Syracuse football QB Eric Dungey is healthy for spring practice

[TheCusian]

That's perfectly fair and a great analogy. I'm just overly sensitive to the idea that anyone, especially in this situation, is acting in bad faith. I feel like that's always a lurking issue in message boards.

No - not bad faith. But perhaps reckless on twitter and on the radio from time to time.

 

[kcsu]

I recently had what i thought was a heart attack. It had the signs. I went to my GP who after giving me a resting test said yes heart attack. But i felt great climb mountains ski...
Went to the cardiologist at the local hospital for extensive testing. You name it. No heart attack he claimed gallbladder. Went to the surgeon who wasnt sure based on the scans.

Left and flew to the Mayo clinic to see the best. The results. Heart fine. Gallbladder fine. But i had a rare infection in my intestine. Bad. Three rounds of treatments no surgery and im Aok.
My two cents is that something as complex as a head injury should never be treated or its severity treated by anyone other than a specialist. The university should make it a priority. The liability issue plays both ways. 3 and out is out. It is outdated and not in line with recent findings. It might be that in many or some cases 1 concussion is enough or 4 isnt. A specialist is the only way to adequately judge. GP are great. But when it comes to serious health issues see a specialist and see the best if you can.

 

[orangepassion]

I can argue that a lot of the worst hits on QBs are in the pocket on blitzes. Teams are often more hesitant to blitz when the RB is a real threat to run. I think it depends on the situation and player. Mahoney,Watson, and Lamar Jackson ran plenty and didn't get hurt.

Time to stop running so many QB options. Huge emphasis on sliding or getting out bounds must happen this offseason. No more leaping over defenders. He is too valuable for our team (wait... some people apparently told me that DeVito would be a better option from the start, LOL). Watch film of Russell Wilson.

At the end of the day you can teach a man to fish but if he would rather dive into the lake and try to catch them by hand, that's on him. It seems like Dungey just has that mentality.

Happy to hear he will be back.

 

[AZOrange]

Now that this has been released, I can say that the rumors behind this situation were absolutely staggering. Sources as high as possible were confirming things that would be frustrating beyond belief for Syracuse fans.

This article, in a veiled manner, IMO confirms some of the things that I heard.

I had heard that this issue has been a big issue for Babers and was possibly part of the strife that we heard about in the late fall from some posters...that this situation needs a resolution or else. Can you confirm? TIA

 

[bcubs9497]

Now that this has been released, I can say that the rumors behind this situation were absolutely staggering. Sources as high as possible were confirming things that would be frustrating beyond belief for Syracuse fans.

This article, in a veiled manner, IMO confirms some of the things that I heard.

Yep.

 

[IthacaMatt]

you don't have to be an absolute expert on a given topic to opine on liability issues. it might be possible to argue that a person with less expertise would be more inclined to take a conservative position, but conversely you could probably argue that a less experienced expert may be inclined to take a more aggressive position to satisfy his client. .

Dude, I'm sorry but this is just a backward approach. It's not like we don't have neurologists in Syracuse. If we have a family doctor who has been too quick to pull the trigger on ending kids' careers and parents are giving the program crap about it, that's all the feedback you need.

I don't care what nepotism or "relationship" is keeping a family doctor in this position, but it's an invitation to be sued. I'm a lawyer. I don't do accounting. Stick to your specialty. Get a specialist. Don't dabble in areas where you are not qualified.

 

[OrangePA]

Understood. But again athletes choice and I don't think Eric's parents "need" him to play pro ball. A families agenda is their business not mine or anyone elses. That's my whole point, in Dungeys case nobody even knows what He has been through passed or failed, it's a ton of speculation, rush to judgement and doom and gloom.

Kid is cleared to play so play, his choice

Play!!!

 

[OrangePA]

Time to stop running so many QB options. Huge emphasis on sliding or getting out bounds must happen this offseason. No more leaping over defenders. He is too valuable for our team (wait... some people apparently told me that DeVito would be a better option from the start, LOL). Watch film of Russell Wilson.

At the end of the day you can teach a man to fish but if he would rather dive into the lake and try to catch them by hand, that's on him. It seems like Dungey just has that mentality.

Happy to hear he will be back.

I agree with this!!

We are no longer an option team - don't run Dungey!!!

Protect him - he is our most important offensive player!!

 

[orangehomer]

Dude, I'm sorry but this is just a backward approach. It's not like we don't have neurologists in Syracuse. If we have a family doctor who has been too quick to pull the trigger on ending kids' careers and parents are giving the program crap about it, that's all the feedback you need.

