Class of 2016 PG Tyus Battle (NJ) Signed LOI

[retro44]

RFO I agree on that Battle is not a PG here and from I am seeing out of Howard now it will be nearly impossible to beat him out next year unless Boeheim made some stupid promise of him starting no matter what.

Howard's improvement this year has been very good to great at times now and his ceiling is climbing very high now.

 

[SU94]

You know who I see when watching T.Battle? Julius Hodge 2.0.

And before anyone goes into a tizzy about this comp, remember Hodge was a 2x First-year ACC and the 2004 ACC Player of the Year.

At quick glance, very similar games IMHO.

 

[reedny]

RFO I agree on that Battle is not a PG here and from I am seeing out of Howard now it will be nearly impossible to beat him out next year unless Boeheim made some stupid promise of him starting no matter what.

Howard's improvement this year has been very good to great at times now and his ceiling is climbing very high now.

Howard has made strides .. but mostly in adjusting to the speed at this level and in seeing the court (which he does very well). Unfortunately, his offense disappeared as his PT increased, and his defense was never there to begin with. Great kid .. with upside. But from what I'm hearing of Battle's scoring and defending abilities, I don't see Battle sitting. Howard will get plenty of time to develop as the 3d guard.

 

[SUFan44]

Here's what I would say:

I'm probably harder on lead guards that just about anybody posting on the forum. Battle isn't a point guard. He's got a pretty nice handle and seems to see the floor well, but he isn't going to be the guy who initiates our offensive sets and runs them. It took Gbinije 3 years to get comfortable doing that, and Battle won't step in and run the offense as adroitly as G does right away.

As a compliementary ball handler / passer / playmaker, he can absolutely be a contributor in that capacity, and maybe even an above average one.

This is an imperfect comparison, but bear with me for this example. It would be like somebody suggesting that Malachi Richardson can create for himself off of the dribble and has a pretty good handle, so maybe he could run point. No, he couldn't. But could he chip in against pressure? Sure.

Battle has a tighter handle than Richardson, and he excels in the open floor. But handling in the open floor / dishing is easy--literally, anybody can do that, when guys are just running up and down the floor. It's much different when teams force you to play halfcourt basketball, and you have to initiate offensive sets, probe the defense, make the right decisions, etc. Not all guards do that well, and I'm not sure that Battle would either, if handed the ball and told to play point next year.

Somebody compared him to Dion Waiters above [in terms of being a combo who can chip in at the point], and while they aren't similar players, I think that's a pretty good comparison in terms of this conversation.

So with all that in mind, here are my thoughts:

• The starting backcourt will probably be Richardson / Battle, unless Howard makes the proverbial "sophomore jump

• If that happens, then I could see JB bringing Lydon off of the bench, and having the benefit of his scoring pop / shooting / depth

• Whether Howard starts or not, the team is going to need him to take the next step, because he's going to play a TON

• Howard could play with Battle or Richardson, or alongside both if one of them shifts to the back line of the zone

• Would love to see us add a 5th year transfer [if the #'s allow that] who is either a pure point or a true 3

Actually don't think Dion Waiters is a very good comparison at all, to be honest. Athletically and ability wise, yes they are both very athletically gifted and can do a number of things.

But Battle is much more of a pass-first, make the right play kind of guy. Which is why he can absolutely come in and start as a lead guard/point guard, whatever you want to call it. He also has a much quicker first step and is much faster with the ball than Gbinije, which will be a huge help for him going against shorter, peskier guards.

There will be rough patches as there always are with freshmen. But Battle can absolutely come in and run our sets if he's up to that task mentally (knowing where everyone should be, what the plays are, etc.). And he's going to need to.

 

[RF2044]

Actually don't think Dion Waiters is a very good comparison at all, to be honest. Athletically and ability wise, yes they are both very athletically gifted and can do a number of things.

But Battle is much more of a pass-first, make the right play kind of guy. Which is why he can absolutely come in and start as a lead guard/point guard, whatever you want to call it. He also has a much quicker first step and is much faster with the ball than Gbinije, which will be a huge help for him going against shorter, peskier guards.

There will be rough patches as there always are with freshmen. But Battle can absolutely come in and run our sets if he's up to that task mentally (knowing where everyone should be, what the plays are, etc.). And he's going to need to.

