OT: UGA Indoor Facility Cost

[ImperialOrange]

Couple things.

In some ways it is about the functionality of the buildings/facilities. Most facilities "function" in the same way which is pretty obvious.

Yes a 45lb plate weighs the same in Tuscaloosa as it does here in Syracuse.
Yes T-Hunt can use the same size field in our IPF as their 4 (4 & 5*) QB's can in their IPF.

Functionality is where the similarities end.

Since you brought up Alabama, I will use them as the example but you could use Clemson (Peer school but not really), or a number of programs.

When you look even at pictures of their facilities, what are your thoughts? What would a recruit think when comparing facilities? What about the coaches and their salaries, what does that say about the program? Does a kid want to go where the best highest paid coaches are or somewhere else? Add all of these things up and what do you get?

Let's say our coaching staff was equally as good as Bama's, they're not but let's suspend reality for moment. Why wouldn't a kid want the best coaches AND the best facilities? They are not mutually exclusive, a kid can have both.

Which facilities, public perception of those facilities, coaches salaries, coaching hires, which program screams commitment to football to you? Bama's or Cuse's.

Bottom line is that the administration at SU does not show a commitment to Football other that to be somewhat profitable and maintain the status quo so they get their $20 mil from the ACC and their 3 hour commercial 7 Saturdays a year.

You moved the target quite a bit. The thread is about facility costs. SU has heavily invested and now have the same functioning facilities to allow players to take advantage. Before the IPF we didn't. Our passing game has been woeful most years and I'd like to think our QB's, TE's, and WR's having a place to practice will help that. Time will tell of course.

 

[CuseOnly]

You moved the target quite a bit. The thread is about facility costs. SU has heavily invested and now have the same functioning facilities to allow players to take advantage. Before the IPF we didn't. Our passing game has been woeful most years and I'd like to think our QB's, TE's, and WR's having a place to practice will help that. Time will tell of course.

I didn't move the target at all. MY original post was about lack of commitment to the program and that is partly financial in a number of ways. It was also about perception to athletes of our program and why.

 

[oldpinepoint]

That's not really what I meant, though.

The arms race occurring in college athletics is obscene, and honestly it turns me off to following college sports.

Agree Scooch, its all about money.

 

[CuseOnly]

Sitting on their hands and doing nothing is one thing, complaining after they actually get stuff accomplished that it isn't enough is another.

They are spending money, they are upgrading the facilities, not sure what the problem is other than it isn't gilded enough for you.

Sitting on your hands for 30 years is what they did, pretty much since the Dome was built.

It's like starving for 30 years and someone finally throws you a Ritz cracker, you are going to think it is the best meal on the planet. When everyone who hasn't been starving themselves thinks...it's just a cracker.

Waited 30 years for an IPF and we got one...right after everyone else has one already. Now our competitors are spending hundreds of millions to be better than just having an IPF. My guess is that we will have to wait another 30 years to again catch up to average.

Yahoo.

 

[GoSU96]

Sitting on your hands for 30 years is what they did, pretty much since the Dome was built.

It's like starving for 30 years and someone finally throws you a Ritz cracker, you are going to think it is the best meal on the planet. When everyone who hasn't been starving themselves thinks...it's just a cracker.

Waited 30 years for an IPF and we got one...right after everyone else has one already. Now our competitors are spending hundreds of millions to be better than just having an IPF. My guess is that we will have to wait another 30 years to again catch up to average.

Yahoo.

Stop with the hysteria and exaggeration.

 

[longtimefan]

Sitting on your hands for 30 years is what they did, pretty much since the Dome was built.

It's like starving for 30 years and someone finally throws you a Ritz cracker, you are going to think it is the best meal on the planet. When everyone who hasn't been starving themselves thinks...it's just a cracker.

Waited 30 years for an IPF and we got one...right after everyone else has one already. Now our competitors are spending hundreds of millions to be better than just having an IPF. My guess is that we will have to wait another 30 years to again catch up to average.

Yahoo.

You certainly seem to qualify as your last sentence. And not in a UVA sort of way.

 

[Crusty]

I truly hope that whatever is done with the dome/stadium is first class and impressive. Doesn't have to be the biggest just unquestionably first class. We need a positive jolt.

 

[SU2NASA]

Is there anyone that honestly looks at our football program and can say "Syracuse University has made a commitment to a championship-quality football program," and do so without laughing hysterically or facepalming?

 

[longtimefan]

Is there anyone that honestly looks at our football program and can say "Syracuse University has made a commitment to a championship-quality football program," and do so without laughing hysterically or facepalming?

How do you define "championship-quality football program"? If it's "SEC level", then I'm happy that commitment has not been made.

