Class of 2016 OL Liam Smith (NJ) Verbal to Duke

[wfschrec]

It makes me legitimately laugh that you care to piss me off like I honestly really care. There are a lot of things in life way more important to me than Scott Shafer as SU HC. If you actually like the product on the field these past two years I hope you continue flushing you money down the toilet like I have for season tickets.


My god I am fair and you can disagree with me all you want I don't make statements in an echo chamber. When praise is warranted I am there when blame is deserved I am there. Scott Shafer isn't getting 10 years to piss me off he either wins and deserves more time or he fails and we get a new HC. Sorry you can't piss me off pal.

I don't know ... you sound pissed

 

[bcubs9497]

It makes me legitimately laugh that you care to piss me off like I honestly really care. There are a lot of things in life way more important to me than Scott Shafer as SU HC. If you actually like the product on the field these past two years I hope you continue flushing you money down the toilet like I have for season tickets.


My god I am fair and you can disagree with me all you want I don't make statements in an echo chamber. When praise is warranted I am there when blame is deserved I am there. Scott Shafer isn't getting 10 years to piss me off he either wins and deserves more time or he fails and we get a new HC. Sorry you can't piss me off pal.

I would say you're impatient, not fair.

It took Cutcliffe 6 years to get Duke where it's at now. It took him 6 years to get Ole Miss to the Cotton Bowl.

I think we can give Coach Shafer a bit more than 2-3 years to turn this program around.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't know ... you sound pissed

I like you as a poster trust me when somebody actually posts stuff like that it makes me laugh. We are all SU fanatics and if ticking someone you don't know off gives you pleasure I am happy and really laugh at it.

 

[Alsacs]

I would say you're impatient, not fair.

It took Cutcliffe 6 years to get Duke where it's at now. It took him 6 years to get Ole Miss to the Cotton Bowl.

I think we can give Coach Shafer a bit more than 2-3 years to turn this program around.

I can't tell you how to think and vice-versa. When credit is deserved I give it when blame is warranted I give it. I don't believe I am impatient as this is a make or break season. Our schedule is ripe for 6 wins if we don't win 6 games it won't matter.

 

[wfschrec]

I like you as a poster trust me when somebody actually posts stuff like that it makes me laugh. We are all SU fanatics and if ticking someone you don't know off gives you pleasure I am happy and really laugh at it.

I get paid to give women pleasure ... not tick other people off ... too soon?

 

[anomander]

Plus - we have it good authority that the way we are recruiting is a good strategy. The atmosphere that SS and co have created is compelling to families (and it's authentic). I can't get that video of Marrone with Ishaq out of my memory. Ineffective.

How do we have it on good authority?

 

[anomander]

Not the same thing. And I'm not sure how much the IPF helped until it was actually built and in use (this class). Last time this came up I went through and looked at the class rankings. Marrone had one of the worst in our history in his first couple of seasons. We have been on average 10 spots better and are competing with Florida and Wisconsin instead of Akron, but yeah - "not changed that much". Also - a legitimate chance at Washington is huge.

You guys are right in that it needs to be better and that SS has some advantages that Marrone never had (White, ACC, IPF, he seems to like recruiting).

I'm not saying we can say they are great recruiters. But competent for sure.

But you also have to consider that 3 of our top recruits; Edouard, Cooper, and KJ never made it here. Wonder where the rankings would be then? And this year we are still sweating out Strickland, and Blair, our 2 top commits. Notice a trend here? I think it's fair to say we were able to get the top kids in each of his class because they were academic risks that scared off a lot of the top competition.

Just my opinion, but I think his recruiting abilities are still very much up in the air. I said in another thread a lot will tell on how we close with Washington, Smith, and some of our bigger targets, not how we close on the guys with no other offers. I will reserve judgement until after the 2016 cycle is complete.

 

[TheCusian]

How do we have it on good authority?

Parents first-hand accounts of how their kids were recruited.

 

[anomander]

Parents first-hand accounts of how their kids were recruited.

Ya but then we have Robert Washington, who had someone very close to him speak out against it. We just can't discount 1 source because it may not be what we want to hear. I look at it like we aren't used to recruiting elite prospects. Their high maintenance. Does it show inexperience? I think that opened up a lot of questions.

 

[TheCusian]

But you also have to consider that 3 of our top recruits; Edouard, Cooper, and KJ never made it here. Wonder where the rankings would be then? And this year we are still sweating out Strickland, and Blair, our 2 top commits. Notice a trend here? I think it's fair to say we were able to get the top kids in each of his class because they were academic risks that scared off a lot of the top competition.

Just my opinion, but I think his recruiting abilities are still very much up in the air. I said in another thread a lot will tell on how we close with Washington, Smith, and some of our bigger targets, not how we close on the guys with no other offers. I will reserve judgement until after the 2016 cycle is complete.

That trend stretches back into every coach who's coached here and everywhere else that actually plays by the rules in recruiting. Recruiting rankings are always a weird way of figuring out how good a recruiter we have. It's a faulty metric - like the star system. It's mostly right, generally, if you don't look to close and squint. But it's what we have that's easy to compare without going player by player and evaluating stats for them after they conclude their time here.