I wasn't comparing their games--I was making a comparison about their relative abilities to fill in at point guard for brief stints. Like Dion, he's got a good handle [which is best used creating his own shot opportunities], and appears to see the floor reasonably well. That's where the similarities begin and end in terms of this comparison.

It remains to be seen whether Battle can "come in and run our sets" -- after what I saw last night, I don't believe he's a point guard, or that our team's best interests would be best served trying to shoehorn him into that role. People expecting him to be MCW or Gbinije are setting themselves up for disappointment, IMO. As a complimentary ball handler who's freed up to attack and do his thing--that's a much better role / fit for his skill set.

I think it is much more likely that Howard starts at point, with Battle alongside him up top and a third guard [Mali] nominally playing 3.

 

[SUFan44]

I wasn't comparing their games--I was making a comparison about their relative abilities to fill in at point guard for brief stints. Like Dion, he's got a good handle [which is best used creating his own shot opportunities], and appears to see the floor reasonably well. That's where the similarities begin and end in terms of this comparison.

It remains to be seen whether Battle can "come in and run our sets" -- after what I saw last night, I don't believe he's a point guard, or that our team's best interests would be best served trying to shoehorn him into that role. People expecting him to be MCW or Gbinije are setting themselves up for disappointment, IMO. As a complimentary ball handler who's freed up to attack and do his thing--that's a much better role / fit for his skill set.

I think it is much more likely that Howard starts at point, with Battle alongside him up top and a third guard [Mali] nominally playing 3.

We will see - I respectfully disagree. One of the main reasons Battle committed to SU (as has been said by others much more in tune with knowing things than me) was that he'd be given the chance to play point.

Yes, he's not a classic PG. I agree with you. But I would be absolutely floored and shocked to see Frank Howard start next year. Much more likely that Moyer starts over Lydon than all three of those guards starting, given the lack of depth in the backcourt.

As I mentioned in the prior post - as with any freshman at any position, there will be ups and downs. But he's physically capable and has the mindset to be a point guard at the collegiate and pro level.

 

[reedny]

I wasn't comparing their games--I was making a comparison about their relative abilities to fill in at point guard for brief stints. Like Dion, he's got a good handle [which is best used creating his own shot opportunities], and appears to see the floor reasonably well. That's where the similarities begin and end in terms of this comparison.

It remains to be seen whether Battle can "come in and run our sets" -- after what I saw last night, I don't believe he's a point guard, or that our team's best interests would be best served trying to shoehorn him into that role. People expecting him to be MCW or Gbinije are setting themselves up for disappointment, IMO. As a complimentary ball handler who's freed up to attack and do his thing--that's a much better role / fit for his skill set.

(page 131) I think it is much more likely that Howard starts at point, with Battle alongside him up top and a third guard [Mali] nominally playing 3

(above page 132) So with all that in mind, here are my thoughts:

• The starting backcourt will probably be Richardson / Battle, unless Howard makes the proverbial "sophomore jump

Given these takes I'm not sure where you come out on this (whether Howard starts at point), but it's one of those "problems we like to have" discussions. Here are some issues I see at the 1,2 and 3 comparing Howard/Battle/Mali versus Battle/Mali/Lydon.

1. Howard's set-up abilities are substantial, but his offense is a WIP and his defense is not ready for prime time.. Unless (as you say) Howard takes a huge leap defensively and offensively, my instincts tell me that JB's going to start his two best players up top .. Battle and Mali .. as you predict in your more recent post;
2. Starting Howard with Battle at the 2 and Mali at SF (with Lydon coming off the bench at forward) will be fast and could be effective against many teams. Against bigger ACC front lines, with Mali at SF we take a size/rebounding hit ... at the very least we will face those lines aagainst UVA, LV and UNC. Even G-tech was boarding and dunking over Mali via White and Lammers, so that's a concern at the top of the conference; and
3. Why keep Lydon (and his rebounding and scoring) on the bench? We need his offense to help replace 30 points from G and TC, and we have someone off the bench (Moyer) who can contribute at forward. So, while I concede your point about the need for a set-up guy (a role neither Battle nor Mali is well suited for), there might also be an equal (or greater) benefit to having two athletic scorers like Battle and Mali up top, Lydon at the 3 and Robi at the 4 (Chukwu at the 5). That lineup is big, balanced and productive -- with 3 outside shooters/scorers and 2 rebounders, although it may not be the best 1-3 rotation for half court sets. I have a feeling with our defense next year vaulting up about 3 levels, we're going to be running and gunning so much it won't matter.

