Putting the pieces Together.....

[newmexicuse]

I just can't see this being a FF group. However, I do think there is sufficient talent for this group to be a Top 15 squad and a Sweet Sixteen team if we can play up to our potential. Here is my take on what is necessary:

1. The single biggest wildcard with this team is Trevor. IMHO he just isn't good enough to be counted on every game. However, he does need to average 35 to 40% from downtown & we will need him to be particularly hot and "single-handedly" drag us across the finish in three or four games, That should be within his capabilities. Teams can no longer go far without a certain amount of successful 3 point shooting. It is too unlikely anybody else can step up sufficiently. The burden falls on Trevor, just no way around that.

2. BJ - He is probably the most likely candidate to be a second three point threat. Jimmy cannot give this kid any more DNPs. He needs to be made a 100% part of the rotation and to be given a longer leash. We need to let him go through some growing pains & to be the player we all hope he will be by Dance time.

3. X - I am very happy with his improvement and his play overall, though I do wish he would look to kick out more when the post move openings are not there. The biggie for him is to stay out of foul trouble and to be able to play his 32 MPG every game.

4. Obokoh - He is an end of the bench player, but I just can't see McC being the guy to back up Rak when Rak has to sit. I think McC will get eaten alive at the 5 spot by those foes with above average centers & worse yet playing there might get McC into foul trouble. I have only seen a little of O, but in those cameos he appears to have the size & strength to give us some reasonably quality ( 5 to 8 ) minutes when Rak sits. Jimmy needs to get this kid some development time. If not, I will have to be a broken record again.

5. KJ - I love this kid, the only issue is can he come along fast enough to really be ready by March. The two big keys are for him to limit TOs and to be able to hit the occasional three to keep em honest.

6. Mike G - He will fill his role & in the course of doing that he will have some better and some worse games. I just don't see any meaningful upside to his game.

7. McC - He seems to be doing all and more than can be expected from a frosh. The areas he he needs to improve - strength and adding range to his j are just probably not going to happen intra-season. Hopefully, he will just gradually step up his D.

8. Roberson - He should be solid in what he does, probably not too much should be expected for intra-season progression. I think if he improved his confidence that would make a big difference.

9. Buss - Hopefully he can at least get hot every so often & bail us out in a couple of games here and there.

10. Jimmy - I have been a harsh critic over the years of Jimmy's short benches. I think on this year's team at least three guys - BJ, O, and Roberson need to be given lengthened leashes. Let's see if that happens as I am already concerned about how much Jimmy shortened the bench in the Iowa game. This year will be a challenge for the staff to make sure we win enough to make the tourney for sure and also to really get the substitute players ready enough simultaneously.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

"BJ - He is probably the most likely candidate to be a second three point threat. Jimmy cannot give this kid any more DNPs. He needs to be made a 100% part of the rotation and to be given a longer leash. We need to let him go through some growing pains & to be the player we all hope he will be by Dance time."

Can you recall the last player to work himself into the rotation within a season, not due to injury or eligibility factors? It doesn't happen here. Our only hope is CMac becomes a chucker from inside and outside only he is actually skilled and talented enough to justify the chucking (unlike dante).

 

[newmexicuse]

"BJ - He is probably the most likely candidate to be a second three point threat. Jimmy cannot give this kid any more DNPs. He needs to be made a 100% part of the rotation and to be given a longer leash. We need to let him go through some growing pains & to be the player we all hope he will be by Dance time."

Can you recall the last player to work himself into the rotation within a season, not due to injury or eligibility factors? It doesn't happen here. Our only hope is CMac becomes a chucker from inside and outside only he is actually skilled and talented enough to justify the chucking (unlike dante).

BJ is part of the rotation as we speak. The question is will he remain part of the rotation as Jimmy hunkers down. The Iowas game DNP concerns me. I don't see McC is a legit trey threat. I think his effective range right now is probably around 18' or less.

You raise a great point - who was the last player to effectively work his way into the rotation intra-season ?

Probably SWC has to go back to the Jurassic archives to answer that question !!!!

 

[stuckinbig11]

1. The single biggest wildcard with this team is Trevor.

The single biggest wildcard with this team is someone getting Trevor the ball when he is wide open, so that he gets good shots not off-balance shots.

 

[KaiserUEO]

BJ is part of the rotation as we speak. The question is will he remain part of the rotation as Jimmy hunkers down. The Iowas game DNP concerns me. I don't see McC is a legit trey threat. I think his effective range right now is probably around 18' or less.

You raise a great point - who was the last player to effectively work his way into the rotation intra-season ?

Probably SWC has to go back to the Jurassic archives to answer that question !!!!

edelin.

the reason why the Orange have a chance at the S16, is because every year...2 or 3 crappy teams make it there.

lets just worry about making the dance 1st.

