OT: Dirk or Garnett?

[RandygoCuse]

You could make the case for either. I'm gonna go with Garnett. He's clearly a much better defender and although he can't shoot as well, his offensive game is well rounded. I feel like he's a better passer as well. Nowitzki did lead a team to a championship, with not too much talent against a more talented team so I can definitely understand those who think it's Dirk.

 

[RandygoCuse]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Jerry West
8. Larry Bird
9. Lebron James
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Tim Duncan
12. Shaquille O'Neill
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Moses Malone
15. Julius Irving
16. Karl Malone
17. Alan Iverson
18. Elvin Hayes
19. Bob Pettit
20. Bob Cousy
21. John Stockton
22. Wes Unseld
23. Dwight Howard
24. Tiny Archibald
25. Dennis Rodman
26. John Havlicek
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Willis Reed
29. Charles Barkley
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Isaiah Thomas
32. James Worthy
33. Dave Bing
34. Bill Bradley
35. Dwayne Wade

So, compared to that list, I could see you slotting Kevin Garnett in somewhere around 25, but maybe lower. Look at the guys you are comparing him and Nowitzki to.

Good list, but I'd have Elgin Baylor on it. And should Bill Bradley be on it?

 

[Eric15]

Also, I feel like George Mikan (the greatest player in the first decade of the NBA) has to be amongst the Top 35.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Howard?

He's led the league in rebounding 5 of the last 6 years. His head is all screwed up from the last couple years, but talent wise, he could put it together in Houston and win a championship or two in the next few years. That would completely rehabilitate his image and place among the all-time greats.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think I would put KG over Karl Malone. Though his durability was amazing. I would definitely put KG over AI, Wes Unseld, Dwight Howard, Tiny, and Rodman. For sure. Rodman was a great defender and rebounder, but so was KG (Rodman probably better on the glass, maybe better as a defender) but offensively it's not close. Probably Elvin Hayes too. Back half of the teens seems good for KG.

Rodman's got a fist full of rings - from 2 teams, and was the leading post defender and rebounder on the team with the best regular season record of all time. He led the league in rebounding for a ridiculous number of years. Not bad for a skinny guy who was maybe 6-8.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Good list, but I'd have Elgin Baylor on it. And should Bill Bradley be on it?

Good call on Elgin Baylor. Bradley won two rings and was a better player than people give him credit for. Walt Frazier probably deserves a spot on that list somewhere, too.

 

[Knicks411]

Rodman's got a fist full of rings - from 2 teams, and was the leading post defender and rebounder on the team with the best regular season record of all time. He led the league in rebounding for a ridiculous number of years. Not bad for a skinny guy who was maybe 6-8.

Rodman was really good, don't get me wrong. But I don't think he's one of the 25 best players ever, and I'd take KG over him without thinking. Rodman may be underrated because people automatically think of the hair/tats etc, but the dude could ball for sure. The rings are great, but if KG was the 4 for the 96-98 Bulls, i thinnk he''d have 3 as well. (Setting aside the bad bo years)

I think KG vs Malone is a very good debate.

 

[AZOrange]

Rodman was really good, don't get me wrong. But I don't think he's one of the 25 best players ever, and I'd take KG over him without thinking. Rodman may be underrated because people automatically think of the hair/tats etc, but the dude could ball for sure. The rings are great, but if KG was the 4 for the 96-98 Bulls, i thinnk he''d have 3 as well. (Setting aside the bad bo years) I think KG vs Malone is a very good debate.

He's too one dimensional to be in the top 25, IMO. Barkley should probably be higher
Melos gotta be pretty close. He will probably be a top 5 scorer when all is said and done

 

[Shawn91111]

Agreed, Barkley is one of the top 5 PF's ever and for sure better and ranked higher than Rodman

 

[OrangeDW]

Bill Simmons book showed how overrated Worthy was. He was a slightly better version of Tom Chambers. Some of those guys don't even belong in the same sentence as KG and Dirk. Bill Bradley, Patrick Ewing, Dave Bing.

KG is probably right in the 20-25 range, and Dirk is probably in the 30-40s.

Bill Simmons is also a completely biased Celtics fan.

 

[OrangeDW]

Rodman's got a fist full of rings - from 2 teams, and was the leading post defender and rebounder on the team with the best regular season record of all time. He led the league in rebounding for a ridiculous number of years. Not bad for a skinny guy who was maybe 6-8.

Rodman also averaged like 4-7 points per game in his prime because he completely focused on chasing rebounds and defense.

I mean, if a power forward just completely ignored rebounding and focused on scoring and put up like 25 ppg but only 3 rebounds per game...they'd get killed for it!

