Mets

[orangefog]

ESPN is reporting that they accidentally played with superballs in the Phillies vs Mets game last night. New equipment manager John Jastremski says the balls are part of locker room attendant, Jim McNally's duties. The two are under investigation.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't even know what to say. Literally about one month ago the Mets had maybe the worst offense in the major leagues, with 3 guys I'd consider above average hitters. They can now run out a lineup with average or better hitters maybe everywhere (especially when you consider platoons) with solid bats on the bench as well. had them with tied with the Cards for best odds to win the national league. I don't know if this is real life.

 

[jordoo]

Well it pays off to be a Mets fan once every 30 years or so. I started collecting baseball cards about 84/85 and liked the Mets uni better than the Yanks my two NY options. Beat the socks when I was 10 but has been a long ride since. I suppose its not too bad since I'm not a huge baseball fan. I expected a huge decline this season after the start because of the lineup, we saw the beginnings of one but by some miracle its reversed itself and we've made up ground while the pitching swooned a bit.

 

[SWC75]

ESPN is reporting that they accidentally played with superballs in the Phillies vs Mets game last night. New equipment manager John Jastremski says the balls are part of locker room attendant, Jim McNally's duties. The two are under investigation.

I had to laugh listening to the PGA where the commentators were talking about how several golfers are using a ball with a softer shell they like because they can control their puts better. In golf, they realized that marketing clubs and balls for their differences would make them more money than standardizing them so everybody was playing with the same equipment.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I'm calling it the Reverse Curse of Wilmer... I guess that would be the Blessing of Wilmer?

What's crazy is that there is a still a significant part of me which feels like this can fall apart at any moment. I hate hate the fact that we are still dealing with interleague play this late into the season when it's crunch time. Yes I know that the RedSox are a last place team but AL East last place teams are not like NL last place teams, they are dangerous. The Tampa Bay series kind of confirmed that... the Rays aren't having a great year but they still played till the last out every game and they were aggressive things which the bottom feeders in the NL have not been this year. Then we have the Yankees still waiting for us and we really haven't played them that well and 6 games against the Nats which obviously will decide the season. It's obvious to me that the kids throwing the ball need a rest, I've never seen DeGrom look so lost as he did last night. He said it himself, he didn't make a single pitch and his velocity was down. I am really really afraid to see what Thor does tonight. I really hope he has a good start and can hand the ball to Clippard in the 8th or even Robles in the 7th because the bullpen needs a break.

Regardless it's an amazing ride. When the Mets got down 7-2 last night I had no doubt in my mind they would make a come back and I left the tv on and was rewarded with one of the most entertaining games of baseball I've seen in a long time.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Well it pays off to be a Mets fan once every 30 years or so. I started collecting baseball cards about 84/85 and liked the Mets uni better than the Yanks my two NY options. Beat the socks when I was 10 but has been a long ride since. I suppose its not too bad since I'm not a huge baseball fan. I expected a huge decline this season after the start because of the lineup, we saw the beginnings of one but by some miracle its reversed itself and we've made up ground while the pitching swooned a bit.

I'll give a ton of credit to Sandy... his moves totally changed the lineup. It's too bad we have no shot at keeping Cespedes after this season. If he was signed to a 5 year contract we're looking at a core of Cespedes, Fores, Conforto, Duda, Herrera, Wright, D'Arnaud, Granderson + Harvey, Thor, Matz, DeGrom, Wheeler until Harvey's walk year in 2018. That team would be NL East and playoff contenders.

 

[jordoo]

I'll give a ton of credit to Sandy... his moves totally changed the lineup. It's too bad we have no shot at keeping Cespedes after this season. If he was signed to a 5 year contract we're looking at a core of Cespedes, Fores, Conforto, Duda, Herrera, Wright, D'Arnaud, Granderson + Harvey, Thor, Matz, DeGrom, Wheeler until Harvey's walk year in 2018. That team would be NL East and playoff contenders.

I'm just happy we finally bit the bullet a while back and started keeping the guys we developed in the farm system. It seemed like every good pitcher we brought through the organization in the late 90's and early 00's would get traded before having a legit chance to make our ML roster and then become a quality starting pitcher for someone else. That drove me nutz.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm just happy we finally bit the bullet a while back and started keeping the guys we developed in the farm system. It seemed like every good pitcher we brought through the organization in the late 90's and early 00's would get traded before having a legit chance to make our ML roster and then become a quality starting pitcher for someone else. That drove me nutz.

The thing is though, none of those guys really became anything other than Kazmir right? (And don't get me started on the Kazmir deal).

I don't know if Degrom is getting tired or what; the guy has been lights out for like 3 months. I'm willing to just chalk it up to a bad outing; it happens. There is the part of me that remembers 07 and 08 and thinks it can all fall apart, but when I look at it objectively; I think we are at least as good as the nats, if not better, and we have a 5.5 game lead. The schedule is really soft until we go to DC starting labor day; I don't want to say we're going to run away and hide, but there's a chance we run away and hide.

 

[Briancuse]

The thing is though, none of those guys really became anything other than Kazmir right? (And don't get me started on the Kazmir deal).

