Recruiting, Sanctions, JB, Hop, etc...

[pearl31]

If it was only up to JB, then our recruits as of late would only be the teammates of his kids, Jimmy Jr and Buddy.

Francis, I've stated multiple times through the years that I love what you do for the board. Your recruiting acumen is second to none.
But why post sh__ like this? Seriously, man - why the public over-the-top disrespect of JB and the staff? I get that you think SU recruiting is not where it should be. You've expressed it over and over and over...
it really comes down to two options - either you think JB has completely lost all ability to recruit and he's completely oblivious - or, he doesn't give a f___ about the program anymore and is essentially tanking it on purpose. so which is it?

 

[Francis03]

Francis, I've stated multiple times through the years that I love what you do for the board. Your recruiting acumen is second to none.
But why post sh__ like this? Seriously, man - why the public over-the-top disrespect of JB and the staff? I get that you think SU recruiting is not where it should be. You've expressed it over and over and over...
it really comes down to two options - either you think JB has completely lost all ability to recruit and he's completely oblivious - or, he doesn't give a f___ about the program anymore and is essentially tanking it on purpose. so which is it?

I see someone is getting a bit sensitive around here. How can posting "facts" become disrespectful to JB and the staff? I'm not getting personal or saying anything over the top about them. If you have an issue with my posts, then you can just skip over them or hit the ignore button. I respect JB, but the dude isn't my Pops or Jesus. Some of yall take this sports wayyy too seriously. Enjoy life, SU bball will eventually get back on track.

 

[Gotothehole]

I 100℅ agree. It seems people have been posting nonsense out of frustration recently. Does anyone have an update on Ayala? An article on . . . today had SU and UCONN as the frontrunners if he reclassified to 17 but he has a lot more options if he stays in 18. It looks to me like getting him in next year will be a real long shot.

Nonsense out of frustration? I recall the days when we used to get who we wanted. Now teams can come to the North East and grab who they want, and we left to pick up scraps. We have fallen off the map it what it is. JB needs to what’s best for the program so we can move on. We were ranked number one in the country in 2014, what year is it? This program need to get back on the stage where it belongs.

 

[Ward]

Francis, I've stated multiple times through the years that I love what you do for the board. Your recruiting acumen is second to none.
But why post sh__ like this? Seriously, man - why the public over-the-top disrespect of JB and the staff? I get that you think SU recruiting is not where it should be. You've expressed it over and over and over...
it really comes down to two options - either you think JB has completely lost all ability to recruit and he's completely oblivious - or, he doesn't give a f___ about the program anymore and is essentially tanking it on purpose. so which is it?

You're taking your frustrations out on the wrong person. Like he said, Francis is just posting facts on factors that resulted in our recruiting situation and many posters such as myself greatly appreciate the insight. There's nothing disrespectful about it. If anything I'd say Francis has been easy on the staff if you actually take a step back and look at their roster management over the past few years.

 

[pearl31]

I see someone is getting a bit sensitive around here. How can posting "facts" become disrespectful to JB and the staff? I'm not getting personal or saying anything over the top about them. If you have an issue with my posts, then you can just skip over them or hit the ignore button. I respect JB, but the dude isn't my Pops or Jesus. Some of yall take this sports wayyy too seriously. Enjoy life, SU bball will eventually get back on track.

Again Francis, I have ALWAYS respected and sought out your recruiting expertise. You're one of the best in the business.

Just saying that there's a time and place for the airing of ridicule. A public forum, dedicated to supporting SU, that is visited by rival fans and prospective recruits and prospective recruits' parents isn't it.

I don't think I'm the one being sensitive.

 

[pearl31]

I see someone is getting a bit sensitive around here. How can posting "facts" become disrespectful to JB and the staff? I'm not getting personal or saying anything over the top about them. If you have an issue with my posts, then you can just skip over them or hit the ignore button. I respect JB, but the dude isn't my Pops or Jesus. Some of yall take this sports wayyy too seriously. Enjoy life, SU bball will eventually get back on track.

and, also, you didn't answer the question :noidea:

 

[NineOneSeven]

Again Francis, I have ALWAYS respected and sought out your recruiting expertise. You're one of the best in the business.

Just saying that there's a time and place for the airing of ridicule. A public forum, dedicated to supporting SU, that is visited by rival fans and prospective recruits and prospective recruits' parents isn't it.