Somehow Rodman gets a pass for basically not playing offense, other than positioning himself for offensive rebounds.

He was nowhere near as good of a player as Barkley or Isiah!

 

[Trueblue25]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Jerry West
8. Larry Bird
9. Lebron James
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Tim Duncan
12. Shaquille O'Neill
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Moses Malone
15. Julius Irving
16. Karl Malone
17. Alan Iverson
18. Elvin Hayes
19. Bob Pettit
20. Bob Cousy
21. John Stockton
22. Wes Unseld
23. Dwight Howard
24. Tiny Archibald
25. Dennis Rodman
26. John Havlicek
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Willis Reed
29. Charles Barkley
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Isaiah Thomas
32. James Worthy
33. Dave Bing
34. Bill Bradley
35. Dwayne Wade

So, compared to that list, I could see you slotting Kevin Garnett in somewhere around 25, but maybe lower. Look at the guys you are comparing him and Nowitzki to.

No Paul Pierce?

18th in all time scoring/21st in steals/10th in free throws/21st minutes played
Top 5 3 point shots made all time.
Finals MVP
10+ playoff years
2nd all time scoring leader in Celtic History
10x All Star
All NBA Freshman Team
2x Big 12 tournament MVP
All American
Nearly 20 Boston Celtics franchise individual records

Not to mention he was stabbed multiple times earlier in his career and came back, played better than ever.

 

[Eric15]

No Paul Pierce?

18th in all time scoring/21st in steals/10th in free throws/21st minutes played
Top 5 3 point shots made all time.
Finals MVP
10+ playoff years
2nd all time scoring leader in Celtic History
10x All Star
All NBA Freshman Team
2x Big 12 tournament MVP
All American
Nearly 20 Boston Celtics franchise individual records

Not to mention he was stabbed multiple times earlier in his career and came back, played better than ever.

Pierce is interesting, he's obviously a great player, but he only finished in the Top 10 of MVP voting in a season once in his entire career (he finished 7th in 2009). Not sure his college stats factor into the equation.

 

[Alsacs]

Pierce is maybe in the top 60 all-time. However, he isn't a top 25 or 50 IMO. He is the 2nd best SF of the 2000s behind Lebron James. Pierce was never all-NBA first team. I am a Celtics fan and Pierce was iron and I loved the guy(he is why I am rooting for Brooklyn in the playoffs) and he is probably a top 5 Boston Celtic all-time with Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Bob Cousy, and Kevin McHale, but I don't think he is an alltime top 25 guy. Pierce has always played his ass off, but he never won without KG. In 2002 he made the Eastern Finals in the worst Eastern Conference EVER that 2002 East was atrociously bad.

 

[OrangeDW]

No Paul Pierce?

18th in all time scoring/21st in steals/10th in free throws/21st minutes played
Top 5 3 point shots made all time.
Finals MVP
10+ playoff years
2nd all time scoring leader in Celtic History
10x All Star
All NBA Freshman Team
2x Big 12 tournament MVP
All American
Nearly 20 Boston Celtics franchise individual records

Not to mention he was stabbed multiple times earlier in his career and came back, played better than ever.

Pierce has been a very good player for a very long time. But I'm not sure he was ever a top 10 player in the league at any point. If he was, it was just barely.

 

[Trueblue25]

Pierce is maybe in the top 60 all-time. However, he isn't a top 25 or 50 IMO. He is the 2nd best SF of the 2000s behind Lebron James. Pierce was never all-NBA first team. I am a Celtics fan and Pierce was iron and I loved the guy(he is why I am rooting for Brooklyn in the playoffs) and he is probably a top 5 Boston Celtic all-time with Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Bob Cousy, and Kevin McHale, but I don't think he is an alltime top 25 guy. Pierce has always played his ass off, but he never won without KG. In 2002 he made the Eastern Finals in the worst Eastern Conference EVER that 2002 East was atrociously bad.

That's fair.

It's just above any player in sports in my life time he earned my respect and I've always bled Celtic green along Syracuse Orange.

Old School players like KG, Kobe and Pierce made the NBA worth watching for me and it's a shame to see them moving out and have this softer flashier generation move it.

 

[MikeSU02]

Rodman was really good, don't get me wrong. But I don't think he's one of the 25 best players ever, and I'd take KG over him without thinking. Rodman may be underrated because people automatically think of the hair/tats etc, but the dude could ball for sure. The rings are great, but if KG was the 4 for the 96-98 Bulls, i thinnk he''d have 3 as well. (Setting aside the bad bo years)

I think KG vs Malone is a very good debate.