 

[rrlbees]

I just can't see this being a FF group. However, I do think there is sufficient talent for this group to be a Top 15 squad and a Sweet Sixteen team if we can play up to our potential. Here is my take on what is necessary: 1. The single biggest wildcard with this team is Trevor. IMHO he just isn't good enough to be counted on every game. However, he does need to average 35 to 40% from downtown & we will need him to be particularly hot and "single-handedly" drag us across the finish in three or four games, That should be within his capabilities. Teams can no longer go far without a certain amount of successful 3 point shooting. It is too unlikely anybody else can step up sufficiently. The burden falls on Trevor, just no way around that. 2. BJ - He is probably the most likely candidate to be a second three point threat. Jimmy cannot give this kid any more DNPs. He needs to be made a 100% part of the rotation and to be given a longer leash. We need to let him go through some growing pains & to be the player we all hope he will be by Dance time. 3. X - I am very happy with his improvement and his play overall, though I do wish he would look to kick out more when the post move openings are not there. The biggie for him is to stay out of foul trouble and to be able to play his 32 MPG every game. 4. Obokoh - He is an end of the bench player, but I just can't see McC being the guy to back up Rak when Rak has to sit. I think McC will get eaten alive at the 5 spot by those foes with above average centers & worse yet playing there might get McC into foul trouble. I have only seen a little of O, but in those cameos he appears to have the size & strength to give us some reasonably quality ( 5 to 8 ) minutes when Rak sits. Jimmy needs to get this kid some development time. If not, I will have to be a broken record again. 5. KJ - I love this kid, the only issue is can he come along fast enough to really be ready by March. The two big keys are for him to limit TOs and to be able to hit the occasional three to keep em honest. 6. Mike G - He will fill his role & in the course of doing that he will have some better and some worse games. I just don't see any meaningful upside to his game. 7. McC - He seems to be doing all and more than can be expected from a frosh. The areas he he needs to improve - strength and adding range to his j are just probably not going to happen intra-season. Hopefully, he will just gradually step up his D. 8. Roberson - He should be solid in what he does, probably not too much should be expected for intra-season progression. I think if he improved his confidence that would make a big difference. 9. Buss - Hopefully he can at least get hot every so often & bail us out in a couple of games here and there. 10. Jimmy - I have been a harsh critic over the years of Jimmy's short benches. I think on this year's team at least three guys - BJ, O, and Roberson need to be given lengthened leashes. Let's see if that happens as I am already concerned about how much Jimmy shortened the bench in the Iowa game. This year will be a challenge for the staff to make sure we win enough to make the tourney for sure and also to really get the substitute players ready enough simultaneously.

Your #5 is the key going forward and I think the coaches would agree. Joseph has to do a better job at seeing the court. That's not a knock on him necessarily because it will come with more game experience. That bodes well going forward, especially later in the season.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Your #5 is the key going forward and I think the coaches would agree. Joseph has to do a better job at seeing the court. That's not a knock on him necessarily because it will come with more game experience. That bodes well going forward, especially later in the season.

I agree. He is missing the players he should be feeding to far too often.

 

[anomander]

I am more worried about actually making the tournament then making a FF run. This team is scary limited on the offensive end. This is one of the worst SU teams in the past 25 years...which isn't that bad.

 

[GonzoInMD]

We should get a better idea tonight of how the defense is coming along. It looked better on Tuesday, but, since Loyola was so bad, it might be a fluke.

 

[br801]

Can you recall the last player to work himself into the rotation within a season, not due to injury or eligibility factors? It doesn't happen here. Our only hope is CMac becomes a chucker from inside and outside only he is actually skilled and talented enough to justify the chucking (unlike dante).

I'm vaguely recalling Josh Pace working himself into a bigger role one year but can't quite remember how that season turned out.

 

[br801]

I just can't see this being a FF group. However, I do think there is sufficient talent for this group to be a Top 15 squad and a Sweet Sixteen team if we can play up to our potential. Here is my take on what is necessary:

1. The single biggest wildcard with this team is Trevor. IMHO he just isn't good enough to be counted on every game. However, he does need to average 35 to 40% from downtown & we will need him to be particularly hot and "single-handedly" drag us across the finish in three or four games, That should be within his capabilities. Teams can no longer go far without a certain amount of successful 3 point shooting. It is too unlikely anybody else can step up sufficiently. The burden falls on Trevor, just no way around that.

Despite what many on this board seem to believe, Cooney does bring more to the table than just shoot 3s. And while he has not yet shot well from deep this season, the rest of his game has been solid thus far. He does seem to be forcing things a bit at times, but I think that's just out of frustration with a lack of good open looks compared to last season. I'm hoping a little success might springboard him into becoming the effective 3-poiunt shooter we saw during the first part of last season.

As far as others stepping up as legitimate 3-point threats this year, I think there are several candidates (Gbinije, Joseph, Johnson, Patterson and possibly even McCullough) and believe at least two of them will emerge as consistent threats before the dust settles.

 

[anomander]

Despite what many on this board seem to believe, Cooney does bring more to the table than just shoot 3s. And while he has not yet shot well from deep this season, the rest of his game has been solid thus far. He does seem to be forcing things a bit at times, but I think that's just out of frustration with a lack of good open looks compared to last season. I'm hoping a little success might springboard him into becoming the effective 3-poiunt shooter we saw during the first part of last season.