 

[RF2044]

(page 131) I think it is much more likely that Howard starts at point, with Battle alongside him up top and a third guard [Mali] nominally playing 3

(above page 132) So with all that in mind, here are my thoughts:

• The starting backcourt will probably be Richardson / Battle, unless Howard makes the proverbial "sophomore jump

Given these takes I'm not sure where you come out on this (whether Howard starts at point), but it's one of those "problems we like to have" discussions. Here are some issues I see at the 1,2 and 3 comparing Howard/Battle/Mali versus Battle/Mali/Lydon.

1. Howard's set-up abilities are substantial, but his offense is a WIP and his defense is not ready for prime time.. Unless (as you say) Howard takes a huge leap defensively and offensively, my instincts tell me that JB's going to start his two best players up top .. Battle and Mali .. as you predict in your more recent post;
2. Starting Howard with Battle at the 2 and Mali at SF (with Lydon coming off the bench at forward) will be fast and could be effective against many teams. Against bigger ACC front lines, with Mali at SF we take a size/rebounding hit ... at the very least we will face those lines aagainst UVA, LV and UNC. Even G-tech was boarding and dunking over Mali via White and Lammers, so that's a concern at the top of the conference; and
3. Why keep Lydon (and his rebounding and scoring) on the bench? We need his offense to help replace 30 points from G and TC, and we have someone off the bench (Moyer) who can contribute at forward. So, while I concede your point about the need for a set-up guy (a role neither Battle nor Mali is well suited for), there might also be an equal (or greater) benefit to having two athletic scorers like Battle and Mali up top, Lydon at the 3 and Robi at the 4 (Chukwu at the 5). That lineup is big, balanced and productive -- with 3 outside shooters/scorers and 2 rebounders, although it may not be the best 1-3 rotation for half court sets. I have a feeling with our defense next year vaulting up about 3 levels, we're going to be running and gunning so much it won't matter.

Do you remember the year we had DeShaun Williams starting out games as a point guard? Unfortunately, the only guy we had to come in and replace him was James Thues, but it goes to show that just being able to handle the ball doesn't a point guard make. And after watching Battle on Friday, I'm not sure that he's going to be the guy who can run our half court offensive sets when teams force us into a slow down tempo. In the open floor? He's great.

So the reason to prospectively start Howard, and shift Mali to three is that it will probably be our best offensive lineup. I agree that it would sacrifice size on the back line, but that could be offset by more potent scoring.

In terms of Lydon / Roberson playing together at forward--I'm skeptical. Guys like Fair / Southerland made it work because they had complimentary skill sets. I'm not sure that Lydon and Roberson do; keep in mind, that they'd also be playing alongside Chukwu. As you point out, that lineup would be big--I'm just no sure that it would be balanced.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Will Lydon be one of our 5 best players? Yes. He will probably be one of our two best players next year. No way he sits. Knowing JB theres a better chance he averages 35 plus.

Battle isn't going to be as good as Richardson or Lydon next year. He might not be as good as Howard.

 

[SUFan44]

Will Lydon be one of our 5 best players? Yes. He will probably be one of our two best players next year. No way he sits. Knowing JB theres a better chance he averages 35 plus.

Battle isn't going to be as good as Richardson or Lydon next year. He might not be as good as Howard.

You are underestimating Tyus Battle.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You are underestimating Tyus Battle.

I think people are underestimating Lydon. I wouldn't be surprised if he's our best player next year.

I've seen Battle play. He's good, but putting Lydon on the bench for he or especially Howard is crazy.

We are going to take a shooter off the court to put two non shooters on the court to play with a 7-2 center with limited offensive skills and another PF who can't do anything unless he's two feet from the basket? Theres no way Lydon plays less than 30 MPG next year. He's the best all around forward we've had since Wes.

