Read Bleeding Orange | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Read Bleeding Orange

I don't know how accurate the statement is, but I look at programs like Kentucky, or North Carolina, or many other top programs - and they still have decent crowds at their games when it's a down years. Programs like DePaul and Houston that were dominant programs in the 70s/80s also had more "pro-mentality" fans - when they started to struggle a bit fans disappeared and the programs fell off a cliff.

The only program I can think of that makes me question the statement is Indiana - it shocks me how largely mediocre they've managed to be for two decades now.

TL;DR version - I think the "evidently false" portion of your comment needs elaboration - what programs am I missing that make it a clearly false statement?

Actually, Indiana was my best college hoops counterexample in calling his statement false. I think the same could go for a number of Big Ten teams, and West Virginia for some reason comes to mind. Haven't checked in on Oklahoma State recently, but their fans have the reputation of having stuck around through long down periods. Providence, to a lesser extent, same deal.
 
JBs comments about slippage says that it is exacerbated by a fickle fan base. None of the schools mentioned above has a fickle fan base to my knowledge.

Schools he mentioned were DePaul, Houston, Georgia Tech, UNLV and Purdue among others.

You really need to read the whole section so nothing is taken out of context.
 
JBs comments about slippage says that it is exacerbated by a fickle fan base. None of the schools mentioned above has a fickle fan base to my knowledge.

Schools he mentioned were DePaul, Houston, Georgia Tech, UNLV and Purdue among others.

You really need to read the whole section so nothing is taken out of context.

It's easy to name those teams, not one of them has been good for almost decades or in some cases decades. Fickle isn't the right word. Bad product = poor attendance.
 
It's easy to name those teams, not one of them has been good for almost decades or in some cases decades. Fickle isn't the right word. Bad product = poor attendance.
Slippage exacerbated by fickle fans. I guess you have knowledge otherwise.

Teams like Indiana or WV as mentioned by Otto Mets had/have fans that hung in there in bad times. Other teams fans didn't.
 
Slippage exacerbated by fickle fans. I guess you have knowledge otherwise.

Teams like Indiana or WV as mentioned by Otto Mets had/have fans that hung in there in bad times. Other teams fans didn't.

Those teams have sucked for a long time, have they not? Did they get bad one year and the fan base went away or did it dwindle slowly? Did you do any research on the subject, have you looked at the attendance figures based on team record? I didn't but I think it's pretty simple that bad product = bad attendance; I think it's more common sense than it's knowledge, but I appreciate the jab.

You bring up Indiana, basketball is life in Indiana, hell there's a movie called Hoosiers that'll tell you about what basketball means to the state that shares the same name as the basketball team.
 
Understand the point you are making realorange- but if we are going to be honest, a lot more significant aspects go into programs going into long spells of doom and gloom. While I am sure a fickle fan base does not help, it is not VERY significant. I do not think that will ever happen at Syracuse. Too much pride in the hoops team here. Now will people get upset when the team is 11-9? Yes. Every program will. If that trend happens to continue, it is not because of the fan base. Way more important aspects go into a programs success when you compare fan base support.
 
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Understand the point you are making realorange- but if we are going to be honest, a lot more goes into programs going into long spells of doom and gloom. While I am sure a fickle fan base does not help, it is not VERY significant. I do not think that will ever happen at Syracuse. Too much pride in the hoops team here. Now will people get upset when the team is 11-9? Yes. Every program will. If that trend happens to continue, it is not because of the fan base. Way more important aspects go into a programs success when you compare fan base support.

If we continue this trend, JB will be gone and we're in the lower middle or bottom of the ACC we'll be lucky to get more than 17k in the Dome for non marquee games. I'm willing to bet our average attendance the past couple of years is much lower than it was when we had ranked teams.
 
