May take an extra 12 months for this rebuild

[IthacaMatt]

1. Not sure this site is exactly representative of the fan base. This place is filled with die hards who pay attention (too much? ).
2. So what do you think he meant by it maybe taking an extra 12 months?

To compete at the top of the conference. He's not talking about getting to a bowl; he's talking about winning the ACC, or at least being in the conversation.

 

[TheCusian]

To compete at the top of the conference. He's not talking about getting to a bowl; he's talking about winning the ACC, or at least being in the conversation.

Exactly. Not sure the casual fan is expecting that in 3 years - if ever. I get the feeling that the non-syracusefan fan sees us behind Clemson and FSU forever.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Exactly. Not sure the casual fan is expecting that in 3 years - if ever. I get the feeling that the non-syracusefan fan sees us behind Clemson and FSU forever.

And the answer to that is "When we were in the Big East, we once were behind Miami, too."

 

[phil77]

I think Babers expects what I and most expect. A bowl game every year no less. Even this year everyone screams the schedule is so tough I can still see 6 wins, When he is talking about 2-3 year turn around I do also believe like others he is talking about a big picture winning ACC competing with Clemson and FSU getting in bigger bowls. Winning 9-10 games a year instead of 6-7...ECT.

 

[NineOneSeven]

My only disagreement with what you're saying is that a local fan should not think that the development I'll call it, because I don't recall him saying rebuild, would equate to 7-8 wins by year 3.

That shouldn't be acceptable.

Babers was brought in to get the wins SS's staff struggled to get. This was not a god awful team. It was a very young defense with an offense lead by about 6 different inexperienced QB's in 2 years.

Give me Pitt and Virginia again in '15 and it's a 6 win ball club. It's not like it was a 1-win team. The injury situation at QB was of epic proportions, literally something I've never seen before from anybody over a 2-yr stretch.

If the average fan is willing to wait 3 years for 7 or 8 wins then why in the hell did we get rid of the last staff?

Because Shafer-- who is a great guy -- just wasn't D1 head coaching material.

 

[Alsacs]

My only disagreement with what you're saying is that a local fan should not think that the development I'll call it, because I don't recall him saying rebuild, would equate to 7-8 wins by year 3.

That shouldn't be acceptable.

Babers was brought in to get the wins SS's staff struggled to get. This was not a god awful team. It was a very young defense with an offense lead by about 6 different inexperienced QB's in 2 years.

Give me Pitt and Virginia again in '15 and it's a 6 win ball club. It's not like it was a 1-win team. The injury situation at QB was of epic proportions, literally something I've never seen before from anybody over a 2-yr stretch.

If the average fan is willing to wait 3 years for 7 or 8 wins then why in the hell did we get rid of the last staff?

I now understand SS was nice to the local HS FB coaches and he gave time other coaches probably wouldn't give but the guy was in over his head as HC at a P5 level.

He constantly praised the MAC, he had more than a few cringe worthy press conferences, the guy was thrown into a tough spot but wasn't going to get it done. I get Marrone screwed things up when he left and took everything but hiring Shafer was such an obvious short term mistake.

Babers and his staff actually get it. It must suck for the regional HS coaches but for the FB program the change had to be made.

 

[Finwad32]

Because Shafer-- who is a great guy -- just wasn't D1 head coaching material.

Had nothing to do with the point I was making. Additionally:

I've sat in rooms with multiple NFL and P5 HC's... Scott Shafer was as adept a football mind as any of them.

His error, and it was a big one, was hiring GM as OC. He was over his head, significantly, and it was an awkward breakup in year 2. Tim Lester, then, only had 1 year to install things, with multiple different inexperienced and young QB's to boot. If he hired a proven OC from jump, he would still be the HC here today.

SS has more than enough ability and knowledge to lead a program.

AGAIN... That statement was not to debate wether or not he should still be here, it was to say that we should expect MORE from Dino.

 

[SoBristol]

good Q & A article.

proves what I thought about SS was right. he went out searching for big recruits, found a few, but instead of having a plan for the rest of the team and him being the fertilizer to help them all grow...he filled in around his big recruits with manure, and hoped it would work.

#InDinoITrust

Dino is saying he does not have enough info to comment about the prior staff's approach to recruiting. If you look at what Shafer tried to do (based on offers made), he was making offers to a list of good prospects -- very similar to the 200 or so offers by Babers this time around. The difference is that Shafer was not able to get visits from those prospects, or wasn't able to close as well as Babers might be able to do. Shafer wasn't trying to get fill-ins.

 

[Lou_C]

IMO there is a good chance the season will be a disappointment from a W-L perspective, but we will score points. It will be different football and very frustrating on defense. We will lose differently, but we will scare the hell out of a few people.

By the time Tommy Gun plays we will be a whole different team. Can't wait.

I think this is right. The first step is to lose FUN. 6-7 wins can be found pretty quickly, but you are at least several recruiting classes away to be competing with FSU and Clemson unless they implode like they did in the 2000s. You're talking about some of the elite programs in the country. I think the best chance to upgrade quickly is for high 3 and low 4 star recruits within several hundred miles that don't fit the prototypical size that the super elite programs are looking for to see Syracuse as the program at which they are most going to shine and be showcased.

