Mike Hopkins is our next coach...

[SoBeCuse]

You're not being scolded, but rather being set straight. You had no idea there was a contract in place, which is ridiculous. Obviously, there is. There was never a verbal contract or promise. And contracts are not broken everyday without consequence. There are penalties in place for a reason. That's the whole point of a contract. There is a very large buyout in this case. AD's report to Chancellors and BOT's. They don't run them. See Daryl Gross, who didn't run Syracuse. It's not just the AD's job to select a coach. Gross had to put together a committee to find the football coach. So, as you can see, it's not just the AD's decision, especially in this case, where not honoring the contract would harm the university's reputation and monetarily.

The due diligence has been done. Hopkins is taking over, like it or not. Everyone at Syracuse says so.

Thanks for the lesson. We can agree to disagree on the heirarchy of the powers to be making these decisions. Obviously it is not just the ADs decision but, IMO, you are giving the AD far less power and credibility. Don't ever try to belittle me again. Just because I don't believe that this process is as set in stone as you do doesn't mean I can't question it. You are speculating as much as I am frankly.

 

[SoBeCuse]

SoBeCuse's alma mater. He said no way to Hop.

Nice try, ha. I didn't ever think he was getting the job, frankly.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Sometimes yes. But not in cases where a HCIW deal is already done.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure James Franklin was HCIW under Friedgen at Maryland...Then a new ad came in.

 

[Jake]

But that ain't happening here. Anyone disparaging the opinions of Alpharettacuse are whistling through the graveyard here.

 

[HOFCeluck]

But that ain't happening here. Anyone disparaging the opinions of Alpharettacuse are whistling through the graveyard here.

I'm disputing the idea that a HCIW deal is never broken. Not that Hopkins won't be or next coach. I agree he will.

 

[Jake]

And he never said it's never broken, he's saying it won't be broken here...,for the reasons he's $tated.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Thanks for the lesson. We can agree to disagree on the heirarchy of the powers to be making these decisions. Obviously it is not just the ADs decision but, IMO, you are giving the AD far less power and credibility. Don't ever try to belittle me again. Just because I don't believe that this process is as set in stone as you do doesn't mean I can't question it. You are speculating as much as I am frankly.

The AD reports to whom? The chancellor? The BOT has to appove contracts, so that means the AD also reports to the BOT. Did Daryl Gross run Syracuse? Of course not. Did Mark Coyle run Syracuse? No. Neither does Wildhack. As you just said it's not just the AD's decision. Nobody is trying to belittle or scold you-just trying to help you understand the reality here. I am not speculating on the fact that the chancellor, Boeheim, Hopkins and Wildhack have all publicly stated that Hopkins is taking over in 2018, nor am I speculating that there is a contract in place for Hopkins. Those are facts man. Again, why would that plan have changed, when everyone is on board with Hopkins?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure James Franklin was HCIW under Friedgen at Maryland...Then a new ad came in.

Correct. I bet Maryland wishes they kept Franklin, who just took Penn State to the Rose Bowl, while firing Randy Edsall and Fridge before him. Rememeber, Bobby Bowden didn't want to retire either, but I'm guessing that $5 million payment to Fisher helped force Bowden out. Maryland should have done the same. They fired Fridge anyway.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I'm disputing the idea that a HCIW deal is never broken. Not that Hopkins won't be or next coach. I agree he will.

Franklin left Maryland for the Vanderbilt job because Fridge didn't want to leave.

"If Franklin, 38, had remained at Maryland, he would have received $1 million if not named Maryland's head coach by January 2012. The departure of Franklin, who had been named head coach-in-waiting in February 2009, leaves Maryland facing several questions during an important winter for the program and for first-year Athletic Director Kevin Anderson."

 

[CousCuse]

Correct. I bet Maryland wishes they kept Franklin, who just took Penn State to the Rose Bowl, while firing Randy Edsall.

You can't seriously be comparing Maryland football with Syracuse basketball as a brand. Syracuse basketball, Jim Boeheim and the Carrier Dome are recognized around the world.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

You can't seriously be comparing Maryland football with Syracuse basketball as a brand. Syracuse basketball, Jim Boeheim and the Carrier Dome are recognized around the world.

