Respecting vs hero worshiping HNHCSS

[OttoinGrotto]

I think so far that Shafer is doing the right things to win people over and establish the right tone for a rising program, and has an awesome fan friendly sidekick in Cool Kid McDonald. I had some big reservations about naming him HC without a sufficient search for external candidates, but I just have to trust that the AD carried out proper due diligence and that Shafer really was the best choice. So far, everything looks good.

In the past I haven't been afraid to be critical of Marrone. Part of it was because there were things that appeared unsettling that I felt merited criticism. A really big part of it was also because I felt there was a really unbalanced level of adoration for the guy. He was put on a pedestal and received a lot of accolades and trust very early on that frankly was undeserved. This high level of praise combined with immediate excuse of many criticisms really warped how Marrone should be viewed and the context for evaluating him as a coach. People were viewing him in the same light as Boeheim - problem was, he didn't have JB's accomplishments. It made expectations for performance unfair, and we're seeing now the fallout from how unfair certain expectations for character and personality became, since so many are now so disappointed in Marrone for not being what many thought he was.

That's not his fault. We're responsible for that. I think overall we'll be a happier fan base if we claim Shafer as our guy, but leave it at that. He's our guy. He's not our program savior. He's not the next Schwartzwalder. He probably won't be the Jim Boeheim of SU football, longevity wise and that shouldn't be expected of anybody. He's a passionate guy that is happy to be at Syracuse with his family. He seems to be a pretty good coach that has assembled a pretty good staff that is trying to bring pretty good players in to represent the University on the field. He's a fun guy to support. He's ready to be a head coach.

He's not worthy of worship or blind faith. He'll make mistakes, and it's ok to talk about them. We should all bask in the success he brings. He is a football coach that we can and should admire.

Let's get this right as fans this time.

 

[44PRIDE]

Completely agree.

I've stated elswhere that while I like the direction HCSS is going, I'm going to reserve judgement of him until he can string together a few wins.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Completely agree.

I've stated elswhere that while I like the direction HCSS is going, I'm going to reserve judgement of him until he can string together a few wins.

And that's completely fair.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I'm all in baby!!

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Well stated. I'm as hardnosed as the next guy, but I want to see some wins and bowl games before naming my next son Scott Hardnosed MFer (the First).

 

[Rocco]

The best thing he has done for the program so far is reopen the doors to former players and cordially invite all of them to practices/functions/meetings/etc. Huge.

 

[Scooch]

Your post and its abject negativity is directly responsible for killing the program.

I HOPE YOU CAN LIVE WITH YOURSELF.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Your post and its abject negativity is directly responsible for killing the program.

I HOPE YOU CAN LIVE WITH YOURSELF.

Well, it's difficult, but I find a way.

 

[TheCusian]

I think so far that Shafer is doing the right things to win people over and establish the right tone for a rising program, and has an awesome fan friendly sidekick in Cool Kid McDonald. I had some big reservations about naming him HC without a sufficient search for external candidates, but I just have to trust that the AD carried out proper due diligence and that Shafer really was the best choice. So far, everything looks good.

In the past I haven't been afraid to be critical of Marrone. Part of it was because there were things that appeared unsettling that I felt merited criticism. A really big part of it was also because I felt there was a really unbalanced level of adoration for the guy. He was put on a pedestal and received a lot of accolades and trust very early on that frankly was undeserved. This high level of praise combined with immediate excuse of many criticisms really warped how Marrone should be viewed and the context for evaluating him as a coach. People were viewing him in the same light as Boeheim - problem was, he didn't have JB's accomplishments. It made expectations for performance unfair, and we're seeing now the fallout from how unfair certain expectations for character and personality became, since so many are now so disappointed in Marrone for not being what many thought he was.

That's not his fault. We're responsible for that. I think overall we'll be a happier fan base if we claim Shafer as our guy, but leave it at that. He's our guy. He's not our program savior. He's not the next Schwartzwalder. He probably won't be the Jim Boeheim of SU football, longevity wise and that shouldn't be expected of anybody. He's a passionate guy that is happy to be at Syracuse with his family. He seems to be a pretty good coach that has assembled a pretty good staff that is trying to bring pretty good players in to represent the University on the field. He's a fun guy to support. He's ready to be a head coach.

He's not worthy of worship or blind faith. He'll make mistakes, and it's ok to talk about them. We should all bask in the success he brings. He is a football coach that we can and should admire.

Let's get this right as fans this time.

To stand up for our adulation of the Marrone, I'd simply state: Greg Robinson would make us cling to whomever the next coach would have been.

These days are different. I think we have our eyes wide open about SS. So far, I've been impressed. But it will be wins, recruiting, and character (in that order) that will win my respect.