I don't think I'm the one being sensitive.

It's the internet. Welcome to it.

 

[Francis03]

Again Francis, I have ALWAYS respected and sought out your recruiting expertise. You're one of the best in the business.

Just saying that there's a time and place for the airing of ridicule. A public forum, dedicated to supporting SU, that is visited by rival fans and prospective recruits and prospective recruits' parents isn't it.

I don't think I'm the one being sensitive.

So when SU is having one of their worst seasons ever in which they missed out on all of their top targets in recruiting and now are looking at Plan C options, tell me when it is the appropriate time and place for fans to air out their frustrations and ridicule? Did I say anything that wasn't true? I'm not the one sleeping at various recruiting events or letting my assistants handle 95% of the recruiting groundwork. People are upset and constantly ask how did we find ourselves in this situation with the lack of depth/talent and the misses in recruiting. People are allowed to criticize JB from time to time you know, unless there is some rule that we can't around here? Funny how the post that got you all upset was actually me defending the staff when someone said that they couldn't recruit, but you called that disrespect smh.

 

[Francis03]

and, also, you didn't answer the question :noidea:

Well JB's actions on the recruiting tip over the years should let you know what it is with him at this point. You definitely don't need me to answer your question about that because it speaks for itself.

 

[Fly Rodder]

There's a Dilbert cartoon that my buddy has on his wall. They're in a meeting and discussing issues about what is going wrong. Someone says one thing and the other guy says, "I was hoping it would be something that isn't anyone's fault."

That's the conundrum. JAB is a human being and has been doing his job, exceptionally well, for a long time. However, everyone gets complacent at some point and aging can definitely lead to that. In our engineering firm we have a sizeable corporate structure with piles of VPs that have been with the company forever. They're in their 60s and 70s. They did a lot of good in their day, but they're also limiting growth now and not particularly productive these days. It's easy to skip a trip or two, or delegate more and more down to subordinates. And everything can be fine for a while, but at some point the rust starts to show and people wonder why there's this "sudden" problem. It's fruitless to ignore the problem or cover it over in an attempt to avoid having to blame someone. Avoiding potential real issues is simply detrimental.

 

[Brooky03]

I see someone is getting a bit sensitive around here. How can posting "facts" become disrespectful to JB and the staff? I'm not getting personal or saying anything over the top about them. If you have an issue with my posts, then you can just skip over them or hit the ignore button. I respect JB, but the dude isn't my Pops or Jesus. Some of yall take this sports wayyy too seriously. Enjoy life, SU bball will eventually get back on track.

I see your point and Pearl's. For the record, though, "If it was only up to JB, then our recruits as of late would only be the teammates of his kids, Jimmy Jr and Buddy." isn't a statement of 'fact', so you can't really get away with saying you were just posting facts.

 

[tee1222]

Francis03 pearl31
You guys are both awesome!

So let's squash this stuff the right way:

 

[Francis03]

I see your point and Pearl's. For the record, though, "If it was only up to JB, then our recruits as of late would only be the teammates of his kids, Jimmy Jr and Buddy." isn't a statement of 'fact', so you can't really get away with saying you were just posting facts.

Who is JB recruiting and evaluating then when he's only watching his kids and their teammates if the recruiting was left up to him?

 

[Francis03]

Francis03 pearl31
You guys are both awesome!

So let's squash this stuff the right way:

There is nothing to squash because it's not that serious to me. He had his to say, I responded and that's it. We can have a debate without things getting ugly.

 

[Janner]

I think people are looking a bit to deep into this, Francis is just pointing out that the effort is not where it should be on the recruiting trail from the head coach. At a time where we have restrictions with our coaches on the recruiting trail we need the leader and face of the program to be out as often as possible. It does not appear that that is occurring and its hurting our recruiting.

 

[RF2044]

There's a Dilbert cartoon that my buddy has on his wall. They're in a meeting and discussing issues about what is going wrong. Someone says one thing and the other guy says, "I was hoping it would be something that isn't anyone's fault."

That's the conundrum. JAB is a human being and has been doing his job, exceptionally well, for a long time. However, everyone gets complacent at some point and aging can definitely lead to that. In our engineering firm we have a sizeable corporate structure with piles of VPs that have been with the company forever. They're in their 60s and 70s. They did a lot of good in their day, but they're also limiting growth now and not particularly productive these days. It's easy to skip a trip or two, or delegate more and more down to subordinates. And everything can be fine for a while, but at some point the rust starts to show and people wonder why there's this "sudden" problem. It's fruitless to ignore the problem or cover it over in an attempt to avoid having to blame someone. Avoiding potential real issues is simply detrimental.

