peter king tidbit about stadium sizes

[DoubleDee]

doesn't work that way. I'm 145lbs and I barely fit between the numbers. The seat width was determined in the 70s add in years of everyone eating like crap and being lazy the average butt has gotten bigger then the seat. Somewhere on google was a story on this topic. The average person today unfortunately is larger then they were when the domed opened. Personally I'm blaming dome dogs and beer

Yeah well I'm 160 and have no issue. My skinny fam and I have plenty of room.

 

[DoubleDee]

keep the seats the way they are. Just change the pricing.. if you're big enough to occupy 2 seats, you need to be paying for 2 seats.

Careful, them suin' words. Can't body shame the fan base!!

 

[Bayside44]

I'm not suggesting that crowd size dictates game outcomes. Great players bring wins.

I am suggesting that large capacity venues attract great players.

The ability of the BB team to attract 25,000 to 30,000+ fans for games is a huge selling point to young players. That dynamic transformed the BB program from a strong regional power, to a national power.

Kids want to play in front of large audiences.

Downsizing the Dome for football because some people want theater seats or larger concession stands is, in my opinion, a mistake.

College football games are 2x as long as college hoops games. The time suck of football is huge. If the Dome is a tricked out venue so much the better for the paying fan.

 

[OrangePA]

We'll never compete with the Penn States and the Clemsons of the world on capacity - we lose in that category and have for a very long time.

I'd cede that fight to have a back on my chair and a better game day experience.

I'm really amazed that folks have an issue with bench seating that has a back rest.

It has never occurred to me that that is or could be an issue.

It certainly does not hurt basketball attendance.

 

[Millhouse]

I looked it up.

There are twenty college stadiums with a capacity of 80,000 or more.

And there a more with capacities of 70,000.

I am all for amenities and comfortable seats, but I never want Syracuse University Football to be perceived as a lower tier program.

And if you can only hold 40,000 fans you will be viewed by athletes as lower tier or certainly not upper tier.

I believe in the notion that if you build it they will come. If Dino wins - and is able to beat or compete with Clemson and FSU on a consistent basis - similar to the BB team - he will sell a lot of seats and we will need greater capacity.

that is what we are though. would a really big stadium fool anyone?

i think we should be realistic about the ceiling for attendance and make the stadium look big and awesome without needing that many seats.

baylor's new football stadium looks much bigger than 45k. good thing they didn't build one too big - 45k might be 40k too big in 2 years!

 

[Millhouse]

I'm really amazed that folks have an issue with bench seating that has a back rest.

It has never occurred to me that that is or could be an issue.

It certainly does not hurt basketball attendance.

i don't get it either. there's probably not enough leg room for people to be leaned back at all

 

[Moontan]

Syracuse football saw a 21 percent decrease in attendance during the 2015 season, the largest decline among Power 5 schools over the last year.

Was there an asterisk with an explanation, or were they lazy?
Tickets sold vs. butts in seats.

 

[Millhouse]

College football games are 2x as long as college hoops games. The time suck of football is huge. If the Dome is a tricked out venue so much the better for the paying fan.

i'm in favor of rules changes to shorten the game. a million passes = a million stoppages. i can talk about this for a thousand hours but i only want to watch it for 3

 

[TheCusian]

I'm really amazed that folks have an issue with bench seating that has a back rest. It has never occurred to me that that is or could be an issue. It certainly does not hurt basketball attendance.

Does for me. My back kills from sitting on the metal bleachers for a whole game. At the UNC/Cuse basketball game last year I had a huge guy next to me, so I was leaning to the side with no support on my lower back.

Made losing the game painful x2.

 

[DoubleDee]

Alabama. Bench seats.
Notre Dame: Bench seats.
Ohio state: Bench seats.
Rose bowl: Bench seats
Michigan: Bench Seats.

Get over yourselves. This is just a few examples of what I think you will consider "top tier" programs no? Any google image search will show that these places have a majority of benches, and select small areas of "seats". One pic of Bryant Denny actually shows the seat add-ons like Syracuse already does.

So not a big deal to me. If they don't need it, why do we? I'd rather win like them.