 

[All4SU]

I have no problem going all in. Syracuse is my team, and he's my coach. I'm not really from the "Show Me" school. I'm all in until I have good reason not to be.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Meh. I mean, I agree with you in principle. Being logical about a coach and what he means to the program is good. Problem is, most fans aren't logical, nor should they be. I don't think it's wrong for people to blindly follow, that's what some fans do. Other fans tend to be critical. Some are judgmental and belligerent. It is what it is, that's what fandom is all about. I'm past the "hero worship" phase of my life, but I'm not going to begrudge someone who isn't. Just like I don't judge someone who is critical, or worse - blindly negative. It's all part of being a fan, and I've been all three of those things to a varying degree at different parts of my life. He'll, I was all three of those things during the USF game last year! That's being a fan, and I get a chuckle at people on here who get so irritated at people that don't think like them when it comes to the way they cheer (or diss) the coach and the team.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I have no problem going all in. Syracuse is my team, and he's my coach. I'm not really from the "Show Me" school. I'm all in until I have good reason not to be.

Fantastic new avatar, let's just make that clear up front.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be all in on believing that Shafer will be successful as a coach. We absolutely should.

My main point is that we shouldn't let that bleed into misrepresenting who Shafer really is in an unfair manner. Separate the coach from the man. We don't need to deify him. With Marrone, it wasn't enough for some fans to express confidence in him as a coach - they also felt the need to make him Superman. He was supposed to be a lifer, someone perfectly loyal, someone that's exceptionally high moral character was a product and representative of attending Syracuse University. That makes the way some recent things can be perceived out to be so much worse. He didn't fail anybody as a coach, but for some fans he arguably failed them by not being something more that they thought he was. That's not really on him. That's on us fans for letting expectations get out of whack. Let's learn from it and do better by Shafer. I understand that people feel after Robinson we needed someone to believe in, I just think it went too far and hope we don't collectively make the same mistake.

 

[RMH44]

I have no problem going all in. Syracuse is my team, and he's my coach. I'm not really from the "Show Me" school. I'm all in until I have good reason not to be.

Well said All4.

Like you, SU is my team and SS is our coach, therefore, I'm all in as well.

 

[All4SU]

Fantastic new avatar, let's just make that clear up front.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be all in on believing that Shafer will be successful as a coach. We absolutely should.

My main point is that we shouldn't let that bleed into misrepresenting who Shafer really is in an unfair manner. Separate the coach from the man. We don't need to deify him. With Marrone, it wasn't enough for some fans to express confidence in him as a coach - they also felt the need to make him Superman. He was supposed to be a lifer, someone perfectly loyal, someone that's exceptionally high moral character was a product and representative of attending Syracuse University. That makes the way some recent things can be perceived out to be so much worse. He didn't fail anybody as a coach, but for some fans he arguably failed them by not being something more that they thought he was. That's not really on him. That's on us fans for letting expectations get out of whack. Let's learn from it and do better by Shafer. I understand that people feel after Robinson we needed someone to believe in, I just think it went too far and hope we don't collectively make the same mistake.

Agree. I don't deify anyone.

 

[RMH44]

Fantastic new avatar, let's just make that clear up front.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be all in on believing that Shafer will be successful as a coach. We absolutely should.

My main point is that we shouldn't let that bleed into misrepresenting who Shafer really is in an unfair manner. Separate the coach from the man. We don't need to deify him. With Marrone, it wasn't enough for some fans to express confidence in him as a coach - they also felt the need to make him Superman. He was supposed to be a lifer, someone perfectly loyal, someone that's exceptionally high moral character was a product and representative of attending Syracuse University. That makes the way some recent things can be perceived out to be so much worse. He didn't fail anybody as a coach, but for some fans he arguably failed them by not being something more that they thought he was. That's not really on him. That's on us fans for letting expectations get out of whack. Let's learn from it and do better by Shafer. I understand that people feel after Robinson we needed someone to believe in, I just think it went too far and hope we don't collectively make the same mistake.

Man you're reaching with this as well as your OP.

Hero worship? Really? Ridiculously silly. This is college FB...not a panel honoring returning war veterans or our first responders. Perspective.

I'll always remember that you admitted on this board that you're a "style over substance" guy. It looks like you're simply prepping the masses for your negatives diatribes if/when the losses begin or, heaven forbid, you don't like the style of play employed.

Thankfully your "Cool Kid McDonald" moniker hasn't stuck...ever notice you're the only who uses it?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I don't get the post, we are fans of Syracuse football. We aren't making business decisions here or investing in the market. People can support or not in anyway they want...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Man you're reaching with this as well as your OP.