As far as others stepping up as legitimate 3-point threats this year, I think there several candidates (Gbinije, Joseph, Johnson, Patterson and possibly even McCullough) and believe at least two of them will emerge as consistent threats before the dust settles.

I don't want to turn this into another Cooney thread, but what are all of these other things he brings to the table? He does seem to have improved his handle, and ability to drive, but that's not really saying much since he was pretty poor beforehand. I have always said his defensive abilities have been over rated. He consistently gets beats off the bounce. I have always felt Cooney would best be suited for a 6th man roll. He really isn't going to hurt you, but he can't be depended on for consistency, something you want out of your starters. In a 6th man roll he can come off the bench, fire up some threes, and see what happens. If he gets hot, he stays in, if not, then back to the bench. Sure that's not happening with this team, but in a perfect situation that's what he would be best at. It would relieve him of any pressure of carrying the team, which could help his mindset, and in turn his shot. Either way you slice it's tough having an inconsistent Cooney be a 35-40 minute guy on a very successful team. Of the top 10 teams, which one would you see Cooney playing 30 minutes + on?

 

[br801]

I don't want to turn this into another Cooney thread, but what are all of these other things he brings to the table? He does seem to have improved his handle, and ability to drive, but that's not really saying much since he was pretty poor beforehand. I have always said his defensive abilities have been over rated. He consistently gets beats off the bounce. I have always felt Cooney would best be suited for a 6th man roll. He really isn't going to hurt you, but he can't be depended on for consistency, something you want out of your starters. In a 6th man roll he can come off the bench, fire up some threes, and see what happens. If he gets hot, he stays in, if not, then back to the bench. Sure that's not happening with this team, but in a perfect situation that's what he would be best at. It would relieve him of any pressure of carrying the team, which could help his mindset, and in turn his shot. Either way you slice it's tough having an inconsistent Cooney be a 35-40 minute guy on a very successful team. Of the top 10 teams, which one would you see Cooney playing 30 minutes + on?

My point was that he has a decent all around game and does contribute even when his 3s aren't falling. At this point, he defends the top of the zone better than any other guard on this team other than Gbinjje. His handle and ability to drive have improved, as you noted. He's one of the more vocal leaders on this team. He's one of the most experienced returning players on a very young team, so not surprisingly JB is going to rely on him for big minutes. That is all.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I'm vaguely recalling Josh Pace working himself into a bigger role one year but can't quite remember how that season turned out.

I believe that had something to do with Edelins eligibility issues. Not saying that Pace did not deserve his roll at all, he was great for us and we needed him to win the 'ship...

 

[two3zone]

I don't want to turn this into another Cooney thread, but what are all of these other things he brings to the table? He does seem to have improved his handle, and ability to drive, but that's not really saying much since he was pretty poor beforehand. I have always said his defensive abilities have been over rated. He consistently gets beats off the bounce. I have always felt Cooney would best be suited for a 6th man roll. He really isn't going to hurt you, but he can't be depended on for consistency, something you want out of your starters. In a 6th man roll he can come off the bench, fire up some threes, and see what happens. If he gets hot, he stays in, if not, then back to the bench. Sure that's not happening with this team, but in a perfect situation that's what he would be best at. It would relieve him of any pressure of carrying the team, which could help his mindset, and in turn his shot. Either way you slice it's tough having an inconsistent Cooney be a 35-40 minute guy on a very successful team. Of the top 10 teams, which one would you see Cooney playing 30 minutes + on?

Of the top ten teams? Who cares. What about this team? Take 15-20 minutes from him, who do you give those minutes to? Buss and BJ have done zero to earn them and G hasn't been great and getting plenty.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

1. The single biggest wildcard with this team is Trevor.

The single biggest wildcard with this team is someone getting Trevor the ball when he is wide open, so that he gets good shots not off-balance shots.

Were it only that simple. Guy can't get open consistently for multiple reasons. His problem isnt NOT getting the ball when he is open.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

To follow up the Cooney stuff, the question is whether or not he is hitting 3's what is his impact while he is on the floor. Here is a look at CJ's shot selection and % when Cooney was on and off the court.

Interestingly CJ was taking slightly better shots when Cooney was playing, but he was shooting them at significantly lower %s. CJ was hitting a much higher % of his shots at the rim and from 3 when Cooney was on the court, but his mainstay the 2 point jumper had a huge drop off. Ultimately leading to CJ having a lower production (PPS = Points Per Shot) with Cooney on the floor.

 

[Cuse_1999]

I believe that had something to do with Edelins eligibility issues. Not saying that Pace did not deserve his roll at all, he was great for us and we needed him to win the 'ship...

Edelin missed the first 11 games. When he came back, he immediately was in the rotation at the expense of Pace. I remember Pace going like a 5 game stretch near the end of the season without playing. There was an article on syracuse.com about him being frustrated. Then, all of sudden he worked his way back into the lineup in the NCAAT and played a nice role during the title run