SU football

[nzm136]

I know what it means.

I don't quite understand what your meant by it in that context. Typically in this scenario the Kool Aid drinkers would be the ones supporting Shafer.

But no matter.

"I have no idea what the Kool Aid quip means." - You

...and no, it literally means to blindly follow someone without questioning them (i.e. our AD), usually as part of a group (i.e. popular opinion on this site) - hence the derivation of the term from cult suicides. So, I'm still not convinced that you have grasped the concept yet, but what else is new?

 

[Scooch]

"I have no idea what the Kool Aid quip means." - You ...and no, it literally means to blindly follow someone without questioning them (i.e. our AD), usually as part of a group (i.e. popular opinion on this site) - hence the derivation of the term from cult suicides. So, I'm still not convinced that you have grasped the concept yet, but what else is new?

I am very aware of Jonestown and the mass suicide conducted using Kool Aid. It's a tired cliche used in business as well. Obviously I meant that I had no idea why you said those in support of firing Shafer were drinking Kool Aid?

One could say that those who supported Shafer, he of the 7-17 record, were following him blindly as well. No?

 

[DoctorBombay]

This decision could've gone either way , IMHO, and each side could make a valid, cogent argument on keeping or firing HCSS. And much like the OP, for reasons already stated, I would've given HCSS another year.
I'm over all that now...and ready, excited really, to move on.
All faith in ADCoyle- I think (hope) he'll do a great job.

 

[mountaincuse]

I love Scott shafer and was emotional to see him end his reign today, but it was still a three and a half hour rock fight against a terrible team to get to that point. That puts it into perspective to me, we needed to make a change to be better long term.

I was able to read the letter he wrote to parents last night and it was exactly what I would expect it to have been. The guy gets it in terms of building a team and family atmosphere, he just wasn't able to translate it on the field. A parent said today; I understand is a business and I hope we get the right guy, but I'm glad my son had nine months of shafer in his life than not.

I really, really wish he was the guy, but unfortunately it didn't work out.

Let's just appreciate Scott for what he was and his devotion to our program.

 

[richard levy]

Please continue posting. I disagree with your premise but like hearing people's opinions.
Nobody is right or wrong. That is the Beauty of being a fan.
I would though ask what your definition of objective is?
Some people you listed I would agree are objective but I don't know if you mean objective or they agree with you.
I didn't like the hiring of SS I thought he was a cheap hire and we gambled. The guy was a honorable guy and I respect the person but he didn't scream P5 HC.
We are a few plays from 6-6 and 2-10. That is why a change happened.
I am happy SS got his moment in the sun at the end. He deserved that ending but the fact is we are 14-23 and I don't believe SS would have ever gotten his career record to .500 while at Syracuse.
Go luck to him in the future at Illinois or Michigan but I believe the proper decision was made.
Please continue posting though.

Admittedly , I am bad at keeping score, but most teams this year are a play or two from having better records, Bama, mich st, fl st, Michigan, probably more. Yes, that is the nature of sports. Unfortunately, SS was unlucky with things he couldn't control, injuries, new AD, and IMHO, scheduling

 

[richard levy]

I like reading the board but hardly ever post as there are so many detractors who feel they are being attacked if someone does not agree with them.

I am one who still feels Scott Shafer was the right choice for head coach. I believe he was right to look for an extension of at least two years so he could look at continuity. Unfortunately it was not granted. The pressure of knowing he would be fired I believe led to some erratic decision making after game 6 and on the field frustration. A few calls at USF and Virginia and we could have been 5-1 without our starting quarterback.
I know it did not happen as you will all remind me. His hiring of George McDonald was not a great decision but at the time everyone thought it was wonderful. Dreams of the Florida pipeline.

Tim Lester is a very good offensive coordinator who looked at quarterbacks like AJ Long, Womack , Culpepper and Scott to be the exact type of quarterback Oregon employs. He also brought in skilled h-backs and a good running back in Fredericks. Some of the young offensive lineman will also be very good.