I don't know if Degrom is getting tired or what; the guy has been lights out for like 3 months. I'm willing to just chalk it up to a bad outing; it happens. There is the part of me that remembers 07 and 08 and thinks it can all fall apart, but when I look at it objectively; I think we are at least as good as the nats, if not better, and we have a 5.5 game lead. The schedule is really soft until we go to DC starting labor day; I don't want to say we're going to run away and hide, but there's a chance we run away and hide.

I think it was just a bad outing, he has been so good, he was due for this kind of start.

 

[Knicks411]

I think it was just a bad outing, he has been so good, he was due for this kind of start.

If he gets lit up again next time out, I'd be a little more concerned. As of now, I'm chalking it up to a bad start. More worried about Thor.

 

[BlackKnight76]

I'll give a ton of credit to Sandy... his moves totally changed the lineup. It's too bad we have no shot at keeping Cespedes after this season. If he was signed to a 5 year contract we're looking at a core of Cespedes, Fores, Conforto, Duda, Herrera, Wright, D'Arnaud, Granderson + Harvey, Thor, Matz, DeGrom, Wheeler until Harvey's walk year in 2018. That team would be NL East and playoff contenders.

I know its probably not the most prudent thing to do, but I think giving Cespedes a Godfather-type offer during that short window might be worth it just to appease the fan base and prove to them the Wilpons are willing to spend.

Unfortunately, I don't actually think the Wilpons are willing to spend.

 

[Briancuse]

I know its probably not the most prudent thing to do, but I think giving Cespedes a Godfather-type offer during that short window might be worth it just to appease the fan base and prove to them the Wilpons are willing to spend.

Unfortunately, I don't actually think the Wilpons are willing to spend.

The problem is even if the Wilpons do give him a can't refuse offer, which I agree with you, I don't think the Wilpons are capable of doing, I think Cespedes is still going to want to test the Free agent market.

 

[Knicks411]

I know its probably not the most prudent thing to do, but I think giving Cespedes a Godfather-type offer during that short window might be worth it just to appease the fan base and prove to them the Wilpons are willing to spend.

Unfortunately, I don't actually think the Wilpons are willing to spend.

Maybe they can be convinced to spend money if they teams makes a deep run, but I will continue to remain extremely skeptical of that until it happens. Plus i doubt Sandy wants to give him that kind of deal anyway.

 

[donniesyracuse]

...just to appease the fan base and prove to them the Wilpons are willing to spend.

That seems like a terrible reason to do something.

 

[Briancuse]

Maybe they can be convinced to spend money if they teams makes a deep run, but I will continue to remain extremely skeptical of that until it happens. Plus i doubt Sandy wants to give him that kind of deal anyway.

I think it has more to do with the revenue that they would receive from a deep playoff run. I have come to the conclusion that the Wilpons are having some serious financial problems, and don't have the money.

 

[BlackKnight76]

That seems like a terrible reason to do something.

Generally agree, but in this case the off-season is going to be extremely important. The Mets will likely be teetering on becoming a playoff regular or falling back to the pack, and overpaying for Cespedes could generate a ton of goodwill with a fan base that still hates the ownership. Also, he's a really good player.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Generally agree, but in this case the off-season is going to be extremely important. The Mets will likely be teetering on becoming a playoff regular or falling back to the pack, and overpaying for Cespedes could generate a ton of goodwill with a fan base that still hates the ownership. Also, he's a really good player.

Yes, I am not saying they shouldn't do it, just that if they do, they should do it because it's good for the team, not to please the fan base. If they win, the fan base will be pleased regardless.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think it has more to do with the revenue that they would receive from a deep playoff run. I have come to the conclusion that the Wilpons are having some serious financial problems, and don't have the money.

I don't think any conclusions need to be made about the state of the Mets finances... it's pretty much fact.

The Wilpons lost a ton of money due to Madoff (think B's not M's) and the owe money as a part of some class action suite related to it. As a result they are broke and any money SNY generates is used to cover their costs and operating costs for the Mets. Additionally they had to take a bridge loan from MLB, I think it was last season, just to make payroll and that payment is due as well. To compound matters the Mets amortized some of their big contracts from the last decade and the late 90's, when the Wilpon's were big spenders, over the course of 30 years... Bobby Bonilla's being the most infamous example.

Now the right thing for MLB to do is to step in and force the Wilpons to sell the team to someone who can actually afford to run a baseball team like they did to the Dodgers last owner... but instead they gave them a loan and then made Wilpon the head of the MLB Finance committee because you know getting fleeced by Madoff and having so much debt they have to take loans out just to make payroll is the sign of a sound finance person.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Generally agree, but in this case the off-season is going to be extremely important. The Mets will likely be teetering on becoming a playoff regular or falling back to the pack, and overpaying for Cespedes could generate a ton of goodwill with a fan base that still hates the ownership. Also, he's a really good player.

