Also, the average player in 1985 was 6'7", 207 lbs. This year it's 6'7" 220. That's 13 extra pounds of muscle at each position due to strength and conditioning advancements.

 

[Melancer46]

Brook Lopez made 3 total threes the first 7 years of his career... he's made 66 this year

Him and Marc Gasol have made incredible developments in that regard this year.

Meanwhile, Jason Smith has lived his entire career on taking jumpers from one foot inside the 3 point line and still has never considered taking a step back...

 

[Eric15]

I think Magic, Bird, and Jordan would shine in any era. Bird would shoot way more 3's if he played in todays game. Magic would too...he didn't develop that aspect of his game until later in his career, but he didn't need to. The Lakers didn't need or want him shooting 3s early on. Those guys were just special players and would thrive in any era.

But there are certainly more good shooters now and yeah better strength training(cough PEDS), and more athleticism. There were definitely better low post scorers in the 80s. A player like Channing Frye might not have made it in the 80s, just like a Michael Cage might not make it in the 10s. Different eras, different games.

I should have said the MJ/Bird/Magic era instead of those guys specifically. MJ is the greatest player of all-time and the other two are Top 10.

 

[alphaorange]

It's not the percentages, it's the volume. In 1994, teams made on average 3.3 three point field goals per game. This year, it's 9.6.

Also, the average player in 1985 was 6'7", 207 lbs. This year it's 6'7" 220. That's 13 extra pounds of muscle at each position due to strength and conditioning advancements.

This has absoutely nothing to do with your argument. I already acknowledged players are bigger and more athletic. Those alone do not raise the level of play. Stay on point. You made statements and I countered.

 

[alphaorange]

Not to pile on but even if percentages are equal, volume is up. So guys now are probably taking shots that guys 20 years ago would have passed on because they were contested or whatever.

You also have 4s and 5s taking those shots at a reasonable clip now too.

Guys passed on those shots because it wasn't the common thinking then. The rest was not argued.

 

[Alsacs]

Those Laker and Celtic teams would be absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of offense this Warrior team can generate. They simply don't have enough three point shooters to compete.

The 1985 Laker team attempted a total of 295 threes the entire season. Steph Curry by himself made 402 threes last year.

Offenses were different but those Lakers/Celtics teams were stacked.
They had HOFers as 6th men McHale/Mychal Thompson/McAdoo.

Also those teams had shooters where they could have used the 3 in today's game. Bird/Ainge/Scott/Cooper.

Those 80s Celtics/Lakers would dominate in today's NBA because of their high quality depth.
Lakers rotation
Magic, Scott, Worthy, Kareem, Cooper, Thompson, McAdoo, Rambis.
Celtics
Johnson, Ainge, Bird, McHale, Parrish, either Maxwell or Walton, Sichting, Wedman.

The 80s teams have inside and outside offense. Lebron maybe be able to beat them the Warriors nope.