If Babers can offer a better showcase than schools like Pitt, Rutgers, BC, Penn State, etc, and a chance to get on the field early, I think that's going to matter more than whether you win 6 games or 7 games.

Easy for me to say not being a Syracuse fan, but I don't think the wins and losses are nearly as important as whether Syracuse is establishing a system that is going to make it unique in the region. If you win four games, but at times the offense looks unstoppable, and you scare some people as you suggest...I'd feel pretty good about things. I would take that over gutting out six wins on luck and balls and effort, but not seeing evidence the offense is going to work in the ACC.

It's really about what is going to elevate the talent level.

 

[texascpa]

i am going on record stating that i will not be surprised by literally any result this year. Dino has put me in a pretzel in terms of how we have been accustomed to our HC at Syracuse. How this works out is anyone's guess. I could see this team rattling off 9 wins or 1 win. There's no precedent to this type of pivot at Syracuse, in my lifetime.

It makes it super interesting and fascinating. Regarding how long he stays with Syracuse, I don't really care. Those things work themselves out. It's very rare for a guy with minimal success, like Marrone, to get nabbed that quickly but ultimately he had no interest in the college game. It was a stopover. Dino is college and for him to move on in college he will need to put up a few big years at Syracuse. Bring it on.

Great post. Babers is an enigma. He tempers our's and the media's expectations, then allows a reporter to record his "3 Conference Championships...Why not us? Why?" speech to the team. If this was just a ra-ra, let's go speech to the team, no way he allows it to be A) recorded and B) published online. He definitely has higher expectations than he's showing in front of the camera during his interviews.

 

[HtownOrange]

This is college sports, contract extensions aren't worth the paper they are written on. If a bigger school wants him they will pay whatever it takes to get him out of that contract. If he is unhappy here (even if he is winning) he will bolt to make himself happy. Contracts in college sports have become meaningless to a certain level.

Keep looking for the bad in things and you will find it. My point had nothing to do with contractually locking anyone into anything, I work with contracts, I know that contracts can be broken. My comment had to do with showing good faith to HCDB, essentially, if he performs, SU is behind him, here is proof.

No one will dispute that if a coach wants to coach a perceived better school they will do so, for money, location, prestige, etc.

 

[orange44]

There's also another subset of fans lurking out there. The ones who prefer meathead football and are waiting to pounce on this offense if it struggles out the gate.

So true.

 

[orange44]

I think this is right. The first step is to lose FUN. 6-7 wins can be found pretty quickly, but you are at least several recruiting classes away to be competing with FSU and Clemson unless they implode like they did in the 2000s. You're talking about some of the elite programs in the country. I think the best chance to upgrade quickly is for high 3 and low 4 star recruits within several hundred miles that don't fit the prototypical size that the super elite programs are looking for to see Syracuse as the program at which they are most going to shine and be showcased.

If Babers can offer a better showcase than schools like Pitt, Rutgers, BC, Penn State, etc, and a chance to get on the field early, I think that's going to matter more than whether you win 6 games or 7 games.

Easy for me to say not being a Syracuse fan, but I don't think the wins and losses are nearly as important as whether Syracuse is establishing a system that is going to make it unique in the region. If you win four games, but at times the offense looks unstoppable, and you scare some people as you suggest...I'd feel pretty good about things. I would take that over gutting out six wins on luck and balls and effort, but not seeing evidence the offense is going to work in the ACC.

It's really about what is going to elevate the talent level.

Excellent points!!

 

[phil77]

I think this is right. The first step is to lose FUN. 6-7 wins can be found pretty quickly, but you are at least several recruiting classes away to be competing with FSU and Clemson unless they implode like they did in the 2000s. You're talking about some of the elite programs in the country. I think the best chance to upgrade quickly is for high 3 and low 4 star recruits within several hundred miles that don't fit the prototypical size that the super elite programs are looking for to see Syracuse as the program at which they are most going to shine and be showcased.

If Babers can offer a better showcase than schools like Pitt, Rutgers, BC, Penn State, etc, and a chance to get on the field early, I think that's going to matter more than whether you win 6 games or 7 games.

Easy for me to say not being a Syracuse fan, but I don't think the wins and losses are nearly as important as whether Syracuse is establishing a system that is going to make it unique in the region. If you win four games, but at times the offense looks unstoppable, and you scare some people as you suggest...I'd feel pretty good about things. I would take that over gutting out six wins on luck and balls and effort, but not seeing evidence the offense is going to work in the ACC.

It's really about what is going to elevate the talent level.

I want the offense to work and gut out 6 wins

 

[FrancoPizza]

I want the offense to work and gut out 6 wins

Hopefully this is the year that both the football and basketball teams remove white-knuckling from the playbook. Score and score fast.

 

[sufandu]

Yeah, not a perfect comp. But that's why I included only P5 teams - they'd expect to beat the MAC teams due to their history. They hadn't beaten a P5 team under Clawson. They beat Indiana in 2014 and Maryland in 2015. They punched above their weight, which we'll have to do a lot more of.