 

[SU2NASA]

How do you define "championship-quality football program"? If it's "SEC level", then I'm happy that commitment has not been made.

ACC Championship level.

 

[longislandcuse]

It doesn't matter If our facilities are the most expensive, it matters that they are functional. It gives the players what they needed to succeed vs being hamstrung vs our peers. Having an ipf avail year round is huge for a northeastern school. Its no coincidence the top high school players come mainly from areas that athletes can play year round. Dade county players can go out and run a full practice right now, we hage frostbite warning for skin exposed for over 15 minutes. Bama's weight room is massive but the equipment is the same and the plates weigh the same. Again, its on the players to make the most of what they have. We now have all that we need for them to do that. Hunt can throw 100 crossing routes a day to Broyld, AJ can throw 100 fades to Ishmael.

The flip side is hoops where we have one of the newest, most expensive facilities and the team has been mediocre this season regardless. Again, its on the players to make the most of it.

Thats just this year and we're still a tournament team. Some people would call us the UGA of CBB, and guess what, we have basketball equivelant facilities to UGA football. You get what you pay for. Facilities matter.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Basketball school.

 

[longtimefan]

ACC Championship level.

The problem is, FSU is an SEC program in ACC clothes, Clemson is close to that, and Louisville has aspirations (and not many academic restraints) to join those two. And all are in our division. Which is why I hope something like 3-5-5 is instituted so that every few years we could catch lightning in a bottle.

 

[Libero2]

The problem is, FSU is an SEC program in ACC clothes, Clemson is close to that, and Louisville has aspirations (and not many academic restraints) to join those two. And all are in our division. Which is why I hope something like 3-5-5 is instituted so that every few years we could catch lightning in a bottle.

While this is clearly true, his point is we haven't made a financial commitment in order to challenge our peers and try to become competitive in the ACC let alone compete for a championship even in the scenario you presented.

 

[longtimefan]

While this is clearly true, his point is we haven't made a financial commitment in order to challenge our peers and try to become competitive in the ACC let alone compete for a championship even in the scenario you presented.

I think we are probably pretty close to a lot of our peer schools--BC, Pitt,UVa, etc. Certainly the new IPF has closed the gap. Now, are our coaches underpaid? Maybe, but they are unproven at this level. If they stick around (meaning they are succeeding), then they need to be bumped up. If they are gone, we'll find out what the administration is willing to invest in a new group.

And don't forget--there likely will be a large investment made in the Carrier Dome shortly.

 

[Libero2]

I think we are probably pretty close to a lot of our peer schools--BC, Pitt,UVa, etc. Certainly the new IPF has closed the gap. Now, are our coaches underpaid? Maybe, but they are unproven at this level. If they stick around (meaning they are succeeding), then they need to be bumped up. If they are gone, we'll find out what the administration is willing to invest in a new group.

And don't forget--there likely will be a large investment made in the Carrier Dome shortly.

I'm just continuing his point, I don't necessarily agree with it.

But his point is not that we aren't spending like a 'peer' ACC program, but that we aren't spending to improve our appeal in the ways similar to the teams we are chasing, the teams we want to be our peers, Louisville, UNC, FSU, Clemson etc...

 

[longtimefan]

I'm just continuing his point, I don't necessarily agree with it.

But his point is not that we aren't spending like a 'peer' ACC program, but that we aren't spending to improve our appeal in the ways similar to the teams we are chasing, the teams we want to be our peers, Louisville, UNC, FSU, Clemson etc...

I'm pretty sure we can't compete with FSU, probably can't keep up with Clemson, and may not be willing and/or able to prioritize athletics the way Louisville has.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

It is part sarcasm...it is part truth. When was the last time you heard anyone from SU say we want to have the best facilities in the ACC (like Clemson)? When was the last time you heard anyone in at SU make that kind of commitment and back it up when it comes to athletics?

All I have hear publicly is "..how are we going to get to revenue neutral status?". When it should be "...what do we have to do to be the leader in the ACC?"

It seems that they are content to do just enough to get by. And are content to know that our facilities will be just as good as Wake Forest once they have their IPF next year. Not sure that is something we can toot our horn about, but you be the judge.

Clemson wants to win championships and they put their money where their mouth is. SU wants to be mediocre and it shows in how the program is supported. Just saying.

If you want to win a drag race, you don't buy a Prius.
.

Sounds like someone likes SU football above and beyond just what it can do for the University and as an extension thereof. How very SEC of you! I agree entirely. It's sad others don't. I don't want balance. I don't want to "get my priorities straight and recognize these are students and not athletes first." Of course neither do they. This is a business. This makes money if you do it right. We just don't as of right now.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

You have a right?