 

[TheCusian]

Alabama. Bench seats. Notre Dame: Bench seats. Ohio state: Bench seats. Rose bowl: Bench seats Michigan: Bench Seats. Get over yourselves. This is just a few examples of what I think you will consider "top tier" programs no? Any google image search will show that these places have a majority of benches, and select small areas of "seats". One pic of Bryant Denny actually shows the seat add-ons like Syracuse already does. So not a big deal to me. If they don't need it, why do we? I'd rather win like them.

To be clear, I go to games regardless and don't think seating type changes anything at all perception-wise.

I just think we can lose a few thousand seats to make it better for those who do come.

And winning makes everything better.

 

[bevosu]

Was there an asterisk with an explanation, or were they lazy?
Tickets sold vs. butts in seats.

The data does not include neutral-site games and is based on announced numbers rather than actual attendance, which schools count differently.

Syracuse football sees biggest decline in attendance among Power 5 schools

 

[Hoo's That]

i'm in favor of rules changes to shorten the game. a million passes = a million stoppages. i can talk about this for a thousand hours but i only want to watch it for 3

TV causes the time problem.

Back in the day, there was only 1 ACC game on TV. It started at noon. The non-TV games usually started at 1:30. All of them would finish at 3:30.

I remember watching a discussion about why NFL games took so long. The talking heads mentioned every possible thing to cut except the one that every fan would cut - the number and length of TV commercial breaks. The 2 minute warning was put in for commercials. In HS football they at least had a 4-minute warning which consisted of the refs going toward the sideline; getting the attention of the HC, telling him, "4 minutes coach;" and then signalling the ball was ready for play. It took barely 20 seconds.

This may have changed, but in the bad old days of the NFL you easily could have this situation. Player gets injured w/2:15 left in the half/game. Officials' TO while they take care of him. String of commercials. The offense runs a play. 2-minute warning. String of commercials. Team scores a touchdown on next play after break. Kicks extra point. String of commercials. Team kicks off. String of commercials.

 

[Millhouse]

TV causes the time problem.

Back in the day, there was only 1 ACC game on TV. It started at noon. The non-TV games usually started at 1:30. All of them would finish at 3:30.

I remember watching a discussion about why NFL games took so long. The talking heads mentioned every possible thing to cut except the one that every fan would cut - the number and length of TV commercial breaks. The 2 minute warning was put in for commercials. In HS football they at least had a 4-minute warning which consisted of the refs going toward the sideline; getting the attention of the HC, telling him, "4 minutes coach;" and then signalling the ball was ready for play. It took barely 20 seconds.

This may have changed, but in the bad old days of the NFL you easily could have this situation. Player gets injured w/2:15 left in the half/game. Officials' TO while they take care of him. String of commercials. The offense runs a play. 2-minute warning. String of commercials. Team scores a touchdown on next play after break. Kicks extra point. String of commercials. Team kicks off. String of commercials.

back in the day, teams huddled and ran the ball all day

 

[orangenirvana]

be different. we can fill that dome with 35k spread out a smidge from each other

This is most important. CNY'ers aren't getting any skinnier.

 

[OrangePA]

Does for me. My back kills from sitting on the metal bleachers for a whole game. At the UNC/Cuse basketball game last year I had a huge guy next to me, so I was leaning to the side with no support on my lower back.

Made losing the game painful x2.

I understand.

But, most of the college football games I have attended have been in stadiums with bench seats.

It's not like being at home in front of the TV - I'll grant you.

But it's a football game - it's not supposed to be like being at home.

 

[OrangePA]

just passing along, i think some of what he says is goofy with regard to buffalo but that's besides the point

even NFL teams are talking about smaller stadiums. SU can reduce capacity, it's fine

Campus Life with Jim Harbaugh | The MMQB with Peter King

I haven't read the Peter King article but from what I have seen it seems that NFL stadiums continue to have greater capacity.

Jerry Jones can seat up to 100,000.

The new stadium in LA will seat up to 80,000.

Buffalo has reduced capacity from 80,000 when I was going in 1973, to I think about 72,000. But that's pretty insignificant when you reach those levels of capacity - and the Bills' need to expand suite revenue.

NFL teams don't have to worry about recruiting, or lower tier status, or, unequal TV revenue - the things that can impact our program.

The Dome should hold 50,000 at least.