(Side note: we averaged 25 vs P5 schools)

And even then the comparison isn't perfect. Every year we play 2 teams that are bether than the two best teams they played over the course of two seasons and we'll play 4 this year that are equal to or better than the best they saw. The other P5's they played were all equal to or worse than Wake Forest.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be better, just that there isn't really any comparison in competition level between us and BG.

 

[TheCusian]

And even then the comparison isn't perfect. Every year we play 2 teams that are bether than the two best teams they played over the course of two seasons and we'll play 4 this year that are equal to or better than the best they saw. The other P5's they played were all equal to or worse than Wake Forest. I'm not saying we shouldn't be better, just that there isn't really any comparison in competition level between us and BG.

And our talent is better than BG in most spots.

Indiana played and beat Wake last season.

Not saying it's a perfect comp - just that if we avg 25 vs P5 and BG avg 31... Avg 30 on the year is pretty spot on. If anything it might be low.

 

[sufandu]

And our talent is better than BG in most spots.

Indiana played and beat Wake last season.

Not saying it's a perfect comp - just that if we avg 25 vs P5 and BG avg 31... Avg 30 on the year is pretty spot on. If anything it might be low.

I agree our talent is better. I'm just saying we can't look at BG's numbers against their schedule and draw conclusions about what our numbers should be this year. I can see us rolling some of the lesser teams and being disappointed we couldn't hang better with the elites, at least this year. I think it'll be a fun season. And it'll be even more fun knowing so much of our talent comes back next year.

 

[CuseOnly]

This is college sports, contract extensions aren't worth the paper they are written on. If a bigger school wants him they will pay whatever it takes to get him out of that contract. If he is unhappy here (even if he is winning) he will bolt to make himself happy. Contracts in college sports have become meaningless to a certain level.

I worry about B1G and SEC teams like Vanderbilt, Indiana, Kentucky, Purdue, Illinois seeing Babers have success at SU and realizing he can do it anywhere and offering him 5-6 mil a year to jump ship.

SU paying him 2.5 is great but doubling your salary, he almost has to jump unless of course we give a huge bump.

 

[Scooch]

Hahaha. The guy hasn't coached a game yet and some of you will be calling his hiring a mistake by October. But by all means let's talk extensions and worry if he'll leave.

 

[CIL]

We haven't even played a game yet and people are already worrying about his departure...jeezuz...

 

[sufandu]

I worry about B1G and SEC teams like Vanderbilt, Indiana, Kentucky, Purdue, Illinois seeing Babers have success at SU and realizing he can do it anywhere and offering him 5-6 mil a year to jump ship.

SU paying him 2.5 is great but doubling your salary, he almost has to jump unless of course we give a huge bump.

I hope he was genuine when he said he already could've taken more somewhere else. At some point the law of diminishing returns takes over with income. Making more money in a place he doesn't like may not make him happier than making a bit less at a place he does like. Here's hoping he genuinely likes CNY and is content with being a multimillionaire here instead of a wealthier multimillionaire elsewhere. If he has the success we think he can, I hope he is rewarded, but we will never be able to match what some competitors can offer.

 

[CuseOnly]

Hahaha. The guy hasn't coached a game yet and some of you will be calling his hiring a mistake by October. But by all means let's talk extensions and worry if he'll leave.

Who is saying that exactly?

EDIT: I was talking about him being lured away by his success here, which in coaching is always a possibility. Texas tried to lure away Saban 2 years ago with $100 mil and Saban is older than Babers. So don't say it can't happen. Age is irrelevant, Babers is 55, Strong is 56, Richt is 56, Saban is 64, Miles is 62...if you don't think when they get fired or decide to move that they will be looking to coach somewhere else, you are crazy.

 

[kirbivore]

It really is ridiculous. Same people who harp on Marrone saying Cuse was his dream job. Gotta let it go people. Enjoy the ride.

He took the highest level coaching job in football good for him. I never cared for his aggressive punting and stick up his ass demeanor and was laughing my ass off after he arrogantly opted out of the Buffalo job and ended up as OLCDM in Jacksonville.

 

[Orijinal]

I've sat in rooms with multiple NFL and P5 HC's... Scott Shafer was as adept a football mind as any of them.

His error, and it was a big one, was hiring GM as OC. He was over his head, significantly, and it was an awkward breakup in year 2. Tim Lester, then, only had 1 year to install things, with multiple different inexperienced and young QB's to boot. If he hired a proven OC from jump, he would still be the HC here today.

SS has more than enough ability and knowledge to lead a program.

To see what you just wrote here has been my unspoken opinion since the day he was fired. After reading this the feelings of regret well up inside me once again.

I truly wonder what he would have been able to do this year had Lester been able to mold his system one more season.

The other side of the coin is he really did say a couple bone head things in press conferences, the most egregious being the "special comeback" reasoning he used to excuse himself for keeping Dungey in the game.

Man. I feel bad for Shafer and still wonder "what if." But I'm very excited to see what Syracuse may do in the next few seasons.