 

[asj410]

Haven't really read through all of the back-and-forth in this thread on the starting lineup options for next year, but I'm inclined to think JB will start Battle, Richardson, Roberson, Lydon, and Coleman, especially with all of the talk about the staff telling Battle that we'd be putting the ball in his hands. However, that's simply the starting lineup. I think it's very likely that we'll end up seeing a lot of minutes of Battle and Howard up top with combinations of Richardson/Lydon/Roberson/Moyer at the forward spots. All in all, I think we're going to go eight deep next year: Battle, Richardson, Howard, Lydon, Roberson, Moyer, Coleman, Chukwu.

 

[SUFan44]

I think people are underestimating Lydon. I wouldn't be surprised if he's our best player next year.

I've seen Battle play. He's good, but putting Lydon on the bench for he or especially Howard is crazy.

We are going to take a shooter off the court to put two non shooters on the court to play with a 7-2 center with limited offensive skills and another PF who can't do anything unless he's two feet from the basket? Theres no way Lydon plays less than 30 MPG next year. He's the best all around forward we've had since Wes.

I was speaking more to this: "Battle isn't going to be as good as Richardson or Lydon next year. He might not be as good as Howard." That's crazy talk. Battle is really good and will start.

Also, I never said anything about putting Lydon on the bench for Howard or Battle. There's a possibility Moyer starts and Lydon continues to come off the bench, a la Jerami Grant. Adds versatility to our team and would help our second unit significantly. But that's up to JB - not us.

Love Lydon. He is going to be good and will be better in his more natural position of forward. Wasn't bashing him at all, but merely saying that Battle is special, too.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I was speaking more to this: "Battle isn't going to be as good as Richardson or Lydon next year. He might not be as good as Howard." That's crazy talk. Battle is really good and will start.

Also, I never said anything about putting Lydon on the bench for Howard or Battle. There's a possibility Moyer starts and Lydon continues to come off the bench, a la Jerami Grant. Adds versatility to our team and would help our second unit significantly. But that's up to JB - not us.

Love Lydon. He is going to be good and will be better in his more natural position of forward. Wasn't bashing him at all, but merely saying that Battle is special, too.

Fair enough. I've watched him play too. It's hard to read with freshman. We've had top recruits come in here and struggle before even though we thought they would be great. This year we've got more than we expected out of Lydon/Richardson. I think next year those two guys with Roberson will probably be the cornerstones of that team next year.

If Battle starts I hope he dominates, I just don't think it is as forgone a conclusion as a lot of people do. Some people are high on Howard as PG, i think one or the other starts, not both.

The thing that caustions me about Battle is he is not a pure PG and he isn't a great shooter. A lot of people expect him to play a similar role as Dion, and as a freshman he wasn't logging 20 minutes a game.

 

[reedny]

Will Lydon be one of our 5 best players? Yes. He will probably be one of our two best players next year. No way he sits. Knowing JB theres a better chance he averages 35 plus.

Battle isn't going to be as good as Richardson or Lydon next year. He might not be as good as Howard.

Battle's highly touted .. RF saw him recently and he's an exciting player who can score and defend. At the same time, there's a good argument (see above) that we need a PG to run the offense .. which would suggest that Howard will either start or play quite a bit. He's not productive offensively or a particularly able defender (yet). So lots of this will depend on Howard's development the rest of the year and over the summer.

Either way, the lineup possibilities will give us plenty to discuss in the off-season.

 

[asj410]

The thing that caustions me about Battle is he is not a pure PG and he isn't a great shooter. A lot of people expect him to play a similar role as Dion, and as a freshman he wasn't logging 20 minutes a game.

I think one of the main differences with the Dion comparison is that Dion had Triche and Scoop in front of him, both of whom JB was going to ride pretty hard in terms of PT. With Gbinije and Cooney gone next year, and Joseph unlikely to see any meaningful PT, there's a much larger opportunity for Battle to snatch up significant minutes as a freshman than the situation Waiters came into as a freshman. Of course, the other part of this is how JB will use Richardson. Will he shift to almost exclusively the 2, or will he continue to see a lot of minutes at the 3?

 

[tee1222]

Triple double last night. His team won by 56 points.
23 points, 14 rebounds, 10 assists and 3 steals.
No offense to anyone on the board, but I still think he can play point guard here.

Baby bro got on board last night hitting 3 three pointers.

 

[reedny]

Triple double last night. His team won by 56 points.
23 points, 14 rebounds, 10 assists and 3 steals.
No offense to anyone on the board, but I still think he can play point guard here.