The defense was very questionable and thin again this year. When you have 205 lb. linebackers and rush ends who cannot stop the run you are in trouble. Your defensive backs are small and run 4.8 to 4.9 forties necessitating them dropping off of receivers or pressing the line and getting beat. Playing true freshmen and sophmores who have had very little time in the weight room or practice reps will never get it done. These are not 4 and 5 star kids who may be nineteen or twenty years old.

Unfortunately we will never get many of these kids but I believe Scott Shafer was on the right track and especially last year brought in some really good kids who bought into him and his staff and will develop into really good college players. Some will say he should have brought in more jc players but again the really good jc players are pipelined to other schools not SU.

So getting way to long but have been a SU fan since 1959 and will always be but the transition to the ACC was a pure money grab which benefitted neither sport. comparison who our conference schedule would have been in conference USA. It doesn't take a genius to see what schedule will always be more favorable.

Jekelih, Cuse Legacy, Tomcat and others thank you for being so objective unfortunately you are never the majority anymore.

GO SU beat BC and god bless you Scott Shafer you are a victim of money and sports and integrity almost always loses.

Great post. I wholeheartedly agree with your first statement. Painful to read replys to some posts. Only look forward to reading a handful of posts , tomcat, swc, used to like jackbauer, a few others.

 

[nzm136]

I am very aware of Jonestown and the mass suicide conducted using Kool Aid. It's a tired cliche used in business as well. Obviously I meant that I had no idea why you said those in support of firing Shafer were drinking Kool Aid?

One could say that those who supported Shafer, he of the 7-17 record, were following him blindly as well. No?

1. Yeah, that's very obvious. You very clearly don't fully grasp the meaning of the term.
2. You could say that wanting to keep him would be drinking the kool aid if you can find a large group (i.e. popular opinion on this site) - hence the derivation of the term from cult suicides - that was in favor of keeping HCSS. As per the poll taken and the constant screaming for his head, that group doesn't exist. As it stands, the pro HCSS crowd is pretty small and very much leaderless.

 

[Scooch]

Not worth it. Enjoy your night.

 

[jkm54]

I really dislike the pro-Shafer/ anti-Shafer stuff on here. The guy i believe genuinely put everything into trying to give us, the community, the football team we all could be proud of. Regardless of success, for that and for that alone, he at least deserves our respect.

 

[leftytg]

Not worth it. Enjoy your night.

You know that scene in Dumb and Dumber, when Harry approaches Mary at the party. She asks him if he is a bird lover, and Harry says, "my main area of expertise is canines...dogs to the layperson".


That's the only thing I could think of reading the explanation of kool aid drinking. That someone genuinely thought that needed an explanation is hilarious, much like the scene from Dumb and Dumber.

 

[Shenexon]

I think that really belittles Coyle's ability to objectively evaluate the program. You think he made an emotional decision?

I think Coyle was charged with making football competitive & popular, was diligent in devising an assessment of the program, and made a decision. I respect his decisiveness and hope & expect he chose wisely. Seems like emotions would have been a factor in his analysis but one factor among many. Coyle seems like a smart guy that has a plan in coordination with Syverud, which is what he was hired to do. I will always be a Shafer fan but like having a pro-active AD who has a vision and is capable of bringing that vision to life. Best wishes and appreciation to all involved. I wish you success...

 

[Gooorange]

Want to say why?

A new AD with most sports humming along, facilities upgraded with talk of Dome upgrade to be announced, already in the ACC...what is there for Coyle to do? Gotta make your mark in football (which we all agree with), but most football folks I have heard voice their opinion, including former players, ACC coaches, etc, say that building SU football is a much like swimming upriver. Takes a while to turn the ship so to speak. Shafer had to deal with injuries not seen by many, all while trying to improve the overall talent base, while also transitioning into a big boy conference. That's a lot to deal with, and we still won 4 games when most predicted 5 wins for the season.

Coyle took the easy route that limited criticism and allows him political cover for a few years.

All that said, what's done is done, turn the page and hit the reset button yet again...Gooornge!