 

[Ish88888]

If baylor is happy with 45k , then we should be too. End of story. The 25-30k basketball crowdsare obscene and flat out dumb with 1/2 the crowd needing to watch the game on the big screen. 10k of those seats sold are in another zip code and only made available so we can boast hoops attendance numbers. There are plenty of aweful seats for hoops.

 

[OrangeDW]

The fact is that kids are impressed by large crowds at games.

The chance to play before 30,000 folks is what makes SU BB so attractive.

And that is part of why OSU, Michigan, PSU, and the rest are appealing to young football players.

I want the Dome to hold at least 50,000 for FB. That figure has some measure of gravitas.

Kids are also impressed by full stadiums that seem loud and excited on TV.

Syracuse basketball = OSU, Michigan, Tennessee, etc. football in regards to being impressive in the size of the crowds.

Syracuse football needs to be = to Duke basketball, in that it's a "small" crowd but nobody cares because it's a loud and excited crowd that makes it a tough place to win for opponents.

 

[CuseOnly]

College football attendance in general has been trending downward since 2009. I'm not Kreskin, but my guess is the downward trend will not reverse itself in the near future...and maybe never.

But...we certainly will/can draw bigger crowds on average if we can be competitive...like winning more games than we lose for a change.

I doubt that we'll ever average much over 40k.

A couple of recent news tidbits:

Boston College, Washington State, Kansas, Wake Forest and Duke were the only Power 5 schools with lower average attendance figures than Syracuse.(2015)

Syracuse football saw a 21 percent decrease in attendance during the 2015 season, the largest decline among Power 5 schools over the last year.

You do realize that our now gone AD changed the way that attendance is figured, right?

He said "we will deal in truth" and changed the numbers from tickets sold to turnstyle count or actual asses in seats. Which is not the way everybody else figures attendance. It also screwed us out of the average and total attendance titles in basketball.

 

[CuseOnly]

If baylor is happy with 45k , then we should be too. End of story. The 25-30k basketball crowdsare obscene and flat out dumb with 1/2 the crowd needing to watch the game on the big screen. 10k of those seats sold are in another zip code and only made available so we can boast hoops attendance numbers. There are plenty of aweful seats for hoops.

Baylor is happy with criminal sex offenders on their roster, I would choose not to compare SU with that university in any way.

 

[bevosu]

You do realize that our now gone AD changed the way that attendance is figured, right?

He said "we will deal in truth" and changed the numbers from tickets sold to turnstyle count or actual asses in seats. Which is not the way everybody else figures attendance. It also screwed us out of the average and total attendance titles in basketball.

No I didn't realize that.

My contribution was meant to show that there is a downward trend in college football attendance. A factor to maybe consider when it comes to the size (seating) of a stadium plan.

People can discount the trend...there are also other factors to consider, positive and negative.

I'm agnostic at this point as far as what the seating plan will or should be.

 

[BKCuse]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Dome has never even officially sold out???

We can def afford to lose some capacity but the exact numbers don't even matter, what sells kids on the Cuse game experience is the DOME. We'll never compete in sheer numbers but no one is even in the game with us when it comes to DOMES

I would be happy with 44,044 capacity

 

[Moontan]

No I didn't realize that.

Which is why I posted "Was there an asterisk with an explanation, or were they lazy?
Tickets sold vs. butts in seats." earlier in this thread.

While there may well have been a small decline in ticket sales, the vast majority of the misleading decline number was due to the change in attendance accounting.

The fact that neither Mink nor Axe knew this, is, well, inexcusable.

 

[sufandu]

Kids are also impressed by full stadiums that seem loud and excited on TV.

Syracuse basketball = OSU, Michigan, Tennessee, etc. football in regards to being impressive in the size of the crowds.

Syracuse football needs to be = to Duke basketball, in that it's a "small" crowd but nobody cares because it's a loud and excited crowd that makes it a tough place to win for opponents.

I've said for a long time that the dome needs to be the cameron indoor of college football. Maybe with our new offense that will begat the success that will begat the sellout games. I'm for a small reduction in capacity but the suggestions of 30,000 go too far. If we stay around 45,000, the crowds will come when we start winning and it'll look fine on TV and in person.