Baby bro got on board last night hitting 3 three pointers.

You don't have to be a traditional point to be effective at the top of the zone.

signed,

G

 

[General20]

You don't have to be a traditional point to be effective at the top of the zone.

signed,

G

Put me in the camp that thinks Battle and Richardson will be just fine as our two guards next year. Basketball is moving away from traditional positions. I think its easiest to look at SU as having 3 positions instead of 5. The three positions are top of the zone, wing of the zone, and center of the zone.

Battle may not be a traditional point guard, but he can handle the ball and he's got good vision. He will be able to see over the top of pressure D and get the ball where it needs to go.

In the half court I think most of our offense will go through Richardson anyway, who I think can be all american quality next year.

I doubt there will be more than a handful of games where we will need extra ball handling and in those games, obviously Howard will play a bigger role. Its nice to have him in reserve.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Anyone who thinks Battle, Richardson, Lydon and Roberson don't start next year are not paying attention.

 

[NYCorange]

Put me in the camp that thinks Battle and Richardson will be just fine as our two guards next year. Basketball is moving away from traditional positions. I think its easiest to look at SU as having 3 positions instead of 5. The three positions are top of the zone, wing of the zone, and center of the zone.

Battle may not be a traditional point guard, but he can handle the ball and he's got good vision. He will be able to see over the top of pressure D and get the ball where it needs to go.

In the half court I think most of our offense will go through Richardson anyway, who I think can be all american quality next year.

I doubt there will be more than a handful of games where we will need extra ball handling and in those games, obviously Howard will play a bigger role. Its nice to have him in reserve.

I agree to a certain extent and hope that you are right. I don't care if Battle is a traditional point guard--I just want him to be a good one. G is a very good player, he's just not a very good point guard--he does enough stuff to compensate and his defense at the top is excellent, but the lack of creativity, vision, and ball handling in our offense hurts us. I do however feel good enough about Howard playing the point that if Battle plays the point next year over Howard, I'm sure he'll be doing fine.

Regarding next year's starting lineup. I'm not convinced that Lydon starts. I could easily see a lineup of Howard, Battle, Richardson, Roberson and Chukwu. Lydon would come off the bench and play a ton. Probably not as likely as a Battle, Richardson, Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu lineup, but I don't get the sense that Battle was promised to start at the 1, just that he'd have the ball in his hands a lot.

 

[RF2044]

Battle's highly touted .. RF saw him recently and he's an exciting player who can score and defend. At the same time, there's a good argument (see above) that we need a PG to run the offense .. which would suggest that Howard will either start or play quite a bit. He's not productive offensively or a particularly able defender (yet). So lots of this will depend on Howard's development the rest of the year and over the summer.

Either way, the lineup possibilities will give us plenty to discuss in the off-season.

Quite valid. We have numerous players capable of playing multiple combinations:

Battle 1, 2, or 3
Richardson 2 or 3
Lydon 4, 5 and possibly 3
Moyer 4 and possibly 3

That versatility means we could see all sorts of combinations. I figure that Coleman / Chukwu can only play 5, Roberson is more or less a 4 [although that is less important on the defensive side of the ball in our system] and Howard can [more or less] only play 1. That's 8 guys who will play, with lots of mixing and matching to offset any foul trouble / lack of depth considerations.

Next year's team could truly be loaded. I agree with General20's astute observation that positions are overrated, and that posters often put too much stock in them--especially when we have numerous guys capable of playing numerous positions. My contention is that lead guard could be next year's Achilles heel. Or not, if Battle / Howard are up to the challenge. : )

We'll see--should be an exciting year!

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Dave85]

It will be nice to have a guy with true NBA athleticism. "But his best attribute Tuesday was his explosive speed, his ability to accelerate past anybody in his path. He can grab the ball off the backboard, put it on the floor and in one swift, devastating surge, reach the rim."

Nice words from his coach:

"I can tell you in all the games we've played, all the big events, he is the most explosive straight-line player I've ever seen from baseline to baseline in a straight line," St. Joseph's coach Dave Turco said. "What he has is comparable to some of those guys in the NBA and it's just amazing to watch. This is game 19 and I'm still blown away by how quick he can get from Point A to Point B in a straight line."

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske..._explosive_dunks_surg.html#incart_river_index