Opinion on East Regionals

[CaptainJ]

I was curious if I had missed any threads about us not being able to play in the East Regionals of the NCAA tournament this year. Is it that folks don't think we're going far enough to care? Or is that whatever cash profit is taken in makes it worth potentially disadvantaging the team? I actually logged specifically to see if this was being discussed. I'm just curious what the thoughts and opinions of others regarding this are. In later parts of past seasons Id often see threads where some people cared about the East as much or more than the seed or opponents.

 

[cto]

Teams are not allowed to play in the NCAAs in their home arenas. That is why we were sent to the west regional in SLC in 2010 when we were a #1 seed (when the east regioanls were played in the Dome).

 

[CaptainJ]

Teams are not allowed to play in the NCAAs in their home arenas. That is why we were sent to the west regional in SLC in 2010 when we were a #1 seed (when the east regioanls were played in the Dome).

I understand that, but my point was why would whomever makes that decision(to rent out the dome) do that to our team? I'm guessing I don't understand the amount of profit that comes out of this, but hopefully folks can understand why a fan would ask such a question. I realize it isn't just us either who does this. I was just curious if I'm the only one who has mixed feelings about being BANNED from the East Regionals or if there are others like me out there...somewhere.

I'm also curious if there are schools with big enough arenas that actually forego the lucrative offer for this or other reasons? Again, I like to ask the taboo questions that and it isn't my intent to offend anyone. I logged on here specifically hoping someone else might be discussing this. The world would sing, if I were king.

 

[PoppyHart]

While we are certainly more prominent in the rotation than most, I can't think of a school off the top of my head with a sufficient-sized arena (~16K +) that hasn't hosted during the first two weekends, whether intentionally or not.

Also, they seem to like placing the regionals in larger, domed spaces, and the East coast doesn't offer many (or any?) options outside the Carrier Dome.

 

[iommi]

I agree with what you are saying, Captain. It really is an interesting question...and I don't know the answer because I don't know how much revenue we take in as Regional host. That being said: It is a business. We don't get to the Regionals as often as I wish we did, so perhaps losing the chance of playing there is outweighed by the financial windfall of hosting? I'm quite sure JB has at least been brought in for advisement of the issue and if he had serious qualms about it we would not be in the mix as a possible host.

 

[cto]

I understand that, but my point was why would whomever makes that decision(to rent out the dome) do that to our team? I'm guessing I don't understand the amount of profit that comes out of this, but hopefully folks can understand why a fan would ask such a question. I realize it isn't just us either who does this. I was just curious if I'm the only one who has mixed feelings about being BANNED from the East Regionals or if there are others like me out there...somewhere.

I'm also curious if there are schools with big enough arenas that actually forego the lucrative offer for this or other reasons? Again, I like to ask the taboo questions that and it isn't my intent to offend anyone. I logged on here specifically hoping someone else might be discussing this. The world would sing, if I were king.

I'm sorry that I misunderstood your original question. We actually SEEK to host the regionals. Schools/cities have to apply to be selected. Hosting an event like that is VERY GOOD for a city the size of Syracuse. It really helps the local economy...i.e., hotels, restaurants, sales tax revenue, etc.

 

[jgeorge322]

The pod system helps deemphasize the negative side of this as well

 

[CorduroyG]

Let's play our games at Manley this year

 

[cto]

Let's play our games at Manley this year

No more court at Manley. No more bleachers at Manley. It is wall-to-wall field turf for the football team.

 

[orange79]

There is no guarantee, any year, that we will play in the East Region. When the presentation is made to the NCAA (or whoever handles it for them), it is years in advance. No one knows what the team is going to be like.

And the one time we played in the Dome in the NCAA's, it didn't turn out so well (see Robinson, David).