 

[Scooch]

A new AD with most sports humming along, facilities upgraded with talk of Dome upgrade to be announced, already in the ACC...what is there for Coyle to do? Gotta make your mark in football (which we all agree with), but most football folks I have heard voice their opinion, including former players, ACC coaches, etc, say that building SU football is a much like swimming upriver. Takes a while to turn the ship so to speak. Shafer had to deal with injuries not seen by many, all while trying to improve the overall talent base, while also transitioning into a big boy conference. That's a lot to deal with, and we still won 4 games when most predicted 5 wins for the season. Coyle took the easy route that limited criticism and allows him political cover for a few years. All that said, what's done is done, turn the page and hit the reset button yet again...Gooornge!

OK.

Sounds like the football situation was a significant part of the AD interview process, so I'm not sure this is Coyle looking out for Coyle as much as it is the direction our Chancellor, BOT and others influential at SU wanted to go in.

 

[GoSU96]

I think that really belittles Coyle's ability to objectively evaluate the program. You think he made an emotional decision?

Don't worry, that's the guy that thinks what Robinson tried to do is what Frost or a MAC spread HC would do.

 

[mountaincuse]

A new AD with most sports humming along, facilities upgraded with talk of Dome upgrade to be announced, already in the ACC...what is there for Coyle to do? Gotta make your mark in football (which we all agree with), but most football folks I have heard voice their opinion, including former players, ACC coaches, etc, say that building SU football is a much like swimming upriver. Takes a while to turn the ship so to speak. Shafer had to deal with injuries not seen by many, all while trying to improve the overall talent base, while also transitioning into a big boy conference. That's a lot to deal with, and we still won 4 games when most predicted 5 wins for the season.

Coyle took the easy route that limited criticism and allows him political cover for a few years.

All that said, what's done is done, turn the page and hit the reset button yet again...Gooornge!

He did not take the easy route, that would have been keeping the lovable coach on board. He made a tough decision, one that was probably best, and is owning it.

Huge deal pulling the trigger now with all the other openings, etc.

Keep the course, we're probably better next year. Make a move and who knows, but a couple years out we're better if all goes right.

It's pretty risky.

 

[SU44EVER]

He did not take the easy route, that would have been keeping the lovable coach on board. He made a tough decision, one that was probably best, and is owning it.

Huge deal pulling the trigger now with all the other openings, etc.

Keep the course, we're probably better next year. Make a move and who knows, but a couple years out we're better if all goes right.

It's pretty risky.

Funny just got home and do not think some people understand at all and will end with this. I will never know Mark Coyle and will still keep my tickets and love SU, but Scott Shafer was building something but was cut short. We are and will always be a mid level ACC program. We will never contend for championships but that is okay.
We took a lot of money.

To belittle Scott Shafer and his coaching staff is ridiculous. They are a great staff who graduated kids and were bringing in great kids that we could be proud of. He should have been given more time . He was respected by other coaches in the ACC and would have been a coach for a long time. Watch the players he actually recruited in the next few years.

Again Tim Lester is a great offensive coordinator who was working with a true freshman and a non scholarship player. What could he have done at Oregon?

Again we do not have ACC talent and if anyone thinks that they are drinking Kool Aid{sorry but so stupid} Coach Shafer was trying to get us there henceforth his asking for extension.

So we will all see how it turns out but you should read about Frost a little more and realize he is concerned about his career not our scholar athletes as is the new athletic director.
Jake Crouthamel come back to us.

We made a bad decision is my belief and Coyle took the easy way out. Good luck, but you hurt a lot of coaches and players that cared. I hope it is all worth it to your career path

God bless Scott Shafer and people like him as they are the minority who really care about the athletes and not their careers.

 

[Ottoble]

I like reading the board but hardly ever post as there are so many detractors who feel they are being attacked if someone does not agree with them.

I am one who still feels Scott Shafer was the right choice for head coach. I believe he was right to look for an extension of at least two years so he could look at continuity. Unfortunately it was not granted. The pressure of knowing he would be fired I believe led to some erratic decision making after game 6 and on the field frustration. A few calls at USF and Virginia and we could have been 5-1 without our starting quarterback.
I know it did not happen as you will all remind me. His hiring of George McDonald was not a great decision but at the time everyone thought it was wonderful. Dreams of the Florida pipeline.