Hero worship? Really? Ridiculously silly. This is college FB...not a panel honoring returning war veterans or our first responders. Perspective.

I'll always remember that you admitted on this board that you're a "style over substance" guy. It looks like you're simply prepping the masses for your negatives diatribes if/when the losses begin or, heaven forbid, you don't like the style of play employed.

Thankfully your "Cool Kid McDonald" moniker hasn't stuck...ever notice you're the only who uses it?

The exact thing that I'm proposing is that people have perspective. The hero worship and man love for Marrone at times here was way over the top. If you deny that, I don't know, your man love has blinded you I guess. Let's not do that with Shafer.

As for style over substance - sports are meant to be entertaining and fun. Having style that's fun and entertaining with little substance beats tons of substance with a style that's not fun or entertaining. That's not a difficult concept, or even unreasonable.

It brings me great personal joy to refer to McDonald as Cool Kid. If it is a personal nickname that I didn't even coin and nobody else ever uses it, I'm content. Typing out Cool Kid McDonald is FUN and ENTERTAINING and is a style yes across the board, and if you didn't feel that when you typed out your attempt to insult me you should probably see a doctor, because your heart is dying.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[qdawgg]

Guys, tone down the negativity so we don't lose any recruits from NYC or western NY.

Please.

 

[GoSU96]

Fantastic new avatar, let's just make that clear up front.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be all in on believing that Shafer will be successful as a coach. We absolutely should.

My main point is that we shouldn't let that bleed into misrepresenting who Shafer really is in an unfair manner. Separate the coach from the man. We don't need to deify him. With Marrone, it wasn't enough for some fans to express confidence in him as a coach - they also felt the need to make him Superman. He was supposed to be a lifer, someone perfectly loyal, someone that's exceptionally high moral character was a product and representative of attending Syracuse University. That makes the way some recent things can be perceived out to be so much worse. He didn't fail anybody as a coach, but for some fans he arguably failed them by not being something more that they thought he was. That's not really on him. That's on us fans for letting expectations get out of whack. Let's learn from it and do better by Shafer. I understand that people feel after Robinson we needed someone to believe in, I just think it went too far and hope we don't collectively make the same mistake.

Who thought he was Superman? Yeesh.

 

[RMH44]

The exact thing that I'm proposing is that people have perspective. The hero worship and man love for Marrone at times here was way over the top. If you deny that, I don't know, your man love has blinded you I guess. Let's not do that with Shafer.

As for style over substance - sports are meant to be entertaining and fun. Having style that's fun and entertaining with little substance beats tons of substance with a style that's not fun or entertaining. That's not a difficult concept, or even unreasonable.

It brings me great personal joy to refer to McDonald as Cool Kid. If it is a personal nickname that I didn't even coin and nobody else ever uses it, I'm content. Typing out Cool Kid McDonald is FUN and ENTERTAINING and is a style yes across the board, and if you didn't feel that when you typed out your attempt to insult me you should probably see a doctor, because your heart is dying.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Please...if I intended to insult you, there would be absolutely no ambiguity. I was simply stating a fact.

 

[GoSU96]

The hero worship and man love for Marrone at times here was way over the top.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

What are you talking about?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about how the hero worship and man love for Marrone has been way over the top here at times, Go. And we shouldn't do that to Shafer.

I... how could I... there's no way that's not clear.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Who thought he was Superman? Yeesh.

Uh... well, you.

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[anomander]

why wouldn't the fan base have been "all in" with Marrone. We went from the bowels of college football to a Bowl game win in 2 years with very limited talent. What the man did was a minor miracle. I forget what the exact quote was, but it was something like get me average talent and I will win with that. In a way the man did deserve to be worshiped. So what he took a job in the NFL, or didn't draft his college qb, he left this school in a far better spot then it was when he took over. Not many people could do what he did, and definitely not in the relatively short time.

 

[TheCusian]

This is a horrible analogy, but here goes: If you ever with a girl you'd thought you'd marry and it didn't work out - there's this period where you swear you'll never go through that shat again. People tell you "it's better to have loved than lost" and you want to punch them in the face.

But there is some truth to it - and over time you realize - that's the only way it actually works. To go all in, even if you get your ass dumped again.

As fans, we want to be all in with our team. It's the only real way to roll. If that means taking a coach for his word, "drinking the kool-aid"? I guess you have to do it. You can be skeptical, have your eyes wide open about the thing - but eventually being a fan requires that you believe in your coach, fully. (Not above reproach, mind you - but benefit of the doubt, trust).

Otherwise, you're just the guy who thinks Boeheim should play man more often.