Good post, agree with this a lot.

The way this year has unfolded [and some of the criticism of JB from informed perspectives has come out], it reminds me a lot of something that I encounter in consulting, in organizations that have an executive or owner near the end of their career. These guys have been successful their entire lives, but things often slip late in terms of their performance. They cut corners, they're not quite as comprehensive in their analysis and get sloppier with their critical thinking because they are so confident in their experiential know-how, etc. Things slip, performance decreases, but still the dysfunction continues. In many of these cases, the very attributes / stubbornness that got them there and brought them tons of earlier success now works against them--they can't see the forest through the trees and often can't change, or they are at a point in their careers where they just don't have the willingness / capacity to dig in and do the heavy lifting anymore.

In some cases, others around them have to manage around their increasingly subpar performance that stems from their behavior, because they are the owner, a highly respected executive, etc. I think we're seeing some of that here.

And I agree 100% that JB has been doing his job exceptionally well for decades. We have been so lucky to have him. He's been the coach of the program my entire life, and I can't envision Syracuse basketball without him. But I think it is becoming more obvious that for as great of a game coach as he is, he's slipped in other areas of coaching [i.e., recruiting, managing off the court logistics, etc.]. Sad.

 

[pearl31]

There is nothing to squash because it's not that serious to me. He had his to say, I responded and that's it. We can have a debate without things getting ugly.

Right on, my man

 

[jr4750]

Good post, agree with this a lot.

The way this year has unfolded [and some of the criticism of JB from informed perspectives has come out], it reminds me a lot of something that I encounter in consulting, in organizations that have an executive or owner near the end of their career. These guys have been successful their entire lives, but things often slip late in terms of their performance. They cut corners, they're not quite as comprehensive in their analysis and get sloppier with their critical thinking because they are so confident in their experiential know-how, etc. Things slip, performance decreases, but still the dysfunction continues. In many of these cases, the very attributes / stubbornness that got them there and brought them tons of earlier success now works against them--they can't see the forest through the trees and often can't change, or they are at a point in their careers where they just don't have the willingness / capacity to dig in and do the heavy lifting anymore.

In some cases, others around them have to manage around their increasingly subpar performance that stems from their behavior, because they are the owner, a highly respected executive, etc. I think we're seeing some of that here.

And I agree 100% that JB has been doing his job exceptionally well for decades. We have been so lucky to have him. He's been the coach of the program my entire life, and I can't envision Syracuse basketball without him. But I think it is becoming more obvious that for as great of a game coach as he is, he's slipped in other areas of coaching [i.e., recruiting, managing off the court logistics, etc.]. Sad.

This statement is spot on. People have often said they hope JB sticks around beyond next year, and maybe that would be a good or bad thing. However, I think the strain to Hop and the assistants, who have done most of the heavy lifting, would erode chemistry, and perhaps already has a bit. Who knows? Without any knowledge if this is true at Cuse, I know personally, that it's super tough to work for someone with one foot out the door. Thankless in a way.

 

[Brooky03]

Who is JB recruiting and evaluating then when he's only watching his kids and their teammates if the recruiting was left up to him?

Like most other head coaches, I'd imagine he delegates a lot of the early recruiting. He sends coaches X and Y somewhere, they come back with their evaluations, he whittles down the list of targets with them, they stay in contact with the players, JB comes in to close the deal. What does him watching his sons play in high school have to do with this? How is the implication that he's ignorant of the recruiting process a fair characterization?

 

[Francis03]

Like most other head coaches, I'd imagine he delegates a lot of the early recruiting. He sends coaches X and Y somewhere, they come back with their evaluations, he whittles down the list of targets with them, they stay in contact with the players, JB comes in to close the deal. What does him watching his sons play in high school have to do with this? How is the implication that he's ignorant of the recruiting process a fair characterization?