Tim Lester is a very good offensive coordinator who looked at quarterbacks like AJ Long, Womack , Culpepper and Scott to be the exact type of quarterback Oregon employs. He also brought in skilled h-backs and a good running back in Fredericks. Some of the young offensive lineman will also be very good.

The defense was very questionable and thin again this year. When you have 205 lb. linebackers and rush ends who cannot stop the run you are in trouble. Your defensive backs are small and run 4.8 to 4.9 forties necessitating them dropping off of receivers or pressing the line and getting beat. Playing true freshmen and sophmores who have had very little time in the weight room or practice reps will never get it done. These are not 4 and 5 star kids who may be nineteen or twenty years old.

Unfortunately we will never get many of these kids but I believe Scott Shafer was on the right track and especially last year brought in some really good kids who bought into him and his staff and will develop into really good college players. Some will say he should have brought in more jc players but again the really good jc players are pipelined to other schools not SU.

So getting way to long but have been a SU fan since 1959 and will always be but the transition to the ACC was a pure money grab which benefitted neither sport. comparison who our conference schedule would have been in conference USA. It doesn't take a genius to see what schedule will always be more favorable.

Jekelih, Cuse Legacy, Tomcat and others thank you for being so objective unfortunately you are never the majority anymore.

GO SU beat BC and god bless you Scott Shafer you are a victim of money and sports and integrity almost always loses.

I agree with you and particularly like you post as it was pregame

 

[OrangeAl]

"I have no idea what the Kool Aid quip means." - You

...and no, it literally means to blindly follow someone without questioning them (i.e. our AD), usually as part of a group (i.e. popular opinion on this site) - hence the derivation of the term from cult suicides. So, I'm still not convinced that you have grasped the concept yet, but what else is new?

1. Yeah, that's very obvious. You very clearly don't fully grasp the meaning of the term.
2. You could say that wanting to keep him would be drinking the kool aid if you can find a large group (i.e. popular opinion on this site) - hence the derivation of the term from cult suicides - that was in favor of keeping HCSS. As per the poll taken and the constant screaming for his head, that group doesn't exist. As it stands, the pro HCSS crowd is pretty small and very much leaderless.

Easy there, buddy. Your use of the term doesn't exactly fit the circumstance. Perhaps you should apologize to the poster you insulted several times.

 

[Chip]

Want to say why?

Because all Coyle cares about is that he does a good job at the school that just hired him.

Clearly a narcissist.

Adding this to my list.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Funny just got home and do not think some people understand at all and will end with this. I will never know Mark Coyle and will still keep my tickets and love SU, but Scott Shafer was building something but was cut short. We are and will always be a mid level ACC program. We will never contend for championships but that is okay.
We took a lot of money.

To belittle Scott Shafer and his coaching staff is ridiculous. They are a great staff who graduated kids and were bringing in great kids that we could be proud of. He should have been given more time . He was respected by other coaches in the ACC and would have been a coach for a long time. Watch the players he actually recruited in the next few years.

Again Tim Lester is a great offensive coordinator who was working with a true freshman and a non scholarship player. What could he have done at Oregon?

Again we do not have ACC talent and if anyone thinks that they are drinking Kool Aid{sorry but so stupid} Coach Shafer was trying to get us there henceforth his asking for extension.

So we will all see how it turns out but you should read about Frost a little more and realize he is concerned about his career not our scholar athletes as is the new athletic director.
Jake Crouthamel come back to us.

We made a bad decision is my belief and Coyle took the easy way out. Good luck, but you hurt a lot of coaches and players that cared. I hope it is all worth it to your career path

God bless Scott Shafer and people like him as they are the minority who really care about the athletes and not their careers.

This is not necessarily directed at SU44ever, but it is amazing how people confuse emotional immaturity with passion.

 

[qdawgg]

Funny just got home and do not think some people understand at all and will end with this. I will never know Mark Coyle and will still keep my tickets and love SU, but Scott Shafer was building something but was cut short. We are and will always be a mid level ACC program. We will never contend for championships but that is okay.
We took a lot of money.

