Remember this game during the February slump

[tbonezone]

well if you're talking stats then there's zero evidence cooney can consistently drill the 3 in game situations. so there we are.

 

[jekelish]

well if you're talking stats then there's zero evidence cooney can consistently drill the 3 in game situations. so there we are.

Right, the guy who led the ACC in made three pointers last season. We have zero evidence he can make threes. Good call.

Look, Cooney is frustrating as hell. I get that. But let's not put him in remotely the same category as two guys who people are just guessing can make threes based on what they've heard about practice.

EDIT: Seriously, I get how frustrating Cooney's inconsistent jumper has been. Right now, he's pretty clearly got some fundamental flaws with his mechanics. But to say there's no evidence he can hit threes in a game is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board. I'm not a Cooney apologist, and in fact I've gone on record numerous times about how I think there are problems with his mechanics (when he started hot last year, I said on this forum he wouldn't finish the year above 40%), but some people just go out of their way to tear that kid down. It's absurd.

EDIT 2: Also, in two seasons so far, with most of his attempts coming against crappy competition, BJ is 6-of-29 from three. That's a pretty big sample size, against subpar competition. And I'm not knocking BJ - I think he has a chance to be a Demetris Nichols type, because Demetris struggled a bit early in his career too. But let's not just suddenly assert that he's as good a game shooter as Cooney has been (and, again, that's factoring in Cooney's wild inconsistency, which I again attribute to the flaws with his mechanics and the fact that he's gotten too bulked up so it's killed his fluidity and flexibility).

 

[Jack Hall]

"Two other guys who can make shots."

Says who? We have zero evidence that Patterson or Johnson can consistently make three pointers in actual game situations, against even decent competition. I love the whole "the guys on the bench are being wasted!" argument, it's like how the backup QB is always the most popular player on a football team.

Look - I think that BJ is going to be a solid player, and Buss will be fine as well...but they've looked pretty mediocre against actual competition. And BJ couldn't get in yesterday because he's simply lost on the back line of the zone right now.

There's ZERO EVIDENCE that anyone else can make threes in a game, yet people are going on and on about how good BJ and Buss are as three point shooters despite all signs pointing, right now at least, to the contrary.

I hear your pt and i more or less agree w you but we still have to see the other perspective. And the other perspective is that the ONLY player to have a big 3 pt shooting night was RP, altho it was only an exhib it was against a pretty decent Carleton team that imo was better than our opponents in the first two "games". Also BJ is shooting a better 3 pt percentage than two of our other guard/wing players- KJ and G. And BJs 3 pt shooting % is close to TCs. So from that perspective you might argue that no one "can make threes in a game" . My only point being i hope BJ and RP get playing time and are developed to some degree during the course of the whole season. And i hope they EARN that privilege in practice. Another way to put it, when a team struggles this much thru 4 games to hit outside shots, i dont think we are in a position to limit our options. Doesnt make sense to me

 

[tbonezone]

#1 cooney's average ain't great for a shooter. #2 i used the word consistent in that sentence.

 

[jekelish]

#1 cooney's average ain't great for a shooter. #2 i used the word consistent in that sentence.

Right. Because Buss and BJ going a combined 13-of-56 for their careers is more consistent than a dude who has made 129 threes and shot 34%.

Get over your f**king Cooney hate. He's not Andy Rautins or GMac, but holy hell man. Give me a freaking break.

EDIT: By the way, GMac's career 3 PT% at SU? 35%. Rautins? 37%. I guess those "ain't great for a shooter" either, then.

 

[tbonezone]

well gmac forced way too many shots. as does trevor . they do compare in that respect.
40% should be benchmark for a designated shooter.

 

[jekelish]

well gmac forced way too many shots. as does trevor . they do compare in that respect.
40% should be benchmark for a designated shooter.

When's the last time we had a designated shooter hit 40%? Marius Janulis?

 

[tbonezone]

cooney's avg is 34% deep. and only 38% overall.

 

[KaiserUEO]

well gmac forced way too many shots. as does trevor . they do compare in that respect.
40% should be benchmark for a designated shooter.

Explain.

 

[jekelish]

cooney's avg is 34%

Yes, as I said. Nice reading comprehension. GMac's was 35. Rautins shot 37. You pointing out a stat that I already pointed out several posts ago is just bizarre.

 

[Jack Hall]

well gmac forced way too many shots. as does trevor . they do compare in that respect.
40% should be benchmark for a designated shooter.

We have really struggled to replace JS as a "designated shooter". I really thought TC would be that guy, esp after our 25-0 start last season. But jekel is correct, since that time TCs mechanics have regressed and i have no idea why or why it hasnt been fixed. Safe to say TC will be our best 2 guard this season but if we dont find another shooter it could be a long season obviously

 

[jekelish]

We have really struggled to replace JS as a "designated shooter". I really thought TC would be that guy, esp after our 25-0 start last season. But jekel is correct, since that time TCs mechanics have regressed and i have no idea why or why it hasnt been fixed. Safe to say TC will be our best 2 guard this season but if we dont find another shooter it could be a long season obviously

This isn't directed at you, just the "designated shooter should hit such and such": Southerland hit 37% for his career. So he fell short of 40, too, and therefore was never a great shooter it would seem.