He has single handedly change the complexion of the entire lineup. It's helped all of the other guys relax... they were all trying to more than they abilities let them before Cespedes showed up. Now that they know they can depend on him as a slump buster everyone's at bats have gotten much much better. If the Mets hitters carry this into next year then they actually could be okay without Cespedes but my fear is that they will revert back to the hitless wonder that they were in the 1st half of the year.

 

[SWC75]

I don't think any conclusions need to be made about the state of the Mets finances... it's pretty much fact.

The Wilpons lost a ton of money due to Madoff (think B's not M's) and the owe money as a part of some class action suite related to it. As a result they are broke and any money SNY generates is used to cover their costs and operating costs for the Mets. Additionally they had to take a bridge loan from MLB, I think it was last season, just to make payroll and that payment is due as well. To compound matters the Mets amortized some of their big contracts from the last decade and the late 90's, when the Wilpon's were big spenders, over the course of 30 years... Bobby Bonilla's being the most infamous example.

Now the right thing for MLB to do is to step in and force the Wilpons to sell the team to someone who can actually afford to run a baseball team like they did to the Dodgers last owner... but instead they gave them a loan and then made Wilpon the head of the MLB Finance committee because you know getting fleeced by Madoff and having so much debt they have to take loans out just to make payroll is the sign of a sound finance person.

The Wilpons admitted in SI that they signed players to deferred compensation contracts because they figured with Madoff's returns, by the time they had to pay that money they've would have made more money that from Madoff. The problems with that are:

1) It's the player's money they are essentially loaning to the club to enhance the club's present by allowing them to spend that money to improve the team such that, (hopefully), the player will play his last years on contending teams and then get the financial security of a continuing income into his retirement.

2) Once loaned, the money is the ballclub's money. the ballclub is a corporation. The Wilpons are majority owners but that doesn't mean the corporation's money belongs to them. They can decide that the corporation should pay them a salary or a dividend. They can sell stock and make money off of that. But they can't just take the ballclub's money and give it to Bernie Madoff to see if they can make a personal profit off of it.

Frankly, that is a crime or should be. And it's a bigger crime if they knew Madoff was running a Ponzi scheme. It's worse than anything the McCourts did. The Wilpons should have been thrown out of baseball for their shenanghans but, unlike Frank McCourt, Fred Wilpon was buddies with Bud Selig so he's not only still in baseball but, as you point out, sitting pretty.

 

[bevosu]

One weakness I see on this team is the need for a solid left handed relief pitcher. Gilmartin and O'Flaherty just haven't proven to be that reliable.

Set up or closer...either would help.

 

[Briancuse]

One weakness I see on this team is the need for a solid left handed relief pitcher. Gilmartin and O'Flaherty just haven't proven to be that reliable.

Set up or closer...either would help.

Blevins was that guy, its a shame that he got hurt twice.

 

[SWC75]

One weakness I see on this team is the need for a solid left handed relief pitcher. Gilmartin and O'Flaherty just haven't proven to be that reliable.

Set up or closer...either would help.

Gilmartin was great yesterday.

 

[bevosu]

Gilmartin has decent stats ...just not sure he has gotten enough work?

 

[OrangeFoo]

The Wilpons admitted in SI that they signed players to deferred compensation contracts because they figured with Madoff's returns, by the time they had to pay that money they've would have made more money that from Madoff. The problems with that are:

1) It's the player's money they are essentially loaning to the club to enhance the club's present by allowing them to spend that money to improve the team such that, (hopefully), the player will play his last years on contending teams and then get the financial security of a continuing income into his retirement.

2) Once loaned, the money is the ballclub's money. the ballclub is a corporation. The Wilpons are majority owners but that doesn't mean the corporation's money belongs to them. They can decide that the corporation should pay them a salary or a dividend. They can sell stock and make money off of that. But they can't just take the ballclub's money and give it to Bernie Madoff to see if they can make a personal profit off of it.

Frankly, that is a crime or should be. And it's a bigger crime if they knew Madoff was running a Ponzi scheme. It's worse than anything the McCourts did. The Wilpons should have been thrown out of baseball for their shenanghans but, unlike Frank McCourt, Fred Wilpon was buddies with Bud Selig so he's not only still in baseball but, as you point out, sitting pretty.

The one area you are incorrect, unfortunately, is that baseball teams are not corporations... well at least all but four (http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/16/baseball-team-ownership-biz-cx_mw_0217baseball.html). The article is old and I think the Cubs are no longer owned by a corporation either. So this means that unfortunately the Wilpons can do whatever the hell they want because its their money. If the Mets were owned by a corporation I suspect the Wilpons would have been tossed a long time ago and to your point probably in jail. I agree with the rest of your post.

I don't know what it is about NY state teams and owners. The Bills had Wilson who, god bless his soul, either couldn't afford to compete or didn't know how to compete in the new NFL world that is entirely salary cap driven. I have a TON of respect for Wilson as he is the only reason the Bills are in Buffalo but it's fun to see the team change under the Pegulas. Dolan is the worst owner in the NBA and potentially all of sports, although weirdly the Rangers do pretty well in spite of him. And the Mets have the Wilpons. For the last 15 years my three main professional teams have been saddled by owners who were and in some cases are holding them back.