Unless you are making a six figure donation you have a right to go the games a cheer.

Other than that you are a peanut gallery complainer.

Wrong! Everyone here and everywhere else in the world has a right to express their opinions. Don't like it? Voice that. But don't tell someone they don't have a right to express themselves here. On the other hand, the program isn't going to listen and doesn't have to unless he's a big time do or or there are a bunch of smaller donors that all feel that way.

 

[CuseOnly]

Sounds like someone likes SU football above and beyond just what it can do for the University and as an extension thereof. How very SEC of you! I agree entirely. It's sad others don't. I don't want balance. I don't want to "get my priorities straight and recognize these are students and not athletes first." Of course neither do they. This is a business. This makes money if you do it right. We just don't as of right now.

Being great at sports and being great in academics are not mutually exclusive. You can have both if you strive to be great at both.

My issue is that there is so much in-fighting between the 2 "sides" it's resulting in both not being great. Missouri, Texas, Stanford, Duke at present, Northwestern, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan, UNC, Wisconsin, Penn State, Miami, Florida, Washington, Ohio State, Clemson, Georgia, Pitt. ALL have US News rankings 62 or above and have pretty darn good football programs, why can't SU?

The problem isn't funds, the issue is lack of focus, dedication, direction and leadership to get everyone (academics & athletics) pulling in the same direction.

 

[longtimefan]

Being great at sports and being great in academics are not mutually exclusive. You can have both if you strive to be great at both.

My issue is that there is so much in-fighting between the 2 "sides" it's resulting in both not being great. Missouri, Texas, Stanford, Duke at present, Northwestern, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan, UNC, Wisconsin, Penn State, Miami, Florida, Washington, Ohio State, Clemson, Georgia, Pitt. ALL have US News rankings 62 or above and have pretty darn good football programs, why can't SU?

The problem isn't funds, the issue is lack of focus, dedication, direction and leadership to get everyone (academics & athletics) pulling in the same direction.

First of all, throw out all of the State U.'s, which have resources far beyond anything SU can dream of. Which leaves, from your list, Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame, USC, and Miami. Now you can do some comparing.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Being great at sports and being great in academics are not mutually exclusive. You can have both if you strive to be great at both.

My issue is that there is so much in-fighting between the 2 "sides" it's resulting in both not being great. Missouri, Texas, Stanford, Duke at present, Northwestern, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan, UNC, Wisconsin, Penn State, Miami, Florida, Washington, Ohio State, Clemson, Georgia, Pitt. ALL have US News rankings 62 or above and have pretty darn good football programs, why can't SU?

The problem isn't funds, the issue is lack of focus, dedication, direction and leadership to get everyone (academics & athletics) pulling in the same direction.

We agree

 

[CuseOnly]

First of all, throw out all of the State U.'s, which have resources far beyond anything SU can dream of. Which leaves, from your list, Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame, USC, and Miami. Now you can do some comparing.

Most kids, boosters, administrators, coaches, fans, etc don't grade facilities on a curve based on budget. We have better facilities than a MAC school hence we get better recruits. All of the P5 pretty much with the exception of about 5 schools have better facilities than we do, hence they get better recruits than we do. It's pretty simple.

You are responding to a post that says I think that SU should put the same amount of effort and resources into athletics that they put towards academics to be great. Relatively speaking of course.

SU is top 60 out of about 300+ schools that they look at, why can't we be in the top 15% in athletics as well? Why wouldn't you want that?

 

[longtimefan]

Most kids, boosters, administrators, coaches, fans, etc don't grade facilities on a curve based on budget. We have better facilities than a MAC school hence we get better recruits. All of the P5 pretty much with the exception of about 5 schools have better facilities than we do, hence they get better recruits than we do. It's pretty simple.

You are responding to a post that says I think that SU should put the same amount of effort and resources into athletics that they put towards academics to be great. Relatively speaking of course.

SU is top 60 out of about 300+ schools that they look at, why can't we be in the top 15% in athletics as well? Why wouldn't you want that?

Priorities. If you don't think there are points at which an either/or decision has to be made, you are naive.

You don't know what I want. Besides which, what I want has no impact on the reality of the situation.

 

[CuseOnly]

Priorities. If you don't think there are points at which an either/or decision has to be made, you are naive.

You don't know what I want. Besides which, what I want has no impact on the reality of the situation.

Of course you prioritize and you pick your short term battles but the end result in anything the University does should be to attain excellence Both in athletics and Academics. Period.

You are right I don't know what you want. BTW that was a question I was asking, not a statement and a pretty easy one to answer.

Seriously, why wouldn't you want SU to be both great at both sports and academics?