OT - P5

[Crusty]

Now that the NCAA has granted autonomy to the Power 5 Conferences (P5), these conferences are in a position to dominate college football beyond anything previously contemplated. The NCAA will eventually have to grant virtually complete autonomy to the P5 and along with it huge amounts of money.

To me the analogy is the PGA Tour. Back in the day, the Professional Golfers Association of America was comprised of both club professionals and touring professionals – two groups with little in common and different agendas. Under threat of revolt, in 1968 the PGA split into two divisions, club pros and the Tournament Players Division, which took the name of the PGA Tour in 1975. The PGA Tour controls all of the money and is self-governing.

The Pr will be mindful that they don’t have a baseball type exemption from the Sherman Antitrust Act. However, as time goes by, the P5 will control the talent pool and will monopolize the big money.

The first step seems to be underway already with the movement to have all P5 OOC opponents from other P5 conferences. This is huge. It will eliminate the opportunity for non P5 teams to upset P5 teams and make it virtually impossible for non P5 teams to gain recognition. It will eliminate the $500,000 level payoffs to schools to offer their teams as fodder to the big boys. Over time, the money and talent gap will grow larger and larger.

Everyone hates the football national championship because it is so subjective. The P5 will have an answer to this. I would expect that the P5 will eventually create a P5 championship, which by default will be the National Championship. They can easily create a playoff system with Conference Champions. One school, determined by ranking, power index or some other method, would have a bye week. They will keep the money from a humongous TV contract.

Game, set and match.

Your thought?

 

[Moontan]

The first step seems to be underway already with the movement to have all P5 OOC opponents from other P5 conferences. This is huge. It will eliminate the opportunity for non P5 teams to upset P5 teams and make it virtually impossible for non P5 teams to gain recognition. It will eliminate the $500,000 level payoffs to schools to offer their teams as fodder to the big boys. Over time, the money and talent gap will grow larger and larger.

Games against FCS schools will continue. Many (most?) 1-AA budgets rely on these pay days. Programs in the Other-5 FCS conferences may be hardest hit by the trend to push for more intra-P-5 matchups.

Everyone hates the football national championship because it is so subjective. The P5 will have an answer to this. I would expect that the P5 will eventually create a P5 championship, which by default will be the National Championship. They can easily create a playoff system with Conference Champions. One school, determined by ranking, power index or some other method, would have a bye week. They will keep the money from a humongous TV contract.

Expect to see an 8-team playoff in 6- or 12- years, consisting of the P-5 champions plus 3 at-large selections.

 

[SmilinBob]

If it were under my control I'd get rid of divisions and play 10 conference games (keep 9 for the Big 12) and send the 5 champions of each conference to the playoffs. 8 teams overall in case we have a tie for teams with a record for example 12-1 possibly 11-2 overall...depending on circumstances. Let the "committee" pick the 3 that have to qualify for the non automatic spots. No conference championship games.

 

[sufandu]

I like the idea of getting rid of divisions but not the 10 conference games part. I like the variety that comes with good OOC games. I would go with 8 team conferences, play 7 conference games and 4 OOC. Each conference champion makes the playoff and the committee determines the seeds.

Looking further down the road, I'm wondering if the autonomy will result in a wider gap between the elite in the P5 and everyone else. Will it allow boosters to essentially openly pay players?

 

[SmilinBob]

I like the idea of getting rid of divisions but not the 10 conference games part. I like the variety that comes with good OOC games. I would go with 8 team conferences, play 7 conference games and 4 OOC. Each conference champion makes the playoff and the committee determines the seeds.

Looking further down the road, I'm wondering if the autonomy will result in a wider gap between the elite in the P5 and everyone else. Will it allow boosters to essentially openly pay players?

I agree that 10 is high but to get a fairer champion of a conference they have to play more of the schools in that conference. You'd still have 13 games overall thus 3 OOC games because I got rid of the conference championship game. I see your point regarding the OOC games but it is only shrunk by 3 and forces schools like Mississippi St who only plays 8 P5 teams this year to play more.