If we continue this trend, JB will be gone and we're in the lower middle or bottom of the ACC we'll be lucky to get more than 17k in the Dome for non marquee games. I'm willing to bet our average attendance the past couple of years is much lower than it was when we had ranked teams.
That happens when you don't win. Happens basically everywhere. I bet COLORADO and WASH football had horrible attendance and fan base support. They hired great coaches, now they are flourishing and probably have tons of fan base support. Its how sports work.
 
Those teams have sucked for a long time, have they not? Did they get bad one year and the fan base went away or did it dwindle slowly? Did you do any research on the subject, have you looked at the attendance figures based on team record? I didn't but I think it's pretty simple that bad product = bad attendance; I think it's more common sense than it's knowledge, but I appreciate the jab.

You bring up Indiana, basketball is life in Indiana, hell there's a movie called Hoosiers that'll tell you about what basketball means to the state that shares the same name as the basketball team.
I mentioned Indiana as a team that has always had fan loyalty.

As for the other teams, I guess you must be right with your bad product=bad attendance. After all, you said it twice.
 
Understand the point you are making realorange- but if we are going to be honest, a lot more significant aspects go into programs going into long spells of doom and gloom. While I am sure a fickle fan base does not help, it is not VERY significant. I do not think that will ever happen at Syracuse. Too much pride in the hoops team here. Now will people get upset when the team is 11-9? Yes. Every program will. If that trend happens to continue, it is not because of the fan base. Way more important aspects go into a programs success when you compare fan base support.
I certainly think you are right. But if you believed some of the posts lately, you'd wonder.
 
If we continue this trend, JB will be gone and we're in the lower middle or bottom of the ACC we'll be lucky to get more than 17k in the Dome for non marquee games. I'm willing to bet our average attendance the past couple of years is much lower than it was when we had ranked teams.

Like last night. 8:00 p.m. tip, 22 announced, maybe 14,000 in the house.

Anyway, I forget what we're even arguing here.
 
Belatedly, I just finished reading Bleeding Orange.

While it is mainly about JB’s coaching life, it goes into a lot more than that. I didn’t realize just how much until I finished reading it and most of the posts on this board over the last week.

Take the time to read it and find out Jim’s philosophy on coaching, the zone, player recruitment, managing players, etc., etc.

Many of the posts I have read recently make statements that frankly are off the wall with no idea of the facts. Read Bleeding Orange and educate yourself.

While I would be the first to say tell it like it is, that doesn’t mean just throw stuff against the wall and see if it sticks. For threads to go on and on saying JB should leave, that the staff doesn’t know what they are doing, that we should hire a current head coach over Hop and any other negative some can think of makes me sick.

I’ll finish this post with a short excerpt from the book.

JB talks about “slippage”, things that can happen to a program causing it to falter. I quote from Bleeding Orange, what he says regarding slippage:

“It’s a combination of things, and I’ll tell you what exacerbates it more than anything: a fickle fan base. Nothing will wound a program quicker than a fan base that doesn’t stay loyal. We have always had that here, and it’s been a major factor in our success. You can have bad coaching years, bad recruiting years, bad playing years, but if your fan base stays behind you, there is almost no chance you won’t recover.”

When they write the story on this season, they can title it Bleeping Orange.
 
If we continue this trend, JB will be gone and we're in the lower middle or bottom of the ACC we'll be lucky to get more than 17k in the Dome for non marquee games. I'm willing to bet our average attendance the past couple of years is much lower than it was when we had ranked teams.

This shows how relative it all is and indirectly demonstrates the strength of the SU fan base and program. Many, many schools would LOVE to have 17k for a big game when their program is hitting on all cylinders. To put in perspective:

IU - Assembly Hall capacity is 17,222
Kansas - Phog Allen capacity is 16,300
Arizona - McKale center capacity is 14,545
Michigan State - Breslin Center capacity is 14,797

We're here debating that if the program falls to a mid-tier ACC program we'll have poor crowds of 17,000 for a Tuesday night against Cleveland State in November. Again, it's all relative when comparing it to crowds of 25,000+ on similar nights a few years ago.
 

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