No. It's another example of a HCIW contract that Hopkins has. This shows that Maryland was on the hook for $1MM if they backed out on Franklin. These buyouts exits.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The AD reports to whom? The chancellor? The BOT has to appove contracts, so that means the AD also reports to the BOT. Did Daryl Gross run Syracuse? Of course not. Did Mark Coyle run Syracuse? No. Neither does Wildhack. As you just said it's not just the AD's decision. Nobody is trying to belittle or scold you-just trying to help you understand the reality here. I am not speculating on the fact that the chancellor, Boeheim, Hopkins and Wildhack have all publicly stated that Hopkins is taking over in 2018, nor am I speculating that there is a contract in place for Hopkins. Those are facts man. Again, why would that plan have changed, when everyone is on board with Hopkins?

Again, I'm simply claiming that there COULD be change. For crying out loud I do believe Hopkins will be the coach but that does not mean another avenue couldn't be pursued to go against the grain. Unlikely sure. Impossible, no. There are other variables at play...politicians, organized crime, etc. IMO, you are giving the Chancellor too much power. Maybe you truly know how it works at Syracuse but I do know the structure of the heirarchy at places like USC and Ohio St. There are far many more variables and wheeling/dealing. You think Pat Haden took orders from Nikias or Sample? Guess again.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Again, I'm simply claiming that there COULD be change. For crying out loud I do believe Hopkins will be the coach but that does not mean another avenue couldn't be pursued to go against the grain. Unlikely sure. Impossible, no. There are other variables at play...politicians, organized crime, etc. IMO, you are giving the Chancellor too much power. Maybe you truly know how it works at Syracuse but I do know the structure of the heirarchy at places like USC and Ohio St. There are far many more variables and wheeling/dealing. You think Pat Haden took orders for Nikias or Sample? Guess again.

I never said change was impossible. You're saying what I'm saying. It's unlikely, and that Hopkins will be the coach. We agree. I think you're not giving the Chancellor enough power. He certainly has a lot more at Syracuse than the AD. We're not a football factory, and the culture is not like it is at Alabama, Florida, Ohio State or USC. We don't pay our coaches $5-9 MM annually either. Syracuse doesnt just fire people for a bad year or two or 5 (Coach P). They give then ample time to get the job done. They don't go out and hire big name coaches and pay them crazy salaries. They give assistant coaches a chance-like Boeheim, Pasqualoni, Scott Shafer, and now Hopkins. They hired Marrone over proven head coaches like Skip Holtz. That's the philosophy up there.

There's no reason to throw away buyout money here, especially when they belive they have the right guy. You're saying there could be change? Why? What would compel Syracuse to do so? These proven head coaches like Shaka Smart and even a guy like Thad Matta at Ohio State are struggling at elite programs. John Thompson III is a proven head coach. He's been to a Final Four like Smart. However, Georgtown is 0-4 in their conference and won't make the NCAA's again this year. Lon Kruger at Oklahoma and Tom Izzo are unlikely to make the NCAA Tournament this year. Tom Crean has 5 losses at Indiana and his team was supposed to be really good. Steve Alford didn't make the tournament last year and now UCLA is #2 in the nation. Jimbo Fisher had never been a head coach and within a few years he won a title at Florida State. The folks at Syracuse believe Hop is the perfect fit, and they will give Hop the opportunity he's earned to take over the program.

 

[CaptainJ]

Hopkins is the Telenova NYCSUgrad spoke of...or even Telemundo. Spicoli is right though, anything is possible, like that guy on The Wire who said sheeeeeit said.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I never said change was impossible. You're saying what I'm saying. It's unlikely, and that Hopkins will be the coach. We agree. I think you're not giving the Chancellor enough power. He certainly has a lot more at Syracuse than the AD. We're not a football factory, and the culture is not like it is at Alabama, Florida, Ohio State or USC. We don't pay our coaches $5-9 MM annually either. Syracuse doesnt just fire people for a bad year or two or 5 (Coach P). They give then ample time to get the job done. They don't go out and hire big name coaches and pay them crazy salaries. They give assistant coaches a chance-like Boeheim, Pasqualoni, Scott Shafer, and now Hopkins. They hired Marone over proven head coaches like Skip Holtz. That's the philosophy up there. There's no reason to throw away buyout money here, especially when they belive they have the right guy. You're saying there could be change? Why?

That is true re: the football factory factor. Good points here. Again, I don't think change will happen. The only issue I see is if Wildhack's comments back in the summer supporting Hop aren't actually true or if since then he has different ideas. Doubtful of course but then he would have to convince some ponying up of cash to move in a different direction. I just wouldn't be surprised if he would put feelers out there. I was also merely suggesting that in the scenarios where I have been privy to some intel from colleagues (not SU related); the Chancellors are more like pawns not kings.