To belittle Scott Shafer and his coaching staff is ridiculous. They are a great staff who graduated kids and were bringing in great kids that we could be proud of. He should have been given more time . He was respected by other coaches in the ACC and would have been a coach for a long time. Watch the players he actually recruited in the next few years.

Again Tim Lester is a great offensive coordinator who was working with a true freshman and a non scholarship player. What could he have done at Oregon?

Again we do not have ACC talent and if anyone thinks that they are drinking Kool Aid{sorry but so stupid} Coach Shafer was trying to get us there henceforth his asking for extension.

So we will all see how it turns out but you should read about Frost a little more and realize he is concerned about his career not our scholar athletes as is the new athletic director.
Jake Crouthamel come back to us.

We made a bad decision is my belief and Coyle took the easy way out. Good luck, but you hurt a lot of coaches and players that cared. I hope it is all worth it to your career path

God bless Scott Shafer and people like him as they are the minority who really care about the athletes and not their careers.

So to summarize... not ok to belittle Shafer and staff but it's ok to belittle Coyle. Seems like a contradiction (hopefully there is no Jonestown reference in there). I see very little difference between your post and the fire Shafer Week 1 posts. Just different extremes.

 

[Scooch]

So to summarize... not ok to belittle Shafer and staff but it's ok to belittle Coyle. Seems like a contradiction (hopefully there is no Jonestown reference in there). I see very little difference between your post and the fire Shafer Week 1 posts. Just different extremes.

Apparently Coyle is Jake C., which is an insult. Jake, the guy who hired Mac and Pasqualoni. They guy who stuck by Boeheim when many ADs would have fired him after the probation. Jake had his negatives, but if Coyle accomplishes what Jake did we will be thrilled.

 

[wooddoc]

I have no idea what the Kool Aid quip means.

Bottom line is it's relationship to Jonestown.

 

[leftytg]

Funny just got home and do not think some people understand at all and will end with this. I will never know Mark Coyle and will still keep my tickets and love SU, but Scott Shafer was building something but was cut short. We are and will always be a mid level ACC program. We will never contend for championships but that is okay.
We took a lot of money.

To belittle Scott Shafer and his coaching staff is ridiculous. They are a great staff who graduated kids and were bringing in great kids that we could be proud of. He should have been given more time . He was respected by other coaches in the ACC and would have been a coach for a long time. Watch the players he actually recruited in the next few years.

Again Tim Lester is a great offensive coordinator who was working with a true freshman and a non scholarship player. What could he have done at Oregon?

Again we do not have ACC talent and if anyone thinks that they are drinking Kool Aid{sorry but so stupid} Coach Shafer was trying to get us there henceforth his asking for extension.

So we will all see how it turns out but you should read about Frost a little more and realize he is concerned about his career not our scholar athletes as is the new athletic director.
Jake Crouthamel come back to us.

We made a bad decision is my belief and Coyle took the easy way out. Good luck, but you hurt a lot of coaches and players that cared. I hope it is all worth it to your career path

God bless Scott Shafer and people like him as they are the minority who really care about the athletes and not their careers.

1) If what you say here is correct - that you possess unique insight that the vast majority of the Syracuse fan base does not - and that Shafer was in the midst of building something special and that Tim Lester is "a great offensive coordinator", then the real professionals tasked with identifying and hiring talent will be beating down the door to hire Shafer as head coach and Lester as an offensive coordinator. Surely those not emotionally invested in the wins and losses of the Syracuse program will be able to view the situation objectively and reach the same conclusions you do.

We'll see

2) Enough with the accusations of Kool Aid drinking. It is the kind of arrogant statement that has no place in constructive debate between adults. You should be able to rise or fall on the strength of your argument. To reduce yourself of claiming anyone who thinks differently from you is mindless means you've failed.

For a guy who started his first post with:

I like reading the board but hardly ever post as there are so many detractors who feel they are being attacked if someone does not agree with them.

you've done a wonderful job of exhibiting what you've decried.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Why can't we just say hooray for HCSS and his job of recruiting and building a family atmosphere? And then ALSO say Welcome to the new head coach of the Orange and Best of Luck to you Sir. Scott's gone, no amount of sour grapes will get home back, so just move on.