What if Zaire becomes a 1st rnd pick and a Pro-bowl linebacker? What does that do to the perception of Shafer's recruiting ability? It's a moot point - as that's not how we evaluate these things (sadly).

Plus - Strickland was offered late by Georgia and hung on. Not exactly "scared off"...

I agree that his recruiting ability is very much up in the air. But if you go by the numbers, he's better and that's in black and white. We will see how it all unfolds. I hope we find out on the 25th.

(as always - much respect)

 

[TheCusian]

Ya but then we have Robert Washington, who had someone very close to him speak out against it. We just can't discount 1 source because it may not be what we want to hear. I look at it like we aren't used to recruiting elite prospects. Their high maintenance. Does it show inexperience? I think that opened up a lot of questions.

I'm not discounting that source or account. I was peeved that it came to that and wish our guys didn't get exposed like that. But just like I can't discount that - you can't write off the Clarks, Shy's Dad, and TD's fam.

 

[Ringostar57]

I would say you're impatient, not fair.

It took Cutcliffe 6 years to get Duke where it's at now. It took him 6 years to get Ole Miss to the Cotton Bowl.

I think we can give Coach Shafer a bit more than 2-3 years to turn this program around.

It took Dick MacPherson 6 years to get Syracuse it's "magic" season of 11-0-1 in 1987. That 7th season led to 10-2 seasons in 88-89, top 10 program, recruiting a dozen what today would be 4 star athletes. Should never have left for New England!

 

[CuseLegacy]

But you also have to consider that 3 of our top recruits; Edouard, Cooper, and KJ never made it here. Wonder where the rankings would be then? And this year we are still sweating out Strickland, and Blair, our 2 top commits. Notice a trend here? I think it's fair to say we were able to get the top kids in each of his class because they were academic risks that scared off a lot of the top competition.

Just my opinion, but I think his recruiting abilities are still very much up in the air. I said in another thread a lot will tell on how we close with Washington, Smith, and some of our bigger targets, not how we close on the guys with no other offers. I will reserve judgement until after the 2016 cycle is complete.

Hmm... Ishmael, Ward, Franklin I don't seem to remember any of them being academic risks and their rankings weren't too shabby. Yes the staff has taken a shot on some kids with academic issues but the reward can be a getting a good kid... like Shy.

$hy @shycullen24 · Apr 7
Man shout out to Syracuse for being that school for believing in me when no other school took the opportunity!

 

[PhatOrange]

Lets be honest, if Ishmael played the ‘game’ and pimped himself he would've been an easy 4 star rated kid on every site. Fact is he was always a lock to Syracuse (thank you McDonald) and played things close to the vest.

Zaire Franklin sort of got the same treatment from the services.

DaQuan Kelly was a 3 star when he committed to Syracuse and then they bumped him to 4 star after he flipped to Ped State.

And then there was the other kid from Florida who committed to Syracuse - the 2 star unknown who they bumped up to 4 star status (maybe 5 star) and ended up at Texas.

You can see from the late attempts at poaching our kids that our low rated kids have some value.

 

[anomander]

Hmm... Ishmael, Ward, Franklin I don't seem to remember any of them being academic risks and their rankings weren't too shabby. Yes the staff has taken a shot on some kids with academic issues but the reward can be a getting a good kid... like Shy.

$hy @shycullen24 · Apr 7
Man shout out to Syracuse for being that school for believing in me when no other school took the opportunity!

Those are 3 great recruits. Probably the best 3 wee got in terms of beating out/holding off other schools. But does they make anyone great? That's a stretch. And do disrespect to Shy, but he hasn't even stepped foot on campus yet. Who knows how he will turn out?

 

[wfschrec]

Those are 3 great recruits. Probably the best 3 wee got in terms of beating out/holding off other schools. But does they make anyone great? That's a stretch. And do disrespect to Shy, but he hasn't even stepped foot on campus yet. Who knows how he will turn out?

Ok and guys like Hilliard who were supposed to be jewels of the 2012 class never played a down ... it happens in every class. But at least those 3 are on campus and on the roster and in two cases saw solid time as true frosh ... the fact that Ishmael ended up getting the time that he did on the field ahead of guys that have been on campus for a while should tell you all you need to know.

 

[anomander]

Ok and guys like Hilliard who were supposed to be jewels of the 2012 class never played a down ... it happens in every class. But at least those 3 are on campus and on the roster and in two cases saw solid time as true frosh ... the fact that Ishmael ended up getting the time that he did on the field ahead of guys that have been on campus for a while should tell you all you need to know.

I'm not doubting for a second that Ish is going to be a stud. I have loved him from day 1. All i'm saying does 1 recruit like that, or even 3, make this staff great? I don't even want to compare to Marrone anymore, because if we want to get back to where we think we should be then the results have to improve. It's time to start comparing us to the rest of the ACC, and for the most part these last 2 years we have been far behind. The reason I started this in this thread was because of Liam Smith. All i'm saying is if we want to improve, and if we want to call Shafer and his staff great at recruiting (like some have), then we're going to have to start getting kids like Smith.