 

[Crusty]

If it were under my control I'd get rid of divisions and play 10 conference games (keep 9 for the Big 12) and send the 5 champions of each conference to the playoffs. 8 teams overall in case we have a tie for teams with a record for example 12-1 possibly 11-2 overall...depending on circumstances. Let the "committee" pick the 3 that have to qualify for the non automatic spots. No conference championship games.

No committees!

 

[Crusty]

The key is the money. A P5 championship would get split between the P5 schools. Any other form would be split too thinly for the P5 tastes. Somehow they will figure out how to keep all the money. Perhaps, I am too cynical? Not.

 

[SmilinBob]

No committees!

I get what you're saying but there would have to be a way to pick the last 3 in and human polls have a way too big impact on computer polls.

 

[SmilinBob]

The key is the money. A P5 championship would get split between the P5 schools. Any other form would be split too thinly for the P5 tastes. Somehow they will figure out how to keep all the money. Perhaps, I am too cynical? Not.

It is always about money always has been and will always be. The interesting part will be how they police themselves.

 

[sufandu]

I agree that 10 is high but to get a fairer champion of a conference they have to play more of the schools in that conference. You'd still have 13 games overall thus 3 OOC games because I got rid of the conference championship game. I see your point regarding the OOC games but it is only shrunk by 3 and forces schools like Mississippi St who only plays 8 P5 teams this year to play more.

My system would cover all of that. Like I said, I'd go to 8 team leagues with 7 conference games, so everyone would play everyone in conference. You'd get a true champion in every league and each champion would go to an 8 team playoff. If we reduced the regular season back to 11 you'd get 4 OOC games, if we kept it at 12 we'd get 5. If you mandate a team can only play one team outside of the P5 you still get 10 or 11 games against good competition.

 

[SmilinBob]

My system would cover all of that. Like I said, I'd go to 8 team leagues with 7 conference games, so everyone would play everyone in conference. You'd get a true champion in every league and each champion would go to an 8 team playoff. If we reduced the regular season back to 11 you'd get 4 OOC games, if we kept it at 12 we'd get 5. If you mandate a team can only play one team outside of the P5 you still get 10 or 11 games against good competition.

You will never be able to drop the conferences from 14 to 8 unless the conferences expand and go to two divisions of 8 and then have a championship game to decide who the champ is. I love how the Big 12 does it which is perfect imo...9 game full round robin and 3 OOC games.

 

[sufandu]

You will never be able to drop the conferences from 14 to 8 unless the conferences expand and go to two divisions of 8 and then have a championship game to decide who the champ is. I love how the Big 12 does it which is perfect imo...9 game full round robin and 3 OOC games.

We won't be able to do your system exactly as you laid out either, but we're talking hypotheticals aren't we? That's what I would do if I was in control.

 

[SmilinBob]

We won't be able to do your system exactly as you laid out either, but we're talking hypotheticals aren't we? That's what I would do if I was in control.

Gotcha.... the difference being I do have the power.

One thing about your system is that you'd only have 64 teams.

 

[sufandu]

Gotcha... the difference being I do have the power.

One thing about your system is that you'd only have 64 teams.

Yeah, there would have to be an exception. How many P5 teams are there, 65?

 

[SmilinBob]

66 I think.

 

[javadoc]

66 I think.

You could make a start by requiring that teams have to have played in the P5 no later than the 2013-2014 season.

 

[TheCusian]

Now that the NCAA has granted autonomy to the Power 5 Conferences (P5), these conferences are in a position to dominate college football beyond anything previously contemplated. The NCAA will eventually have to grant virtually complete autonomy to the P5 and along with it huge amounts of money. To me the analogy is the PGA Tour. Back in the day, the Professional Golfers Association of America was comprised of both club professionals and touring professionals – two groups with little in common and different agendas. Under threat of revolt, in 1968 the PGA split into two divisions, club pros and the Tournament Players Division, which took the name of the PGA Tour in 1975. The PGA Tour controls all of the money and is self-governing. The Pr will be mindful that they don’t have a baseball type exemption from the Sherman Antitrust Act. However, as time goes by, the P5 will control the talent pool and will monopolize the big money. The first step seems to be underway already with the movement to have all P5 OOC opponents from other P5 conferences. This is huge. It will eliminate the opportunity for non P5 teams to upset P5 teams and make it virtually impossible for non P5 teams to gain recognition. It will eliminate the $500,000 level payoffs to schools to offer their teams as fodder to the big boys. Over time, the money and talent gap will grow larger and larger. Everyone hates the football national championship because it is so subjective. The P5 will have an answer to this. I would expect that the P5 will eventually create a P5 championship, which by default will be the National Championship. They can easily create a playoff system with Conference Champions. One school, determined by ranking, power index or some other method, would have a bye week. They will keep the money from a humongous TV contract. Game, set and match. Your thought?