 

[CousCuse]

I never said change was impossible. You're saying what I'm saying. It's unlikely, and that Hopkins will be the coach. We agree. I think you're not giving the Chancellor enough power. He certainly has a lot more at Syracuse than the AD. We're not a football factory, and the culture is not like it is at Alabama, Florida, Ohio State or USC. We don't pay our coaches $5-9 MM annually either. Syracuse doesnt just fire people for a bad year or two or 5 (Coach P). They give then ample time to get the job done. They don't go out and hire big name coaches and pay them crazy salaries. They give assistant coaches a chance-like Boeheim, Pasqualoni, Scott Shafer, and now Hopkins. They hired Matton over proven head coaches like Skip Holtz. That's the philosophy up there. There's no reason to throw away buyout money here, especially when they belive they have the right guy. You're saying there could be change? Why? What would compel Syracuse to do so?

Because the value of the Syracuse Basketball brand is so high that it doesn't seem like good business sense to go any way but the do and spend whatever it takes. Once something like that enters decline you can't just wave a wand over it to get it back.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Because the value of the Syracuse Basketball brand is so high that it doesn't seem like good business sense to go any way but the do and spend whatever it takes. Once something like that enters decline you can't just wave a wand over it to get it back.

Florida State was in decline, which is why they pushed Bowden out. Fisher comes in and wins a title. Same with Penn State under Paterno. They seem to have turned it around with Franklin. Virginia Tech with Beamer was in decline I think won 10 games this year under a new coach.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I was also merely suggesting that in the scenarios where I have been privy to some intel from colleagues (not SU related); the Chancellors are more like pawns not kings.

Agree, especially at schools like Penn State, Bama, Ohio State.

 

[CousCuse]

Florida State was in decline, which is why they pushed Bowden out. Fisher comes in and wins a title. Same with Penn State under Paterno. They seem to have turned it around with Franklin. Virginia Tech with Beamer was in decline I think won 10 games this year under a new coach.

SU BB isn't in decline. One of the reasons it is struggling a little recently is because of the impending coaching change. Bowden, Paterno and Beamer were all old and looked and acted old. Not so with the ageless one. Fisher replaced Tommy as a coach in waiting when the ACC was FSU and the 7 dwarfs. Franklin and Fuentes all ready earned their bones as head coaches.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

SU BB isn't in decline. Bowden, Paterno and Beamer were all old and looked and acted old. Not so with the ageless one. Fisher replaced Tommy as a coach in waiting when the ACC was FSU and the 7 dwarfs. Franklin and Fuentes all ready earned their bones as head coaches.

Agree. Coach Boehiem just took Syracuse to the Final Four last year. Hope he leads us even further this year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This is an odd thread. Having inherited contracts signed from previous owners I now own those. Contracts get easily broken when one party doesn't have the ability to fight back. If Wildhack wants a national search he'd have to convince his bosses the buyout to Hop is worth it. Part of Mikes leverage is the buyout

Yup. Wasn't even the point of the thread. I wanted to discuss the negatives of getting out of the deal (that's why he's locked in) and how he can be successful going forward. It went downhill quickly, but the good part is we have won two games since I posted the OP.

 

[RF2044]

RF2044 said: ↑
Do new AD's come in and sometimes hire new coaches?

Sometimes yes. But not in cases where a HCIW deal is already done.

D0 contracts that are in place with coaches get broken at times?

Sometimes, again not in cases like ours.

Would our buy out penalty if Hopkins weren't hired be in the $2-5m range?

Probably.

Would not honoring Hopkins's deal preclude other top notch candidates from considering SU?

No, but would likely harm Syracuse's reputation and would cost Syracuse money.

Again, why would Syracuse look anywhere else when they have their top candidate locked up?

Thank you--see, now wasn't that easy? And your responses to the affirmative show that my takes were germane to the original topic that the OP wanted to discuss, before the thread devolved into a "will he get the job or won't he" off-topic scrum:

Yup. Wasn't even the point of the thread. I wanted to discuss the negatives of getting out of the deal (that's why he's locked in) and how he can be successful going forward. It went downhill quickly, but the good part is we have won two games since I posted the OP.

As for why we might look elsewhere--noone was suggesting that we would. The points above might seem like parliamentary procedure, but those discussion points tied back to what would happen IF we got out of the deal [i.e., the point of the OP].

It was a good discussion, prior to getting hijacked.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Exactly. We won't. Hop is our next coach. Thank you.