 

[sutomcat]

I was curious if I had missed any threads about us not being able to play in the East Regionals of the NCAA tournament this year. Is it that folks don't think we're going far enough to care? Or is that whatever cash profit is taken in makes it worth potentially disadvantaging the team? I actually logged specifically to see if this was being discussed. I'm just curious what the thoughts and opinions of others regarding this are. In later parts of past seasons Id often see threads where some people cared about the East as much or more than the seed or opponents.

We only host a regional once every 5 years or so. Let's say we make the NCAA tournament roughly 90% of the time and let's say we get seeded in the East 40% of the time we get a bid. And lastly, let's say we make it to the Sweet Sixteen 50% of the time we play in the Eastern regional.

Given all that, the probability that hosting Eastern regionals in the Dome will actually affect Syracuse is small...with the rough numbers I just threw out, it is less than 20%. When you consider the money the university and CNY region make hosting the regionals, I think the decision whether to host is a no brainer.

 

[CaptainJ]

We only host a regional once every 5 years or so. Let's say we make the NCAA tournament roughly 90% of the time and let's say we get seeded in the East 40% of the time we get a bid. And lastly, let's say we make it to the Sweet Sixteen 50% of the time we play in the Eastern regional.

Given all that, the probability that hosting Eastern regionals in the Dome will actually affect Syracuse is small...with the rough numbers I just threw out, it is less than 20%. When you consider the money the university and CNY region make hosting the regionals, I think the decision whether to host is a no brainer.

I'd like to thank everyone for their effort in helping me to understand this better. I doubt I'm the only one in the dark about some of the ins and outs of this.

To Tomcat specifically, (and a couple of others who implied similar thinking), are you saying we arent banned from the East region altogether and could play the first two games there and then be shipped elsewhere? That seems like it would be a logistical mess. So unless I am misunderstanding what I initially read elsewhere, I thought we were banned from the East altogether and you'd need to remove the last step of that math, leaving an even more sizable percentage to consider . Correct me if I am wrong, someone.

Of course I am happy for the local taco bells and super 8's, but again I am posting as a FAN(of the team) first and foremost. It isnt like the team doesn't help those business many more times throughout the season. I understand money rules this world, but I still dont like the idea of the team being banned from the East in order for someone else(I haven't heard anything about the school, but my point wouldn't change) to make money. At least I now understand that once out of every 4 or 5 years my team will be barred from the East at a time in the season when every small advantage can be a matter of life or death. I really hadn't given it much thought until the other day when I read it in writing in an email and it sparked something inside of me.

 

[orange79]

I'd like to thank everyone for their effort in helping me to understand this better. I doubt I'm the only one in the dark about some of the ins and outs of this.

To Tomcat specifically, (and a couple of others who implied similar thinking), are you saying we arent banned from the East region altogether and could play the first two games there and then be shipped elsewhere? That seems like it would be a logistical mess. So unless I am misunderstanding what I initially read elsewhere, I thought we were banned from the East altogether and you'd need to remove the last step of that math, leaving an even more sizable percentage to consider . Correct me if I am wrong, someone.

Of course I am happy for the local taco bells and super 8's, but again I am posting as a FAN(of the team) first and foremost. It isnt like the team doesn't help those business many more times throughout the season. I understand money rules this world, but I still dont like the idea of the team being banned from the East in order for someone else(I haven't heard anything about the school, but my point wouldn't change) to make money. At least I now understand that once out of every 4 or 5 years my team will be barred from the East at a time in the season when every small advantage can be a matter of life or death. I really hadn't given it much thought until the other day when I read it in writing in an email and it sparked something inside of me.

Some years ago (I don't remember how many), it was ruled that you cannot play an NCAA game on your home court (unless, of course, the Final Four is played on your home floor and you happen to make it). Home court is defined as a court on which you play (technically 'host') three or more games.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I'd like to thank everyone for their effort in helping me to understand this better. I doubt I'm the only one in the dark about some of the ins and outs of this.