I don't care what nepotism or "relationship" is keeping a family doctor in this position, but it's an invitation to be sued. I'm a lawyer. I don't do accounting. Stick to your specialty. Get a specialist. Don't dabble in areas where you are not qualified.

first, this response is not really relevant to the post I made. you are sidestepping what I said to make a different point. what you are leaving out, and the assumption you and many other are making is that the doctors are "ruling kids out". I don't think the doctors are making that determination. I think they are merely making concussion diagnoses, and then the school is using those diagnoses to disqualify players. where have you read anywhere that the doctor is actually the one that is disqualifying players? it is an SU policy as far as we know. people are directing their anger against this doctor but no one here can clearly explain that he is actually the one that rules out players. the dungeys felt the need to make a press release that their kid is ready to play, yet nothing from the university as to whether he is actually cleared to play and my guess is that the kid never plays another down here.

 

[longislandcuse]

It has something to do with mocking the holy trinity. Same reason that demons leave 3 scratch marks on your back and come into your room at 3:00 AM.

Laying in bed reading some Cuse stuff before i pass out andddd now I'm wide awake.

 

[kirbivore]

It has something to do with mocking the holy trinity. Same reason that demons leave 3 scratch marks on your back and come into your room at 3:00 AM.

That's also the most common time for alien abductions

 

[RMH44]

That's also the most common time for alien abductions

That's nothing to make light of! Unless you've been abducted, you can't appreciate the horror one lives with for the rest of their lives ;-)

 

[bcubs9497]

Dude, I'm sorry but this is just a backward approach. It's not like we don't have neurologists in Syracuse. If we have a family doctor who has been too quick to pull the trigger on ending kids' careers and parents are giving the program crap about it, that's all the feedback you need.

I don't care what nepotism or "relationship" is keeping a family doctor in this position, but it's an invitation to be sued. I'm a lawyer. I don't do accounting. Stick to your specialty. Get a specialist. Don't dabble in areas where you are not qualified.

first, this response is not really relevant to the post I made. you are sidestepping what I said to make a different point. what you are leaving out, and the assumption you and many other are making is that the doctors are "ruling kids out". I don't think the doctors are making that determination. I think they are merely making concussion diagnoses, and then the school is using those diagnoses to disqualify players. where have you read anywhere that the doctor is actually the one that is disqualifying players? it is an SU policy as far as we know. people are directing their anger against this doctor but no one here can clearly explain that he is actually the one that rules out players. the dungeys felt the need to make a press release that their kid is ready to play, yet nothing from the university as to whether he is actually cleared to play and my guess is that the kid never plays another down here.

IthacaMatt, though not dead-on correct, is more right than you think. And that's all I will say about it.

 

[orangehomer]

IthacaMatt, though not dead-on correct, is more right than you think. And that's all I will say about it.

I've raised two reasonably simple questions so far in this thread:

1. do the SU doctors rule out players, or is it university policy after a certain number of diagnosed concussions?
2. has eric dungey been cleared by SU to play this spring?

 

[Ish88888]

first, this response is not really relevant to the post I made. you are sidestepping what I said to make a different point. what you are leaving out, and the assumption you and many other are making is that the doctors are "ruling kids out". I don't think the doctors are making that determination. I think they are merely making concussion diagnoses, and then the school is using those diagnoses to disqualify players. where have you read anywhere that the doctor is actually the one that is disqualifying players? it is an SU policy as far as we know. people are directing their anger against this doctor but no one here can clearly explain that he is actually the one that rules out players. the dungeys felt the need to make a press release that their kid is ready to play, yet nothing from the university as to whether he is actually cleared to play and my guess is that the kid never plays another down here.

Either way, the docs or the university is using information provided by a non specialist. Bad approach.

 

[orangehomer]

Either way, the docs or the university is using information provided by a non specialist. Bad approach.

oi vey

 

[SU in Hershey]