EDIT: Even Janulis, who is probably the most pure "designated shooter" we've ever had, only reached 40% once in his four year career (he was 39.9 another season, so I'm willing to round it up and say twice in four years).

Just wanted to point that out.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Derek freakin Brower shot 60% from 3!!!!

That should be the minimum.

 

[Alsacs]

GMac was hybrid PG/SG and Cooney is a SG not a good comparison. If Cooney played less minutes everything would be fine for me. The kid plays hard but his defense is decent not great I just wish JB treated him like he does other players. Roberson screws up he gets pulled Cooney consistently forces off balanced shots and never gets pulled.
I can understand JB giving Gerry tenure status as the kid was a starter on a NC winner his FReshman year. Cooney is a decent player but is treated like he is the only option. Mike G can play PG,SG,SF and Johnson can play SF or Patterson SG. Cooney got more PT as the 3rd guy behind MCW and Triche than Patterson/Johnson have gotten.

Now yesterday was all about JB not wanting 0-2 to salvage our NCAA resume but our youth needs minutes to develop as Cooney doesn't need to be a 35+ mpg player high 20s/low 30s is fine.

 

[tbonezone]

just google ncaa leading 3 point shooting % 2013 and burn out the batteries of your mouse scrolling down to trevor cooney.

 

[Jack Hall]

This isn't directed at you, just the "designated shooter should hit such and such": Southerland hit 37% for his career. So he fell short of 40, too, and therefore was never a great shooter it would seem.

I couldnt tell you what he shot his last two years but i thought he was right around 40% and to me he was a huge part of us going to a FF and an elite 8 in back to back seasons for the first time ever.

TC will have to shoot it better this season than he has so far. And i think he will. Imo you hit the nail on the head, its mechanics so its very fixable. But what i fear is even if TC does improve his mechanics and shoots better than he has so far, we STILL need a second legitimate outside shooting threat. Imo KJ, G, RP and or BJ better hit the gym and get it done

 

[tbonezone]

sadly southerland wasn't consistent either.

 

[Jack Hall]

sadly southerland wasn't consistent either.

So we ve only had two consistent shooters in JBs time? Janulius and Roe? Is that what you are saying? Anyone else?

This team would be much better (last years too) if we had JS. He was not great in his consistency but that guy could get it going and completely change how teams had to defend us. Defenders followed JS 25-30 ft from the basket. Teams are no longer following TC (imo they were for awhile last season) that far away and that changes the defensive spacing.

 

[KaiserUEO]

just google ncaa leading 3 point shooting % 2013 and burn out the batteries of your mouse scrolling down to trevor cooney.

What???

He shot 240 last year and STILL made 37.5%!!

Stop the nonsense!!

 

[cliftonparksufan]

This isn't directed at you, just the "designated shooter should hit such and such": Southerland hit 37% for his career. So he fell short of 40, too, and therefore was never a great shooter it would seem.

EDIT: Even Janulis, who is probably the most pure "designated shooter" we've ever had, only reached 40% once in his four year career (he was 39.9 another season, so I'm willing to round it up and say twice in four years).

Just wanted to point that out.

Yes, I don't get why 40% should be the magic number. For instance if you shoot 100 2 point shots and hit 50% of them you score 100 points. If you shoot 100 3 point shots and make 35% of them you have scored 105 points. Not to mention that you give your team 15 more opportunities to get an offensive rebound. Just saying.

 

[Jack Hall]

Yes, I don't get why 40% should be the magic number. For instance if you shoot 100 2 point shots and hit 50% of them you score 100 points. If you shoot 100 3 point shots and make 35% of them you have scored 105 points. Not to mention that you give your team 15 more opportunities to get an offensive rebound. Just saying.

If we had just two guys to hit 35% or higher i think we would have a great chance of making the ncaas and going farther than last yrs team. Putting an exact # on it is very difficult but safe to say we have to shoot better than we have thru 4 games so far

 

[SWC75]

well gmac forced way too many shots. as does trevor . they do compare in that respect.
40% should be benchmark for a designated shooter.

Not getting it here. Would you have played Johnson or Patterson in place of GMAC because he forced too many shots?

 

[tbonezone]

"Jack Hall, post: 1202802, member: 3962"]So we ve only had two consistent shooters in JBs time? Janulius and Roe? Is that what you are saying? Anyone else?"

shumpert was pretty good. championship team had gerry ,carmelo and duany shooting mid thirties. had to respect that.

 

[br801]

What???

He shot 240 last year and STILL made 37.5%!!

Stop the nonsense!!

Exactly. I'll sign up for that percentage from a power conference guy shooting about eight 3s per game any time, particularly if he's on a team with few proven deep threats.

 

[OrangeFoo]

What???

He shot 240 last year and STILL made 37.5%!!

Stop the nonsense!!

There is a very obvious flaw in those stats.. in ACC play Conney shot 31% om threes and his 2 point percentage was a scorching 35% for a grand total of 34% shooting. We are going nowhere in the ACC with a shooting guard who shoots less than 35% overall. If we dig in even deeper I bet Cooney's shooting looks even worse because he had a few really big games early in ACC play before falling completely off the table towards the end. Basically Cooney was a very good player at the beginning of last year and was a really bad player by the end of the year. This year he looks like a worse version of the player he was last year so I can only imagine what happens in the ACC. If Cooney doesn't improve we need to get another starting 2 guard for ACC play.