 

[anomander]

Who knows maybe I expect too much, but I can't be the only one who is not satisfied with our recruiting results, and feel Shafer has got far too much credit for the past 2 classes (considering those who actually made it).

 

[bcubs9497]

I'm not doubting for a second that Ish is going to be a stud. I have loved him from day 1. All i'm saying does 1 recruit like that, or even 3, make this staff great? I don't even want to compare to Marrone anymore, because if we want to get back to where we think we should be then the results have to improve. It's time to start comparing us to the rest of the ACC, and for the most part these last 2 years we have been far behind. The reason I started this in this thread was because of Liam Smith. All i'm saying is if we want to improve, and if we want to call Shafer and his staff great at recruiting (like some have), then we're going to have to start getting kids like Smith.

I'm going to go back and watch Liam's highlights. Honestly, I didn't see a whole lot that really impressed me.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Those are 3 great recruits. Probably the best 3 wee got in terms of beating out/holding off other schools. But does they make anyone great? That's a stretch. And do disrespect to Shy, but he hasn't even stepped foot on campus yet. Who knows how he will turn out?

True but then who knows how any kid will turn out. They can be hyped to the hilt during the recruiting process and not succeed as a D1 player... hello Mr. Funderburke.

All I am suggesting is that it isn't fair to compare Shafer to Cutcliffe in recruiting. Cutcliffes' staff has had years to develop recruiting connections and build relationships. In fact the majority of the HCs and their staffs in the ACC have had years to develop recruiting connections/relationships.

 

[TheCusian]

Who knows maybe I expect too much, but I can't be the only one who is not satisfied with our recruiting results, and feel Shafer has got far too much credit for the past 2 classes (considering those who actually made it).

I'm not. But it will take a lot to get me there. I'm just arguing that Shafer and co are better than Marrone and that recruiting is headed in the right direction.

(I don't know why your hung up on kids who don't make it. The ranking # is based off of loi. Lots of kids at lots of schools don't qualify. They get to keep their rankings despite kids who don't qualify.)

 

[Alsacs]

I'm not doubting for a second that Ish is going to be a stud. I have loved him from day 1. All i'm saying does 1 recruit like that, or even 3, make this staff great? I don't even want to compare to Marrone anymore, because if we want to get back to where we think we should be then the results have to improve. It's time to start comparing us to the rest of the ACC, and for the most part these last 2 years we have been far behind. The reason I started this in this thread was because of Liam Smith. All i'm saying is if we want to improve, and if we want to call Shafer and his staff great at recruiting (like some have), then we're going to have to start getting kids like Smith.

This statement is so the truth I wish more people would read it and understand. We all want Scott Shafer to succeed but we shouldn't blow sunshine when the results don't match that. If this staff wants to be called good at recruiting we need to win more battles like Smith. I am not saying SS sucks at recruiting he just mediocre based on the results thus far. Which compared to offensive identity these last two years on a curve makes the recruiting look better.

 

[CuseLegacy]

This statement is so the truth I wish more people would read it and understand. We all want Scott Shafer to succeed but we shouldn't blow sunshine when the results don't match that. If this staff wants to be called good at recruiting we need to win more battles like Smith. I am not saying SS sucks at recruiting he just mediocre based on the results thus far. Which compared to offensive identity these last two years on a curve makes the recruiting look better.

Truth is like beauty it's in the eye of the beholder.

 

[TheCusian]

This statement is so the truth I wish more people would read it and understand. We all want Scott Shafer to succeed but we shouldn't blow sunshine when the results don't match that. If this staff wants to be called good at recruiting we need to win more battles like Smith. I am not saying SS sucks at recruiting he just mediocre based on the results thus far. Which compared to offensive identity these last two years on a curve makes the recruiting look better.

You know how crazy that sounds coming off a season where we snagged two good gets from Florida and Wiscy? We've won battles like that. And we are maybe 50% chance of landing a top RB. No one is blowing sunshine. These are facts.

Smith isn't that good. He's a good get and I wish we had him - but he's not far and away better than any of the top linemen we picked up the last two seasons.

 

[Alsacs]

True but then who knows how any kid will turn out. They can be hyped to the hilt during the recruiting process and not succeed as a D1 player... hello Mr. Funderburke.

All I am suggesting is that it isn't fair to compare Shafer to Cutcliffe in recruiting. Cutcliffes' staff has had years to develop recruiting connections and build relationships. In fact the majority of the HCs and their staffs in the ACC have had years to develop recruiting connections/relationships.

How much time?
Dave Doeren came to NC State the same time Scott Shafer was hired to be the SU coach.According to ESPN and 247 in 2014 NC State had 34th best recruiting class and 7th in the ACC and in 2015 had the 30th best recruiting class and 6th in the ACC.
Syracuse in 2014 had the 50th in the nation and 10th in the ACC AND in 2015 we had 57th ranked in the nation and 12 in the ACC.


Nobody is calling Doeren great at recruiting. Cutcliffe had connections from his OC days at Tennessee and time as HC at Ole Miss. Plus, a Duke education appeals to some recruits.