Lol. There is nothing wrong with JB checking his kids out. That's what any father would do, but the issue is when as the HC he can't be bothered to watch any other recruits during the HS season for years now in passing. Calipari would watch his son in the NEPSAC last season, then fly out and watch his other recruiting targets. Kids nowadays are big on coaches showing them love and being a visible presence at their games. You can read that in quotes constantly from them. People can't sit there and wonder why SU is missing out on so many of their top targets as of late when the competitors are sending their head coaches to see the players, while JB is only sending out his assistants. When a five star like Lonnie Walker, who had us in his final five stated that he didn't know whether we wanted him or not in a class where guard depth is needed, can only occur when the HC is out of the loop because stuff like that isn't suppose to happen.

 

[manleyzoo]

Good post, agree with this a lot.

The way this year has unfolded [and some of the criticism of JB from informed perspectives has come out], it reminds me a lot of something that I encounter in consulting, in organizations that have an executive or owner near the end of their career. These guys have been successful their entire lives, but things often slip late in terms of their performance. They cut corners, they're not quite as comprehensive in their analysis and get sloppier with their critical thinking because they are so confident in their experiential know-how, etc. Things slip, performance decreases, but still the dysfunction continues. In many of these cases, the very attributes / stubbornness that got them there and brought them tons of earlier success now works against them--they can't see the forest through the trees and often can't change, or they are at a point in their careers where they just don't have the willingness / capacity to dig in and do the heavy lifting anymore.

In some cases, others around them have to manage around their increasingly subpar performance that stems from their behavior, because they are the owner, a highly respected executive, etc. I think we're seeing some of that here.

And I agree 100% that JB has been doing his job exceptionally well for decades. We have been so lucky to have him. He's been the coach of the program my entire life, and I can't envision Syracuse basketball without him. But I think it is becoming more obvious that for as great of a game coach as he is, he's slipped in other areas of coaching [i.e., recruiting, managing off the court logistics, etc.]. Sad.

JB's in good company with a number of top coaches who have maintained their game management skills but seemingly couldn't muster the energy to recruit as they once did. Gary Williams' recruiting fell way off at the end of his career, so did Calhoun's a bit, Thompson a lot, Lute Olson's. If you go back further, Denny Crum was great at Louisville but at the end he couldn't recruit at all. Even Wooden's recruiting slipped. Maybe Bo Ryan got out unscathed but most don't. Obviously, K and Roy are exceptions but there are more oldies unlike them in recruiting than like them.

 

[Brooky03]

Lol. There is nothing wrong with JB checking his kids out. That's what any father would do, but the issue is when as the HC he can't be bothered to watch any other recruits during the HS season for years now in passing. Calipari would watch his son in the NEPSAC last season, then fly out and watch his other recruiting targets. Kids nowadays are big on coaches showing them love and being a visible presence at their games. You can read that in quotes constantly from them. People can't sit there and wonder why SU is missing out on so many of their top targets as of late when the competitors are sending their head coaches to see the players, while JB is only sending out his assistants. When a five star like Lonnie Walker, who had us in his final five stated that he didn't know whether we wanted him or not in a class where guard depth is needed, can only occur when the HC is out of the loop because stuff like that isn't suppose to happen.

And none of this is related to the recruiting sanctions? What about the emphasis on AAU ball? Are high school games that important anymore?

 

[Francis03]

And none of this is related to the recruiting sanctions? What about the emphasis on AAU ball? Are high school games that important anymore?

If you want to use sanctions as an excuse then as Janner said here, Recruiting, Sanctions, JB, Hop, etc... the sanctions should've given JB a boost to be more visible than he has been to let recruits know that he's not fading away. The fact that you even asked if high school games are important anymore lets me know that this should be my last response to you. You only have a limited amount of days in the spring/summer that you can watch and attend an AAU event in person.

 

[HOFCeluck]

You can read that in quotes constantly from them. People can't sit there and wonder why SU is missing out on so many of their top targets as of late when the competitors are sending their head coaches to see the players, while JB is only sending out his assistants. .

Toward the end, Maryland fans were saying the exact same thing about Gary Williams. I never thought JB would go out like that,

 

[syrcuse]

I think people are looking a bit to deep into this, Francis is just pointing out that the effort is not where it should be on the recruiting trail from the head coach. At a time where we have restrictions with our coaches on the recruiting trail we need the leader and face of the program to be out as often as possible. It does not appear that that is occurring and its hurting our recruiting.

BINGO!!!
And the sanctions??? Under who's watch did this happen??? If you are dealt or given less tools...YOU SHOULD BE WORKING HARDER. Not less.....