You can't be one of the top 25 players of all time when you were never one of the best two players on your own team.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

He's too one dimensional to be in the top 25, IMO. Barkley should probably be higher
Melos gotta be pretty close. He will probably be a top 5 scorer when all is said and done

Melo will be a first ballot HOFer and will end up top 25 of all time... One of the better one on one scorers of all time.. PERIOD

 

[MikeSU02]

Melo will be a first ballot HOFer and will end up top 25 of all time... One of the better one on one scorers of all time.. PERIOD

I agree that Melo should end up in the top 25 (... I think, I may just be showing my bias). But if he gets a title as the alpha dog - he'll shoot there immediately and end up maybe higher. If he does it as a second banana, I think he is locked in there.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

I agree that Melo should end up in the top 25 (... I think, I may just be showing my bias). But if he gets a title as the alpha dog - he'll shoot there immediately and end up maybe higher. If he does it as a second banana, I think he is locked in there.

Absolutely if he gets a ring he catapults big time... Who is a better one on one scorer than him? MJ, Kobe, maybe LeBron but I dont think so... Not talking scorers... Just one on one, ISO scoring he is unbelievable

 

[IthacaMatt]

No Paul Pierce?

18th in all time scoring/21st in steals/10th in free throws/21st minutes played
Top 5 3 point shots made all time.
Finals MVP
10+ playoff years
2nd all time scoring leader in Celtic History
10x All Star
All NBA Freshman Team
2x Big 12 tournament MVP
All American
Nearly 20 Boston Celtics franchise individual records

Not to mention he was stabbed multiple times earlier in his career and came back, played better than ever.

Yes, Pierce belongs on there somewhere - above Garnett, IMO. I just came up with that list off the top of my head in about 10 minutes while sitting at work, so it's not like I put a ton of thought into it. The idea was, let me think of all the people I can who arguably are better than Garnett or Nowitzki, just for some perspective.

 

[Alsacs]

Bill Simmons is also a completely biased Celtics fan.

Says the person who probably didn't the read the freaking book. If you like Pro Basketball Bill Simmons book is among the best ever on the subject. He is unbias in his rankings. He put Magic Johnson rightfully above his Basketball Jesus Larry Bird. I mean he is bias for the Celtics in his articles and on TV, but the Book of Basketball was great in understanding the NBA game. It made realize how underrated some guys were like Moses Malone, John Havlicek, Tim Duncan, and how overrated other guys were like Elvin Hayes, Dominique Wilkins.

Your comment doesn't mean Simmons book is bias. He put Willis Reed above Dave Cowens, none of the Celtics players are overrated in his rankings.

 

[Knicks411]

Ha, well I think I've said this before, but I do like how Simmons put Magic ahead of Bird so he could claim no bias and make the 86 Celtics the best team of all time.

That being said, the book is really good. It's not the final word on rankings (Robert Horry), but he clearly did a ton of research.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Bill Simmons is also a completely biased Celtics fan.

Read the book.

 

[Alsacs]

Ha, well I think I've said this before, but I do like how Simmons put Magic ahead of Bird so he could claim no bias and make the 86 Celtics the best team of all time.

That being said, the book is really good. It's not the final word on rankings (Robert Horry), but he clearly did a ton of research.

I agree Horry shouldn't be in the top 96, but valued his role playing ability and rewarded the 7 rings. I don't think Horry is even a HOFer, but I respect the opinion.

Did you see the Bad Boys 30 for 30? Even Isiah Thomas who hated the Celtics admitted that 1986 was the best ever.
Bird, McHale, Parrish, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge was a superb starting 5.
Bill Walton(healthy for this season) backup C
Jerry Schting
Scott Wedman
was a nice bench.

I agree he wanted to give the 1986 Celtics love, but I think they are worthy of that spot. The 96 Bulls were overrated IMO the NBA had just expanded to Toronto and Vancouver and diluted the league even more. Jordan/Pippen/Rodman were studs, but Luc Longley, Toni Kukoc, Steve Kerr weren't that good. The Bulls 97 team was better than the 96 team because of Brian Williams(Bison Dele) giving them a legit post game which they never had in any other championship team. Simmons has since amended his all-time teams from 1. 86 Celtics 2. 96 Bulls 3. 87 Lakers 4. 89 Pistons. 5. 92 Bulls and put the 87 Lakers 2nd and 96 Bulls 3rd.

Knicks rank your top 5 teams of alltime. Don't use back to back seasons i.e. 87 Lakers, 88 Lakers, 91 Bulls, 92 Bulls.