Agree. Non-p5, FBS could become FCS or remain an in between tier.

My hope is that the P5 would do something to answer the paying players issue and police the dirty underground of cheating (SEC, cough) with more teeth than the NCAA. The current state of affairs makes unfair allowances for cheating since the cop (NCAA) is asleep at the wheel. Ultimately, for CFB to reach its potential - cheating must be policed and enforced equally.

 

[sufandu]

Agree. Non-p5, FBS could become FCS or remain an in between tier.

My hope is that the P5 would do something to answer the paying players issue and police the dirty underground of cheating (SEC, cough) with more teeth than the NCAA. The current state of affairs makes unfair allowances for cheating since the cop (NCAA) is asleep at the wheel. Ultimately, for CFB to reach its potential - cheating must be policed and enforced equally.

The hard part about policing cheating is loop holes. Someone takes advantage of a loop hole (I didn't give that recruit an benefit, I bought him lunch at a really really nice restaurant), then someone tries to close the loop hole (you are allowed x number of dollars for a recruit's meals), then the rule making organization is accused of having a rule book that's too thick.

It'll be the same thing if/when kids can make money off of their likeness. Oregon coach to recruit, "Look how many more Marcus Mariota jerseys sold last year compared to every other player in the country (Phil Knight buys 50% of them), and the rules say the player gets a cut of every one." Recruit to coach, "So you're telling me I can make more money coming here than any other school because you sell more jersey's than any other school?" Coach, "Yep."

 

[BlazeOrange]

The first step seems to be underway already with the movement to have all P5 OOC opponents from other P5 conferences.

Is there an actual movement to this effect? I know conferences have requirements to play at least one P5 school OOC and/or have made agreements with other conferences for games, but I haven't seen anyone championing an entire P5-based schedule. Strength of schedule is often discussed for the playoff contenders, which will result in the factory schools starting to schedule tougher - especially after someone is denied a berth on that basis.

I'd like to see some sort of rotational agreement where each P5 team plays teams from two other P5 conferences each season. Host one year and visit the next, but not necessarily against the same opponent - let the conferences work out the matchups or roughly base it on the prior season's standings. After the two-year cycle, play a similiar series against the other two P5 conferences. That would provide a good basis for comparison between conferences and still allow each school to schedule 2 or 3 OOC games (depending on how many conference games they hold) as they wish.

 

[Crusty]

Is there an actual movement to this effect? I know conferences have requirements to play at least one P5 school OOC and/or have made agreements with other conferences for games, but I haven't seen anyone championing an entire P5-based schedule. Strength of schedule is often discussed for the playoff contenders, which will result in the factory schools starting to schedule tougher - especially after someone is denied a berth on that basis.

I'd like to see some sort of rotational agreement where each P5 team plays teams from two other P5 conferences each season. Host one year and visit the next, but not necessarily against the same opponent - let the conferences work out the matchups or roughly base it on the prior season's standings. After the two-year cycle, play a similiar series against the other two P5 conferences. That would provide a good basis for comparison between conferences and still allow each school to schedule 2 or 3 OOC games (depending on how many conference games they hold) as they wish.

I am referring to all the talk about only playing other P-5 schools. I think where there is smoke there is fire when is comes to CFB and money. At the moment, the new playoff system will force those who aspire to the playoff to schedule tougher opponents and they have a vested interest to have those all P5 schools.

Admittedly, I am projecting a lot, but we have seen this movie before. Combine all of this with something like the new FCC proposal for open access to programming and we have a brave new world. The power is shifting to the P5 and away from the cable providers.

Love to hear arbitragegls take on this.