To Tomcat specifically, (and a couple of others who implied similar thinking), are you saying we arent banned from the East region altogether and could play the first two games there and then be shipped elsewhere? That seems like it would be a logistical mess. So unless I am misunderstanding what I initially read elsewhere, I thought we were banned from the East altogether and you'd need to remove the last step of that math, leaving an even more sizable percentage to consider . Correct me if I am wrong, someone.

SU cannot be assigned to the East Regional Bracket. Meaning that we cannot play our regional games in the Dome.

However, since the NCAA started the POD system years ago, we can play our 1st and 2nd round games in either Pittsburgh or Columbus.

 

[Bayside44]

I'd like to thank everyone for their effort in helping me to understand this better. I doubt I'm the only one in the dark about some of the ins and outs of this.

To Tomcat specifically, (and a couple of others who implied similar thinking), are you saying we arent banned from the East region altogether and could play the first two games there and then be shipped elsewhere? That seems like it would be a logistical mess. So unless I am misunderstanding what I initially read elsewhere, I thought we were banned from the East altogether and you'd need to remove the last step of that math, leaving an even more sizable percentage to consider . Correct me if I am wrong, someone.

Of course I am happy for the local taco bells and super 8's, but again I am posting as a FAN(of the team) first and foremost. It isnt like the team doesn't help those business many more times throughout the season. I understand money rules this world, but I still dont like the idea of the team being banned from the East in order for someone else(I haven't heard anything about the school, but my point wouldn't change) to make money. At least I now understand that once out of every 4 or 5 years my team will be barred from the East at a time in the season when every small advantage can be a matter of life or death. I really hadn't given it much thought until the other day when I read it in writing in an email and it sparked something inside of me.

That Buffalo advantage didn't exactly knock it out of the park for us...

 

[cto]

I'd like to thank everyone for their effort in helping me to understand this better. I doubt I'm the only one in the dark about some of the ins and outs of this.

To Tomcat specifically, (and a couple of others who implied similar thinking), are you saying we arent banned from the East region altogether and could play the first two games there and then be shipped elsewhere? That seems like it would be a logistical mess. So unless I am misunderstanding what I initially read elsewhere, I thought we were banned from the East altogether and you'd need to remove the last step of that math, leaving an even more sizable percentage to consider . Correct me if I am wrong, someone.

Of course I am happy for the local taco bells and super 8's, but again I am posting as a FAN(of the team) first and foremost. It isnt like the team doesn't help those business many more times throughout the season. I understand money rules this world, but I still dont like the idea of the team being banned from the East in order for someone else(I haven't heard anything about the school, but my point wouldn't change) to make money. At least I now understand that once out of every 4 or 5 years my team will be barred from the East at a time in the season when every small advantage can be a matter of life or death. I really hadn't given it much thought until the other day when I read it in writing in an email and it sparked something inside of me.

Because of the POD system, we can play the first two rounds in the east in a place like Buffalo (as we did in 2010 before going to SLC for the West Regionial. You don't have to play the first and second games within the region to which you are assigned.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

However, since the NCAA started the POD system years ago, we can play our 1st and 2nd round games in either Pittsburgh or Columbus.

If you want to get technical, aren't the dopes at the NCAA calling it the 2nd and 3rd round now. Who are they trying to fool?

 

[sabach]

The reason why we wanted the East so bad recently is because the regional was in Boston and MSG where we knew we would have huge crowd advantages. We will never know if playing in the East regional (had it not been in the Dome) would have helped us the year Arinze went down when we were in SLC and the East regional was in the Dome.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If you want to get technical, aren't the dopes at the NCAA calling it the 2nd and 3rd round now. Who are they trying to fool?

The way this season might turnout, we may be playing a 1st round game.

 

[orange79]

If you want to get technical, aren't the dopes at the NCAA calling it the 2nd and 3rd round now. Who are they trying to fool?

They will always be the PIG, 1st round and 2nd round to me. I ain't changing.