As a Family Practice physician, I have been reading this and all the Eric Dungey related threads with great interest due to the multifaceted views on this complex issue. I am finally chiming in to echo a few points and offer my own "take".
First of all, and maybe most importantly, I know Dr. Tucker. Although we have not conversed in quite some time, I have tremendous respect for him as a physician and a human being. If he told me that my son or daughter should not play their sport of choice, I would listen to his counsel. BUT...listening and heeding are two different things. If my child WANTED to continue to pursue the sport they love, I would absolutely seek an expert's opinion. I would do my due diligence and hopefully with the University's blessing and/or guidance, find an appropriate expert to consult. If that expert gave me a cogent argument as to why my child should or should not further pursue their passion, then that would be it. Getting more opinions until I found the one that I or my child "liked" would be counterproductive and maybe dangerous. As IthacaMatt pointed out, there are different levels of risk tolerance or aversion, so you have to accept the BEST answer you can get from the BEST expert you can find.
The interesting question orangehomer raises is: Who is making that decision? They should absolutely have the best qualified opinion at their disposal, but does that mean they follow the expert's opinion, or their own legal advisors' opinion(s)? If there is a disagreement, is there still a path to play, and how would that work? The nuances of a potential negotiation (towards a "release" from liability) between the school and the player and his or her family would be so difficult to flesh out in some sort of legal document, that it likely wouldn't hold up in court (criminal maybe, but not civil...IthacaMatt can correct me on this as he is the expert here).
Finally, at least for the moment anyway, the very diagnosis of concussions and their impact are still so nebulous yet so potentially devastating, I don't think one can develop an iron clad, everyone is happy, algorithm. To be asked, "If Eric Dungey takes one more hit to the head, could it have a negative impact on his health and well being in the future?" is an important question to try and give an appropriate response. But it is for him as an individual while facing the same risk for injury, but not necessarily consequence, as everyone else. Every player is one hit to the head, neck, back, knee, etc., from having their game, season, and/or career over, and maybe even their life, or at least what was to be their hoped-for quality of life. So how do we do right by Eric and every other member of the team?
Like I said, I find this whole discussion fascinating and vexing at the same time. I love SU sports, but fear for the players and their families, too. I am so happy to have people like bcubs9497 and bambrewer provide their insights, because it is a glimpse into a world I don't know. But I hope that like all true fans, at the end of the day, we recognize these are kids transitioning to be young men. They entertain us, and we are appreciative. But, they are people with lives to be lived, someday, away from SU and away from sports. They are not gladiators. They deserve to have their futures protected. But they, along with their families, also deserve a voice in this process. I hope this is ultimately what happens, if not now, then sometime soon.
Thanks for reading my ramblings...

 

[TheCusian]

I've raised two reasonably simple questions so far in this thread:

1. do the SU doctors rule out players, or is it university policy after a certain number of diagnosed concussions?
2. has eric dungey been cleared by SU to play this spring?

We have answers to both.

1. Dr's rule them out. 3 has been when they really start to ask the question. But it's all diagnosis and opinion (hence why the question of WHO is making that choice so important)

2. Didn't Eric's Dad say he's playing?

 

[texascpa]

Time to stop running so many QB options. Huge emphasis on sliding or getting out bounds must happen this offseason. No more leaping over defenders. He is too valuable for our team (wait... some people apparently told me that DeVito would be a better option from the start, LOL). Watch film of Russell Wilson.

At the end of the day you can teach a man to fish but if he would rather dive into the lake and try to catch them by hand, that's on him. It seems like Dungey just has that mentality.

Happy to hear he will be back.

Sliding should be eliminated. period.

 

[OrangeFast]

I also truly believe that if Dungey were not going to be playing that we would have seen a 5th year transfer QB. I don't think we have to worry about him not playing... Unless he takes another big hit. That being said I hope Tommy and Rex really get themselves ready.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Sliding should be eliminated. period.

Hits with the helmet to the head should result in instant ejection and a one game ban.

 

[Finwad32]

Hits with the helmet to the head should result in instant ejection and a one game ban.

Blatant hits to the helmet I agree. But, there's other elements to consider. There are times where things are moving so fast, and guys duck or dive or spin and the defender does not have enough time to react by moving his head out of the line of contact. Literally it happens too fast for your mind to diagnose and react.

It's not as simple as If X then Y.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Blatant hits to the helmet I agree. But, there's other elements to consider. There are times where things are moving so fast, and guys duck or dive or spin and the defender does not have enough time to react by moving his head out of the line of contact. Literally it happens too fast for your mind to diagnose and react.

It's not as simple as If X then Y.

And it is equally true that there are times when the QB is running with the ball and is going into a slide and the defender dives in head-first, knowing that the man is going down. We saw that happen to Eric a couple times in the past couple years.

 

[SU in Hershey]

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse of concussions-their diagnosis and management, but I thought that given the interest in the issue, and the fact that there are a lot of coaches, parents, referees, and athletes that use and peruse this board, that an educational reference might be nice.
There are multiple resources available and a quick "Google"- search will find many options, but I thought this was a particularly handy resource. It can also be viewed and used for educational credit for those that have that need. Also, there are similar activities for other states that can be linked in the drop-down at the left side of the page (for our many out-of-state Orange family...like me!).
I hope you find this interesting and informative. And for the sake of disclosure, I do not have any professional or financial link with this site. I am just passing on the information.

ConcussionWise New York - Concussion Wise

(Mods, if this is not appropriate or would be more useful in a different place, feel free to move it as you see fit.)

Thanks! Let's Go Orange!

 

[Ish88888]

Blatant hits to the helmet I agree. But, there's other elements to consider. There are times where things are moving so fast, and guys duck or dive or spin and the defender does not have enough time to react by moving his head out of the line of contact. Literally it happens too fast for your mind to diagnose and react.

It's not as simple as If X then Y.

So true. Imagine being a defender in today's college and pro game? The game is so fast, you go in for a solid hit between the numbers and by time you get there the offensive players head is at your "target" its impossible.