 

[PoppyHart]

There is no guarantee, any year, that we will play in the East Region. When the presentation is made to the NCAA (or whoever handles it for them), it is years in advance. No one knows what the team is going to be like.

And the one time we played in the Dome in the NCAA's, it didn't turn out so well (see Robinson, David).

We also hosted in 1987.

 

[Moontan]

While we are certainly more prominent in the rotation than most, I can't think of a school off the top of my head with a sufficient-sized arena (~16K +) that hasn't hosted during the first two weekends, whether intentionally or not.

Also, they seem to like placing the regionals in larger, domed spaces, and the East coast doesn't offer many (or any?) options outside the Carrier Dome.

The Georgia Dome says "Hello".
The domed baseball stadia in Florida wouldn't make good options.

 

[CaptainJ]

i guess i understand now, though im still not as up on the pod as some of you i guess. Still think this is something that gets glossed over without serious thought in a game of numbers. I guess i see where the more important numbers lie.

 

[llandz]

The pod system is to try to keep the teams as close to home as possible the first two games and to limit travel times. The pods have no bearing on which region you are in, other than the teams that you play in your pod are in the same region that you were assigned to. There will also be teams in your pod city, that you do not play, that are from another region. Obviously some teams have to travel, and it is usually done in some sort of order of the regional seedings with deference towards the higher seeded teams (top 16).

So let's say, for example, Syracuse ends up in the West region, and we are the #2 seed. That year there are first round games in Albany, NY. We would play our first two games in Albany, NY. We would have the teams that line up with our seeding from the West region play in Albany. So our first game would be against the #15 seed in the west region. Now let's say the #15 seed in the west is Utah. Then Utah is obviously going to have to travel. They are just lucky to be in the tournament. Syracuse, because they are one of the top 16 teams, would get to stay near home. Now also in Albany would be four teams from another region, let's say the East region. Those games and the West games are not at all related other than they are in the same arena in the same city. After the Albany weekend, the teams then travel to their respective regions for the next two games. So at that point, Syracuse would have to travel out West to where those regional semi final and final games are being held. The east teams would travel to Syracuse if that is where the Eastern Regional games are to be played.

It is very complicated. I hope this helps you to understand the basic concept. Even what I have laid out is not how it always happens.

 

[CaptainJ]

The pod system is to try to keep the teams as close to home as possible the first two games and to limit travel times. The pods have no bearing on which region you are in, other than the teams that you play in your pod are in the same region that you were assigned to. There will also be teams in your pod city, that you do not play, that are from another region. Obviously some teams have to travel, and it is usually done in some sort of order of the regional seedings with deference towards the higher seeded teams (top 16).

So let's say, for example, Syracuse ends up in the West region, and we are the #2 seed. That year there are first round games in Albany, NY. We would play our first two games in Albany, NY. We would have the teams that line up with our seeding from the West region play in Albany. So our first game would be against the #15 seed in the west region. Now let's say the #15 seed in the west is Utah. Then Utah is obviously going to have to travel. They are just lucky to be in the tournament. Syracuse, because they are one of the top 16 teams, would get to stay near home. Now also in Albany would be four teams from another region, let's say the East region. Those games and the West games are not at all related other than they are in the same arena in the same city. After the Albany weekend, the teams then travel to their respective regions for the next two games. So at that point, Syracuse would have to travel out West to where those regional semi final and final games are being held. The east teams would travel to Syracuse if that is where the Eastern Regional games are to be played.

It is very complicated. I hope this helps you to understand the basic concept. Even what I have laid out is not how it always happens.

Thanks, much appreciated. I guess that takes some of the sting out of it, provided we get seeded high enough and don't make it to the sweet 16. I probably read about this before but my memory often is like a barrel of water which displaces something when something else is added. I can now see where the pros can outweigh the cons in this, unless one takes advantage of the ambiguity of those words as can be done more often with more flexible languages like Japanese(their songwriters have an easier go of it). I still reserve my right to sulk about this though, as a fan(atic) of the team.